MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The History Page[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Message Boards  
  For New Members  
  On This Day....  
  General  
  American History  
  Ancient History  
  British History  
  Current Events  
  European History  
  The Civil War  
  War  
  World History  
  Pictures  
    
    
  Links  
  Militaria Board  
  Cars/Motorcycles  
  
  
  Tools  
 
General : Vive le legion Etranger
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191  (Original Message)Sent: 12/3/2008 6:57 PM
Life is getting harder for the poor, put-upon British male. Really, just how many Robert Peston two-ways can a man take? If only one could forget it all and start again.
 

By Neil Tweedie
Last Updated: 6:49PM GMT 03 Dec 2008

French Foreign Legion; The French Foreign Legion - the last option for those desperate to escape the UK
The elite men-only fighting force draw troops from all over the world Photo: AP

There is a way, of course �?one tried and tested over 180 years. And it’s dead romantic, too. The Legion Etrangere, zee French Foreign Legion.

As every fan of Beau Geste, March or Die and Carry On Follow That Camel knows, the Legion is an elite fighting force, drawing its men (no women allowed) from all corners of the world and touched by glamour.

Formed in 1831 by Louis Philippe to enforce French rule in newly-acquired Algeria, it developed into a collective exercise in convenient amnesia, acquiring a reputation as a haven for cut-throats, crooks and sundry fugitives from justice. Few questions were asked of new recruits, making it an ideal repository for the scum of the earth. And with the scum came the romantics, men searching for a way to dull the pain of doomed love.

Well, that was how Hollywood portrayed it. Cue matinee idol being asked why he has subjected himself to a life of brutal discipline, sand and sunburn. "To forget," says he, drawing on his Gitane and staring longingly into the distance amid a haze of blue smoke.

Reality is a bit different. France’s colonial empire may have disappeared, save for the odd outpost, but the Legion lives on. Almost 7,700-strong, it still operates around the world and gets into regular scrapes in Africa. While Frenchman make up most of the officer corps, enlisted men are predominantly drawn from outside France. The Legion’s image as a haven for ne’er-do-wells is largely out of date. Now, aspiring recruits are subjected to detailed background checks via Interpol.

"We don’t accept the hardened criminals any more, the murderers or rapists," says Capt Samir Benykrelef, "so this makes our job easier."

But there is still a hint of romance: all recruits must assume a new name on joining the Legion. This is because some recruits do indeed want a new start and new identity, and it is fairer to make all new Legionnaires undergo the same process. Soldiers can revert to their real identities after a year.

So, what does the Legion give the lucky entrant? A hard time, mainly.

Before being awarded the kepis blanc, the famed white cap of the Legion, recruits must endure a severe training regime which can involve punching and kicking. All recruits have to speak in French �?even if they can’t. Even swearing must be in French, and there is a lot of that.

New recruits get about £1,000 a month and a shiny new rifle, which they are supposed never to leave on the battlefield. One practice popular in the main French army at certain times �?surrendering �?is not encouraged in the Legion, members of which are routinely expected to fight to the death. The good news is the wine. The Legion has its own vineyards in Provence which provide the main ingredient for regimental get-togethers.

After three years service, a legionnaire may apply for French citizenship. There is a quicker, more painful way way: a soldier wounded in battle may apply for citizenship under a provision known as "Français par le sang versé" ("French by spilled blood").

Some 140 nationalities are represented in the Legion, the motto of which is Legio Patria Nostra (The Legion is our Homeland). Composition changes with time, recruitment tending to thrive in countries experiencing economic and social stress. Traditionally, Germany has been a big provider of legionnaires �?somewhat ironically given the Legion’s bloody roll in two world wars. Currently, eastern Europe is a fertile recruiting ground, together with Latin America. Brits, too, have played their part, but there was embarrassment recently when it emerged that many British applicants were failing selection due to endemic unfitness.

If some NCOs in the Legion are to be believed, the whole corps is becoming a bit soft and girly. Improved conditions and greater professionalism have in recent years resulted in more middle-class recruits.

Cpl Buys Francois, 43, a South African legionnaire who joined 11 years ago, says: "We call the new entrants Generation PlayStation because they’re so soft. Now we’re taking the ex-husbands running from alimony, and all these guys with university degrees."



First  Previous  29-43 of 43  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 29 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 6:36 PM
Mark well done! A quick dig from Google taught me this:

I posted what I had learned on the Great War Forum www.1914-1918.org/forum and very quickly received replies. One member told me that Percy was in Platoon II, A Company, 17th (Service) Battalion, Manchester Regiment, and posted a photo of his platoon. Another could tell from the Labour Corps number that he was one of the original members of the Labour Corps which formed on 25 February 1917, and a member of 70 Coy. This unit served building and maintaining roads for military use in France 1917-18.

