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General : Isrrael Prepares for Iran Strike
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 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1  (Original Message)Sent: 12/5/2008 2:06 AM

IDF Preparing Options For Iran Strike 

Dec. 4, 2008
Yaakov Katz , THE JERUSALEM POST

The IDF is drawing up options for a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities that do not include coordination with the United States, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

While its preference is to coordinate with the US, defense officials have said Israel is preparing a wide range of options for such an operation.

"It is always better to coordinate," one top Defense Ministry official explained last week. "But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination."

Israeli officials have said it would be difficult, but not impossible, to launch a strike against Iran without receiving codes from the US Air Force, which controls Iraqi airspace. Israel also asked for the codes in 1991 during the First Gulf War, but the US refused.

"There are a wide range of risks one takes when embarking on such an operation," a top Israeli official said.

Several news reports have claimed recently that US President George W. Bush has refused to give Israel a green light for an attack on Iranian facilities. One such report, published in September in Britain's Guardian newspaper, claimed that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert requested a green light to attack Iran in May but was refused by Bush.

In September, a Defense News article on an early warning radar system the US recently sent to Israel quoted a US government source who said the X-band deployment and other bilateral alliance-bolstering activities send parallel messages: "First, we want to put Iran on notice that we're bolstering our capabilities throughout the region, and especially in Israel. But just as important, we're telling the Israelis, 'Calm down, behave. We're doing all we can to stand by your side and strengthen defenses, because at this time, we don't want you rushing into the military option.'"

The "US European Command (EUCOM) has deployed to Israel a high-powered X-band radar and the supporting people and equipment needed for coordinated defense against Iranian missile attack, marking the first permanent US military presence on Israeli soil," Defense News wrote. The radar will shave several precious minutes off Israel's reaction time to an Iranian missile launch.

In a related article at about the same time, TIME magazine raised the possibility that through the deployment of the radar, America wants to keep an eye on Israeli airspace, so that the US is not surprised if and when the IAF is sent to bomb Iran, a scenario Washington wants to avoid.

The US army sent 120 EUCOM personnel to Israel's Nevatim Air Base southeast of Beersheba to man the new radar.

Last week, Iran's nuclear chief Gholam Reza Aghazadeh revealed that the country was operating more than 5,000 centrifuges at its uranium enrichment plant in Natanz and would continue to install centrifuges and enrich uranium to produce nuclear fuel for the country's future nuclear power plants.

"At this point, more than 5,000 centrifuges are operating in Natanz," said Aghazadeh, who is also the head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran. This represents a significant increase from the 4,000 Iran had said were up and running in August at the plant.

The Islamic republic has said it plans to move toward large-scale uranium enrichment that will ultimately involve 54,000 centrifuges.

Israeli officials said last week that the drop in oil prices and the continued sanctions on Iran were having an effect, although they had yet to stop Teheran's nuclear program. The officials said that while Iran was making technological advancements, it would not have the necessary amount of highly-enriched uranium for a nuclear bomb until late 2009.

"There is still time and there is no need to rush into an operation right now," another Israeli official said. "The regime there is already falling apart and will likely no longer be in power 10 years from now."

The IAF was preparing for a wide range of options, OC Air Force Maj.-Gen. Ido Nehushtan recently said, adding that all it would take to launch an operation was a decision by the political echelon.

"The air force is a very robust and flexible force," he told Der Spiegel. "We are ready to do whatever is demanded of us."

On Monday, Teheran dismissed the possibility of an Israeli strike, saying it didn't take Israel seriously.

"We think that regional and international developments and the complicated situation faced by Israel itself will not allow it to launch military strikes against other countries," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi told reporters in Teheran, according to the Press TV Web site. "Israel makes threats to promote its psychological and media warfare," he said.



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 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 12/5/2008 9:48 AM
In the English civil war it was said.... if we win a hundred times, Charles will still be King, but if we lose once, we'll all be hanged. The same applies to Israel, if they win a dozen wars, the Arabs will still be there, if the Arabs win just one, there will be no Israel on Earth. What annoys me, is that the world has slowly distanced itself from Israel, in direct proportion to the relentless rise in Islam in the west. Islam has become the left's new 'victim' of the west, their new cause, a cause to be worshipped and surrendered to. Jews have found themselves in a unique position, that of being a people the left can justifyably be prejudiced and racist against, without a guilt trip. Israel has no choice but to knock out Iran's nuclear ambitions, as it's a matter of survival for them, as simple as that. You cannot let a certifiable maniac have a nuclear weapon. Problem is, there is not one nuclear facility in Iran, there are a few dozen and they are spread right across the country. The main ones are now protected by the latest Russian radar systems and and ground to air missiles. (seems they've forgot Beslan) It's going to be very difficult to strike out in one or two goes, if at all, but the longer they've waited, the more dangerous and difficult the mission has become. I think the US has placed its faith in a change of government in Iran, but it's not going to happen, as the mad mullahs have an iron grip on the nation. Iran will use it's weapon, if it gets one and it will then be wiped off the map by Israel.

