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Current Events : An ounce of sense beats the EU by a mile
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 Message 1 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5  (Original Message)Sent: 9/11/2007 6:47 PM
The EU have announced their 30 campaign to forcibly convert GB to metric has failed. We can carry on with feet and inches, pounds and ounces, yards and miles indefinately. I'll down a pint to common sense tonight. 


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Reply
 Message 41 of 55 in Discussion 
From: bowleggedSent: 10/16/2007 5:07 PM
My favorite accomplishment of George Washington:
As a young man employed as a surveyor for the Governor of Virginia, he was one of the first to recognize "the forks of the Ohio" for its strategic military significance; the location would eventually become Pittsburgh.

My least favorite accomplishment of George Washington:
He ordered the US Army to put down the Whiskey Rebellion in order to enforce a federal tax on corn whiskey.

I guess he had his own personal motivations, as at the time, he was one of the leading distillers of whiskey in the US.

Reply
 Message 42 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 10/16/2007 10:12 PM
Bow how far is Fort Necessity from Pitt?  Is it still there?

Reply
 Message 43 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/17/2007 4:59 AM
Bow, Washington LED the Army against the Whiskey distillers.  They refused to pay taxes on their product and they had to be put down.

Reply
 Message 44 of 55 in Discussion 
From: bowleggedSent: 10/17/2007 4:29 PM
BigSnow,

Fort Necessity is still there, or should I say - the reproduction of Ft. Necessity. It is located in the Laurel Highlands region of south west Pennsylvania, about 1-1/2 hrs drive from Pittsburgh. It's located in a very scenic part of the state, not far from Frank Lloyd Wright's "Fallingwater" house, and also close to the site of the Jumonville battle - the one that started the French and Indian War (Seven Years' War).

Here's a link to info about Fort Necessity:

http://www.nps.gov/fone/

Lew,

The whole Whiskey Tax debacle really showed Washington at/near his worst. The Feds insisted on collecting only cash payments, when most of the folks in that region only dealt in barter - there were no banks anywhere near them, and it would've cost them more to travel to pay the taxes than the actual tax amounts. Again, I bring up Washington's conflict of interests in this matter. More to follow, gotta run...

Reply
 Message 45 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 10/18/2007 3:24 AM
Bow thanks for the lead sonds like it would be in interesting trip foracouple of days.  Leaves are turning too so timing is great.
 
A twist of fate for Washington he was in command when the leader of the French Garrison was killed, starting the French & Indian War fighting for the Brits and commander of American forces whe winning thewar against them.

Reply
 Message 46 of 55 in Discussion 
From: bowleggedSent: 10/18/2007 3:42 PM
Yes, George Washington was a young, inexperienced Colonel of Virginia Militia at the time. And despite the fact that he had practically grown up in the woods and wilds of Virginia, and surely must've known the ways of the Natives, he found himself pretty much powerless when Half-King split Jumonville's head open with his war club after he had surrendered to Washington. Obviously, the Virginians (British) had entirely different motives in mind than their Native allies when it came to warfare. The Indians could care less about the affairs of state in Europe. Warfare to them was all about local pride and retribution, and Half-King had a serious personal ax to grind against the French and their Indian allies. I suppose one can find a comparison between that situation and the current one in Iraq, if one cares to do so. Personally, I think it is simply the nature of warfare, and one could find examples of this in much of the history of armed conflict.

Reply
 Message 47 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/19/2007 5:40 AM
My people never paid no taxes on their whiskey neither.  Still don't.

Reply
 Message 48 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 10/19/2007 6:56 AM

no you remember this case sunday??

There's still no formal apology from the Bush Administration, but some members of the U.S. government apologized to Maher Arar Thursday.

Syrian-Canadian Arar Mahar, right, testifies via video conference before a House Joint Oversight Hearing on 'Rendition to Torture: The Case of Maher Arar.' Thursday, Oct. 18, 2007, in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP / Kevin Wolf)
Syrian-Canadian Arar Mahar, right, testifies via video conference before a House Joint Oversight Hearing on 'Rendition to Torture: The Case of Maher Arar.' Thursday, Oct. 18, 2007, in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP / Kevin Wolf)

The apology came from members of a U.S. House of Representatives subcommittee looking into the case of the Syrian-born Canadian who was deported in 2002 from the U.S. to Syria where he was tortured for more than ten months.

Arar did not personally go to Washington. He would likely have been turned away at the border because he is still on a U.S. terrorism watch list.

Instead, he made a statement via video conference from Ottawa.

The 37-year-old Canadian told American politicians about the ordeal he faced after the U.S. sent him to Syria.

Arar told the American legislators the Syrians placed him in a small coffin-like cell, beat him with shredded cables, and tortured him regularly.

"Life in that cell was hell. I spent 10 months and 10 days in that grave," Arar said.

In response, Bill Delahunt, a Democrat on the joint congressional committee said bluntly: "Let me personally give you what our government has not: an apology."

Another member said that the U.S. should be "ashamed" of its actions, but Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, defended the practice of extraordinary rendition.

"That is no excuse to end a program which has protected the lives of hundreds of thousands if not millions of American lives," said Rohrabacher.