How was a Trench built?

In my day you went to stage 1 which was a shell scrape. Literally just the length of your body, facing the enemy, and all it was designed to do was to get you below the earth's crust

Stage 2 was a 2 man slit, 4' odd deep 6 ft L-R, 1 1/2 feet wide with a shelf 1 ft below -a  "fire step". narrowness is the prevent shell splinters whizzing round inside easily. Fire step is to hold spare mags and act as an elbow rest.

Now at this stage your defences are taking shape. Coy Comd details section positions (3 per sect) and personally sites the GPMGs.,  Platoon commander spitlocks each rifleman's trench (2 man per trench) and leaves them to get digging. There should be three trenches front, HQ trench behind, then 2 more trenchesd then single reserve trench.

That's at the end of day 1.

Day 2 (if you're staying) you dig one sleeping bay at each end of the trench angles at 45 deg towards the enemy (this stops them shooting down the length of the bay if you're unlucky with a night attack)

You then go back and help coy HQ dig their own trenches, including mortar baseplate, kitchens, latrines,. Eating is normally in your own fire trench, and you alternate returning to collect meals.

OK that's a fairly modern Infantry type situation.

But in WW1 as time went on the series of 3 front line fire trenches were interconnected (with zigzags to stop enemy shooting down the width of your trench) then "saps" -  corridors - would be dug to link the forward trenches to the row behind.

And then when time permitted more and more digging was done to make multi man sleeping bays, and the original series of 3 fire trenches linked to create a continuous line, until eventually the first platoon frontage of 300 yds stretched from Belgium to Switzerland.

I know Chinamen were used a lot to build these final systems, and also the Germans planning the defensive battle concreted their postions, wheras we always touting the continuous attack wer far less comfortable.

So Mark, basically trenches started within the Company (120 men) in the early days of the war but were then enlarged under Brigade (3,000 men) and Division (100,000 men) resources as the war progressed.


Reply
 Message 30 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/7/2008 8:09 PM
Thanks. I've long had the impression that the Labour Corps was for men who'd failed as infantrymen or as you said a punishment posting.  

Reply
 Message 31 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 12/7/2008 8:54 PM
well as I understood it,  Green peace was giving the French military a hard time, during a training excersise. harassing the the French troops. France warned them to stay out of her terriorty, and if they didn't then she would take measures against them. Green peace didn't listen. to answer your question Flash, and I think you already know the answer
 
IT WASN'T IN FRENCH TERRITORY IT WAS IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS WHERE GREEN PEACE WAS PROTESTING FRANCE SETTING OFF NUKE EXPLOSIONS. AN ARMED PARTY OF FRENCH BOARDED THE GREENPEACE SHIP ALSO IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS AND TRIED TO DESTROY ALL THE EVIDENCE OF IT TO THE MEDIA BUT FILM FOOTAGE WAS HIDE AND THEN SHOWN TO THE WORLD.
FRANCE WAS BREAKING INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND GOT CAUGHT AT IT SO THAT'S WHY THEY WENT AFTER THE SHIP IN HARBOUR.
 

The sinking of the Rainbow Warrior, codenamed Opération Satanique[1], was an operation by the "action" branch of the French foreign intelligence services, the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure (DGSE), carried out on July 10, 1985. It aimed to sink the flagship of the Greenpeace fleet, the Rainbow Warrior in the port of Auckland, New Zealand, to prevent her from interfering in a nuclear test in Moruroa.

Fernando Pereira, a photographer, drowned on the sinking ship. Two French agents were arrested by the New Zealand Police on passport fraud and immigration charges. They were charged with arson, conspiracy to commit arson, willful damage, and murder. As part of a plea bargain, they pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years, of which they served just over two.

The scandal resulted in the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, and the subject remained controversial. It was twenty years afterwards that the personal responsibility of French President François Mitterrand was admitted.

 

Reply
 Message 32 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 9:11 PM
I certainly believe it was a punishment posting for Officers and Senior ranks. But according to that Google extract it was for people who were physically unfit too.
 
You'll notice the reference to a "Service Battalion" of the Manchesters. This is no disgrace this was the description of wartime only Battalions of a Regiment. For example a peacetime Regular Regiment was often only 2 Battalions, one, say serving in India, the other at the UK Depot recruiting, training and sending new men to the operational Battalion and Officers and NCOs would be rotated home to pass their skills on to recruits.
 
