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Flash or anyone who knows about army structure in Victorian times. I'm researching the life of a local Lord who was killed in the Sudan in 1885. He was commissioned in the 7th Hussars in 1871 and transferred to the 16th Lancers in 1881. He was present at the battle of Ulundi in the Zulu War in 1879, but neither the 7th Hussars nor the 16th Lancers were in Zululand. He was described as being a Staff Officer or Adjutant to Maj-Gen Marshall. What were the duties of a Staff Officer or an Adjutant, presumably he wasn't leading cavalry charges against the Zulus ? Also how did an Officer in a Regiment that was not sent to a theatre of war end up there, did they volunteer or were they sent to gain experience ?

Necrophilia is when she he or it looks a bit dozy, and don't stick their hand out for the usual $5 bill. But it's any port in a storm. 'Kay, Sunny?

Mark

As no one as answered your question. In the Victorian army it was not unusual for officers to be away from their regiments for 8 months at a time each year. providing the Regiment was not on active service.

When the army decided to form an expeditionary force their was a rush of officer trying to get extranumery positions with the force especially if your own regiment was on Garrison duties in the UK or India. The Officers concerned would write to both the War Office or the Commander of the Expeditionary force pleading to be allowed to go. Often they would except any post or position

The two probably most famous were Winston Churchill and a feller called Colonel Frederick Gustav Barnaby.

Barnaby was probably the tallest man in the army being over 6' 4" and was the army champion boxer. He was reputed to be able to carry a pony under his arm.

Barnaby broke his regiments code of conduct by letting slip to a journalist an indiscretion by a fellow officer. The remainder of officers of the Royal Horse Guards snubbed him. The remainder of his career he went from expedition to expedition.

During this period he was famous for being the first man to cross the channel in a balloon. In the late 1870/early 80s he undertook to expeditions in Asia, writing two books in the process, both becoming best sellers

'A Ride To Khiva' (1876) and 'On Horseback Through Asia Minor' (1879) During this period he was a the Turkish General Staff during one of their frequent border wars with Russia.

However he came to a sticky end on the expedition to the Sudan. At the battle of Abu Klea (The Shortest battle in history - 16minutes) he was commanding one wing of a British Square. The Fuzz Wuzzies withdrew after attacking Burnaby's wing. Thinking hey were defeated he ordered his men to follow him after the Fuzzy Wuzzies. His misjudgement opened the wall of the square allowing the Fuzzy Wuzzies in. None got out though they were killed to a man by the Royal Sussex Regiment. Blame was placed on a broken Gardiner gun.

Arnie

The battle of Abu Klea, in which Burnaby was killed, was the one in which the subject of my question was killed too, the 4th Viscount St Vincent. Have you read Khartoum by Michael Asher, published in 2005 ? It gives a dramatic account of the battle and the deaths of Capt Lord St Vincent and Fred Burnaby.

This battle you were just talking about, Abu Klea, did that happen under Billy Hicks, before Gordon, or was that on the way to rescue Chinese Gordon under Kitchner?

If I may poke my nose in here. The battle in which Billy Hicks' army was annihiliated, El Obeid, took place in November 1883, Abu Klea was fought in January 1885 as an army marched across the desert to rescue Gen Gordon from Khartoum where he'd been besieged for 11 months.

The relief force was led by Gen Wolseley, Kitchener led the expedition 13 years later in 1898.

Gen Wolseley wasn't in direct command at Abu Klea. When his slow moving force received a message that Khartoum was on the verge of falling he sent a column across the desert under the command of Gen Sir Herbert Stewart. Stewart was mortally wounded a few days after Abu Klea in the battle of Abu Kru and died four weeks later.

Should of known you'd have all the facts of the case. I didn't know Wolseley was ever in the Sudan.

Just read a fascinating book "Triumph of the Sun" by Wilbur Smith. Deals with this, puts a lot of blame onto slow advance by river steamers. The Dervishes were apparantly quite well armed with Krupp guns which damaged the steamers.

Kitchener was allocated a £13 million budget which enabled him to buy Gatlings which weren't so prone to overheat as the Gardiners (possibly 6 barrels doing the work of 2) and Oh joy! Maxim guns. Developed in England, as we've discussed before, T-Dog. And re-train the Egyptians who came out trumps.

Incidentally, I was attached to Abu Klea Battery, 45 Medium Regiment in Grafenwohr, Bavaria. This was officially US territory, but they paid us to Garrison it and keep the peace. 1972-73.

The river route down the Nile to Khartoum is an extremely long one. About 200 miles from Khartoum it turns north east, thus making it twice as long as the overland route, which was the one taken by Gen Stewart in January 1885 in order to reach the city before it fell to the Dervishes. As we know the column was two days too late in getting to Khartoum.

As we know the column was two days too late in getting to Khartoum.

WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO MUCH OR WOULD THEY HAVE JUST JOINED GORDEN.

Good question, the Dervish army was about 50,000 men, and I think Sir Garnet had only about 4,000.

The column sent across the desert numbered about 1300 when it reached Khartoum and was never intended as a relief force. It's aim was to show the Dervishes the British were coming and hopefully prevent an assault on the city by giving the impression that the main body of troops was just a day or two away. Had they arrived two days earlier the plan might have succeeded.

Mark, get your library to lend you "Triumph of the Sun" about Khartoum.

It will amaze your librarians that you're abandoning your plain brown wrapper material, but it does have one or two porny bits in, which I of course hastily skipped over. Except for research. My God! Page 16. Thought that was illegal........How the hell does a camel...? They didn't do that in Canada, surely?

Nudge nudge. Say no more,catch my drift, Squire?

An intresting point about Burnaby was that he was missing presumed killed. By that time the story was startedabot the Gardiner jamming. causing the suare to be broken.

It was easier to tell their Lordships the Gardiner story than the truth about an officer who should not have been their in the first place, dis obeying orders and leaving the square. Of coarse the question was asked how do you lose someones body inside a square. His body together with some of the men he led were found later about 200 yards from the site of the square.all speared to death.

Both the Gardiner or the Gatling could produce the aimed fire power of an Infantry Battalion in Square armed with Breech loders. Certainly at Abu Klea the execution was done by the rifle. hence the British Generals (of Haigs ilk anyway) right up to 1915 thought that the machine gun would never replace the Infantry firing in company volley fire

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