Under extraordinary rendition, the U.S. ships off suspected terrorists to third countries for interrogation, where suspected terrorists are allegedly tortured. The U.S. denies that Arar was a victim of extraordinary rendition. Instead it argues that the Canadian citizen was deported to Syria under its immigration laws.

Arar told the subcommittee members that the pain from the torture was so great that he told Syrian authorities whatever they wanted to hear. At one point he falsely told them that he was involved with al Qaeda and had gone to Afghanistan.

"Let me be clear: I am not a terrorist, I am not a member of al Qaeda or any terror group. I am a father, a husband, and an engineer. I am also a victim of the immoral practice of extraordinary rendition," he said.

The Syrians released Arar without charges and he was returned to Canada. The Harper government apologized to Arar for Canada's role in helping U.S. authorities in the lead-up to his deportation to Syria. He was given $10 million in compensation.

The Bush administration still has not apologized, but has instead tried to quash Arar's attempts at bringing the matter before U.S. courts. Arar says the U.S. government's refusal to allow the legal system deal with his case is a continuation of the psychological abuse he's confronted since his ordeal began.

"The abuse is still on going because they have not allowed me to pursue justice in the courts," Arar said.

Arar's ordeal began on Sept. 26, 2002, when he stopped over in New York while returning from a vacation. American border guards detained the Canadian and authorities later sent him via private jet to Syria.

An inquiry in Canada found that the RCMP incorrectly told American authorities that Arar was an Islamic fundamentalist. They also gave other incriminating but incorrect information about Arar to the U.S. The inquiry found that the Mounties actions likely led to Arar's arrest and deportation, and it also cleared him of any terrorist links.

Legal experts in the U.S. say the government in that country is violating a 1998 law which specifically prohibits it from sending people to countries where they are likely to be tortured. The Bush administration has claimed that it gets assurances from countries that prisoners handed over to them will not be tortured.

language=javascript>var _hbEC=0,_hbE=new Array;function _hbEvent(a,b){b=_hbE[_hbEC++]=new Object();b._N=a;b._C=0;return b;}var hbx=_hbEvent("pv");hbx.vpc="HBX0100u";hbx.gn="ehg-ctv.hitbox.com";hbx.acct="DM551230O5NE71EN3;DM561030KMRC71EN3";hbx.pn="arar_apology_071018";hbx.mlc="/msn/MSNHome/story;/msn/MSNHome/story";hbx.pndef="title";hbx.ctdef="full";hbx.hc1="arar_apology_071018";hbx.fv="3";hbx.lt="auto";hbx.dlf="n";hbx.dft="n";hbx.elf="n";</SCRIPT> language=javascript1.1 src="http://www.ctv.ca/mar/hbx/hbx.js" defer></SCRIPT>

Reply
 Message 49 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 10/19/2007 9:28 PM
PBA there could be one brutal reply.
 
The guy knows what Syria's like. He's got Canadian citizenship. Make your mind up.Do you want to be Canadian or Syrian? Why had he gone on holiday back to Syria?
 
I know it's tough, but these are troubled times.And one case. What about the thousands who do return, stuffed with US or Canadian dollars, mucking up your exchange rates (in the UK in the '60s you could only take £60.00 with you)
 
1 swallow doesn't make a summer.I'll admit this went badly wrong. But are you going to relax all controls because of one error?
 
 

Reply
 Message 50 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 10/20/2007 5:49 AM
I DON'T THINK THAT HIS VACATION WAS IN SYRIA. IT WAS JUST THAT HE WAS PASSING THROUGH THE STATES, PROBABLY CATCHING A CONNECTED FLIGHT.. HE MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN COMING FROM THE ISLANDS. IT REALLY STILL BOILS DOWN TO IT WAS THE RCMPS FAULT. THE TOP MOUNTIE HAD TO RESIGN.
IT COST THE TAX PAYERS HERE 10 MIL PLUS LEGAL COSTS.

Reply
 Message 51 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 10/20/2007 3:59 PM
See your point PBA. Still, he was Syrian therefore guilty.

Reply
 Message 52 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/20/2007 8:38 PM
The Canadian authorities told us this guy was an Islamic Fundamentalist and on our terrorist watch list so we nailed him.  Find out he's Syrian and we send him to that place, where he is mistreated by his own people.  So what we have is the Canadians lying to us, and the Syrians torturing one of their own.  How does that require an apology from the US or anyone in it ?  Any individual apologies by the Dems is simply grandstanding. 

Reply
 Message 53 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/20/2007 8:44 PM
Bow, re #44.  It is true that the locals used the barter system for most of their dealings but the Feds wanted specie.  Did O'Shay & his people really think they could pay their taxes in produce? 
 
 
 
ps.  I can't remember the post board or # for the extrapolation debate, I have been thinking about it (I have lots of time. being ill and confines to bed) and am ready to bring it up again.  Shall we follow Robert's Rules of Order or the American version of proper debate (aka mud wrasslin)?

Reply
 Message 54 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 10/20/2007 11:58 PM
THE TOP MOUNTY GOT THE CAN OVER IT LEW. THAT AND THE $2100.00 BUCKS HE CHARGED US FOR A PAIR OF BROWN MOUNTIE BOOTS PUT ME OFF HIM.

Reply
 Message 55 of 55 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/22/2007 5:04 AM
$2100.00 for a pair of boots?  Sheba must be going nuts!!

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