But in wartime those regular battalions sent experienced officers and NCOs to form cadres (nuclei) of the new service battalions.
 
Take my old example of The Durham Light Infantry. In WW1 2 Regular battalions and 66 Service Battalions.

Reply
 Message 33 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 9:18 PM
#31
 
 Green peace didn't listen. to answer your question Flash, and I think you already know the answer
 
Wot do you mean my bleedin' question Guv? Never asked a single one did I? Only bleedin' love the French don' I?
 
Least Sean an' me didn't settle down within thousands of the great steamin' garlic encrusted faggots like you an' Magna.

Reply
 Message 34 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 9:21 PM
#32
 
BTW those Indian postings could be 14-20 years and Privates' wives drew lots to be allowed to join.
If lost it could be prostitution or death from starvation.

Reply
 Message 35 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFenian_soldierSent: 12/8/2008 10:23 AM
Ref#31 Oh here we go again. DGSE use the Legion in order to accomplish it's mission.  we have a groupe in the 6eme REG called SAF, they are equal to what the US has, called Navy SEALS. second  the water s Green peace were harassing Freench troops were French waters, not International. just for the record Moruroa  was also the home of the 5eme RE. a Legion Regt. and it's French waters.
as for the 2 French agents, one was a legionnaire from our SAF team, the other was a DGSE agent. out side of our SAF Bldg, is a granite rock with a inscribe about the attack of the rainbow warrior on it, honoring that attack.
 
please you only know half the story.

Reply
 Message 36 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/8/2008 7:28 PM
Ref # 32. It's interesting what you say about the number of battalions in Co. Durham; when I did a local history course I was told the county that had the largest population growth in the 19th century was Co Durham, Staffordshire was second.  

Reply
 Message 37 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/8/2008 7:55 PM
Yes I can believe it, go say to Tyne and Wear. You've got Newcastle, Jarrow Southshields, Sunderland, Middlesborough, West Hartlepool (home of Andy Capp and look at the cranes in the drawings there) just in 2 river estuaries. Steel, coal, shipyards, and a flourishing fishing industry within yards to feed it.
 
In the time of your studies (and in our youth) co Durham was of course a very big county, SW Barnard castle, SE Thirsk, North, Morpeth, NE Berwick, West Hexham.
 
Staffs might have been the Canal and railway boom?  

Reply
 Message 38 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/8/2008 9:08 PM
Canals, railways, iron, steel, coal, pottery etc. Staffordshire was much larger prior to local government re-organization in 1974. We lost most of the Black Country to the newly created county of the West Midlands.  

Reply
 Message 39 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 12/8/2008 10:42 PM
Yes much of Northumberland and County Durham was lost to Tyne and Wear, and Westmorland and Cumberland to Cumbria.
 
Amusingly Shropshire was lost to Salop and West Midlands, then returned to Shropshire when Rutland was returned too.

Reply
 Message 40 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 12/9/2008 9:37 AM
Manchester and Liverpool, to name but two, were in Lancashire and for my generation, we'll always be 'Lanky lads' but now they have their own counties of Greater Manchester and Merseyside. Why don't they leave well alone?

Reply
 Message 41 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 12/9/2008 12:48 PM
A constituency is mean to be about 60,000 voters and the official reason is there were too many constituencies.
In practice there were 2 reasons. Big city constituencies vote labour, so if you wipe out the rural element you're more likely to get a labour vote.
 
Secondly labour hates tradition. They were very surprised by the outcries surrounding Salop, Rutland, Cumbria, Westmorland etc.
 
So they had to go to plan B. Infect all the livestock with BSE and make the farmers go broke by witholding compensation. And bring in the Asians

Reply
 Message 42 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/9/2008 7:12 PM
Much as it pains me to admit it Labour do have a built in advantage in the way constituencies are organized. The Conservatives need about a clear 3% lead in votes to win a majority, any less Labour will win more seats with fewer votes, as we saw in February 1974.

Reply
 Message 43 of 43 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 12/9/2008 8:24 PM
OK Mark.#42
 
 It pained you to admit it. But you did. Do you now not feel a sense of catharsis in yer conkers, a slight spring in your s scro.....no we won't go down that route, a magnetism in your mince, as years of pent up Labour apologism finally starts to shift rearward.
 
The Crucible of Conservatism awaits you with open arms...... 

First  Previous  29-43 of 43  Next  Last 
Return to General