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 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknametommytalldogSent: 12/5/2008 4:08 PM
Blessed are those who bless the Jews,  cursed are those who do not.  We will pay the Israelis to do the heavy lifting here.
 
T-Dog

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 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbertSent: 12/5/2008 8:24 PM
Have the Israelites anything that could reach Pakistan at the same time. Kill two birds with one stone.
Jimbert

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 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/5/2008 8:37 PM
If they can launch missiles from submarines, then yes.

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 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 12/6/2008 1:42 AM
In an earlier post the Israelies bombed a Syrian nuclear physility a few months back and were able to avoid detection by the Russian radar installed in Syria.  Has the radar been improved in the past few months I don't know, perhaps. I wouldn't be supprised if we were ahead of the ruskies too and have learned how to jam it.
Again in an earlier post the US has sold 1000 or so bunker buster bombs and an avoidence system and teachers on how to use the systm to Israel. 
The time is drawing near that Israel will have to do something.  Will bush be able to stop them or will he support them is what I would like to know.

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 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/6/2008 10:30 AM
Apparently Israel has three German built submarines so in theory if they have been adapted to carry long range missiles none of their enemies are out of range.

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 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 1:25 PM
Drop these on them
 


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Best pork barrel I've seen for a long time.


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 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknametommytalldogSent: 12/7/2008 3:20 PM
Mark, ref #7, well the Germans were the best at building subs eh?  Ooops, never mind I suppose it was the Brits again.
 
T-Dog

Reply
 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 12/7/2008 4:25 PM
Two of them were gifts from Germany, presumsbly to assuage their war guilt. Israel wasn't going to turn them down whether they were the best in the world or not.

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 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 12/7/2008 5:51 PM

I think the Israelies actually paid for one of them Mark.  They were built in German Yards.  Here is a link to the story "you vill read and you vill find interesting and you vill report back with a report".

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/sub/index.html


Reply
 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname3232flashman2008Sent: 12/7/2008 6:49 PM
  • Speed: 20 knots (37 km/h) submerged, 12 knots surfaced[2]
  • Depth: over 700 m (2,296 ft)[3]
    • Range:
      • 8,000 nautical miles (14'800 km, or 9'196 miles) at 8 knots (15 km/h)
    • Endurance: 3 weeks without snorkeling, 12 weeks overall

    German 212 class, superb stealth and shallow water. BUT read this from a post of mine and Google's to HWP

    I was fascinated to read a bit about Soviet cavitating head torpedoes. Just to show off my knowledge, ever put the wrong outboard with the wrong prop and notice it runs slowly then a high screaming noise as the shear pin goes for lunch? That's cavitation where the prop is trying to work in an air-bubble.

     
    But put that airbubble at the front of a torpedo and suddenly you've got incredible streamlining.
     
    Like 200 mph torpedos.
     
     
    Working on a starter prop then a rocket ignites.

    Apparently fired from standard 533mm torpedo tubes, Shkval has a range of about 7,500 yards. The weapon clears the tube at fifty knots, upon which its rocket fires, propelling the missile through the water at 360 kph [about 100 m/sec / 230 mph / 200-knots], three or four times as fast as conventional torpedoes. The solid-rocket propelled "torpedo" achieves high speeds by producing a high-pressure stream of bubbles from its nose and skin, which coats the torpedo in a thin layer of gas and forms a local "envelope" of supercavitating bubbles. Carrying a tactical nuclear warhead initiated by a timer, it would destroy the hostile submarine and the torpedo it fired. The Shkval high-speed underwater missile is guided by an auto-pilot rather than by a homing head as on most torpedoes.

    Has disadvantages

    • Once launched, it is impossible to steer. All design so far went into getting it stable enough to just go straight, and steering is something that will have to wait for future revisions.
    • You still need to keep the propeller on it to get it a good distance away from your submarine, so that when you fire the rocket, you won't end up hurting yourself.

    And, payoff time?

    In August of 2000, the Russian sub Kursk sank at sea with all hands lost. It is highly probable, but not yet confirmed by the Russians, that it sunk when a test of the Shkval went wrong. Most likely, the rocket ignited when the torpedo was still in the tube.


    Reply
     Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknamejamestrdSent: 12/8/2008 7:47 PM
    nothing in life is free

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