MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The History Page[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Message Boards  
  For New Members  
  On This Day....  
  General  
  American History  
  Ancient History  
  British History  
  Current Events  
  European History  
  The Civil War  
  War  
  World History  
  Pictures  
    
    
  Links  
  Militaria Board  
  Cars/Motorcycles  
  
  
  Tools  
 
General : Has the worm turned at last???
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbert  (Original Message)Sent: 1/1/2009 2:36 AM
From the BBC. Looks like someone had the guts to stand up against the EU dictating how Britain should run it's affairs.
Jimbert
 
Britain hands suspects to Iraqis 
 
Sapper Luke Allsopp and Staff Sgt Simon Cullingworth were killed in Iraq
Britain has handed over two Iraqis accused of murdering UK soldiers to the Iraqi authorities despite a European Court injunction against the decision.
The European Court of Human Rights had blocked the transfer of Faisal Al-Saadoon,56, and Khalaf Mufdhi, 58.
Defence minister Bob Ainsworth said the right action was taken but admitted the men could now face the death penalty.
Both are accused of murdering Staff Sgt Simon Cullingworth and Sapper Luke Allsopp in Iraq in March 2003.
Mr Ainsworth told BBC Radio 5 Live: "We had been put in an extraordinary position with this injunction. They were effectively asking us to do something illegal.
"We have no legal powers to hold these individuals and this was confirmed by the UK Court of Appeal.   We have to accept the death penalty is not illegal in international law, it's not illegal in Iraq where the alleged crime was committed
Bob Ainsworth
"We think it is the right decision that they face trial in Iraq where these crimes were committed."
He said it would not be fair to ask the people holding the men at the base in Basra to put themselves at risk by breaking the law.
He admitted that "in theory" the men could face execution but added: "We don't support the death penalty - we oppose it.
"At the end of the day we have to accept the death penalty is not illegal in international law, it's not illegal in Iraq where the alleged crime was committed."
Phil Shiner of Public Interest lawyers, who have opposed the transfer, said the men's families had been told to prepare for the handover earlier.
Appeal
The pair's lawyers had earlier argued that allowing them to stand trial in Iraq would violate both the European Convention on Human Rights and the 1998 Human Rights Act.
But three Court of Appeal judges had ruled that after midnight on Wednesday, when the UN mandate for British forces in Iraq expires, Iraqi police could go to the British compound in Basra and remove the prisoners.
On Tuesday, a judge in Strasbourg granted an interim injunction preventing the transfer until further notice.
Defence Secretary John Hutton said the Court of Appeal had ruled the men did not fall within the "jurisdiction" of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Mr Hutton said it would be a "breach" of "international law obligations" if UK continued to detain the men. 
 We should all welcome the fact that the Iraqi courts will now be able to establish the facts and for the course of justice to be followed
Defence Secretary John Hutton

UK fatalities in Iraq
He said: "The European Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg has asked the UK to retain custody in Iraq of Mr Al Saadoon and Mr Mufdhi when we have no legal power to do so.
"Compliance with Strasbourg requests would normally be a matter of course but these are exceptional circumstances."
In October 2006 a coroner ruled that Sapper Allsopp, 24, from north London, and Sgt Cullingworth, 36, from Essex were unlawfully killed by Iraqi military intelligence.
The men, who were in the 33 Engineer Regiment - a specialist bomb disposal unit of the Royal Engineers - were ambushed by militia, taken to an Iraqi military compound and shot.
The Court of Appeal judges dismissed claims that Mr Al-Saadoon and Mr Mufdhi's human rights would be infringed by being handed over to the Iraqi authorities to stand trial.
'Unprecedented'
Before their case reached the Court of Appeal it was rejected by two High Court judges who ruled they could be tried in Iraq, but said they were "seriously troubled" owing to the risk of execution.
Mr Hutton said Iraq's government had made assurances that the men would be treated humanely.
However the men's lawyer, Mr Shiner described the government's failure to observe the Strasbourg injunction as "extraordinary and unprecedented".
He predicted the government would "get a roasting" from the European Court of Human Rights for defying its order.
He said he had obtained a new High Court order to stop the transfer but said it would only apply if the men were still within the British base.
However a MoD spokeswoman said the transfer had already taken place.
Mr Shiner said he would be mounting a fresh legal challenge based on the government's breach of the injunction.
Mr Shiner said the government had acted in a "vindictive" manner.
"I am beginning to wonder why the relevant public servants dealing with this case appear to enjoy the prospect of my clients being hung with all the gruesome theatre that involves," he said.
 


First  Previous  2-8 of 8  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname--sundaySent: 1/1/2009 4:55 AM
Good for Mr. Ainsworth!

Reply
 Message 3 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 1/1/2009 10:30 AM
A good start to the New Year, we want more of our elected officials telling the EU enough is enough.

Reply
 Message 4 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHobbs410Sent: 1/1/2009 12:04 PM
When are you guys gonna adopt the euro?

Reply
 Message 5 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 1/1/2009 1:18 PM
Lookin' like de Amazin' Prez givin' you all de Kenyan Shillingi first.

Reply
 Message 6 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 1/1/2009 3:00 PM
Ref # 4. Very unlikely we ever will. The Conservatives are dead against and although Labour is less hostile they'll not adopt it as long as the voters are opposed, and we are opposed at the moment. 

Reply
 Message 7 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 1/1/2009 3:08 PM
We were quite happy with "roll your own currencies" like pieces of 8, doubloons, sequins until civil servants like Mark turned up.
 
You of course had to go and copy the Austrians.
 
Before decimalisation, our currency was abbreviated LSD.
Libra = Pound; Sestertius = shilling; Denarius = penny. Hence the poncy £ which is a gothic L

Reply
 Message 8 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFirstflashman1Sent: 1/1/2009 3:10 PM
We do not want the Euro. Labour do to destroy tradition.
just like we want HU back.

First  Previous  2-8 of 8  Next  Last 
Return to General