One for MarkGB

Jimbert

 

 

Edgehill Fight
Civil Wars, 1642

 

Naked and grey the Cotswolds stand
Beneath the autumn sun,
And the stubble-fields on either hand
Where Stour and Avon run.
There is no change in the patient land
That has bred us every one.
 
She should have passed in cloud and fire
And saved us from this sin
Of war--red war--'twixt child and sire,
Household and kith and kin,
In the heart of a sleepy Midland shire.
With the harvest scarcely in.

But there is no change as we meet at last
On the brow-head or the plain,
And the raw astonished ranks stand fast
To slay or to be slain
By the men they knew in the kindly past
That shall never come again--

By the men they met at dance or chase,
In the tavern or the hall,
At the j ustice-bench and the market-place,
At the cudgel-play or brawl--
Of their own blood and speech and race,
Comrades or neighbours all!

More bitter than death this day must prove
Whichever way it go,
For the brothers of the maids we love
Make ready to lay low
Their sisters sweethearts, as we move
Against our dearest foe.

Thank Heaven! At last the trumpets peal
Before our strength gives way.
For King or for the Commonweal--
No matter which they say,
The first dry rattle of new-drawn steel
Changes the world to-day!

 

 

 

 

Thanks JimBert.

Kipling's got a lovely rythm and meter to his poetry. Too right wing for modern academic approval.

Kipling is just about the only poet in which I have any interest.

I'd have thought you'd be a Browning fan, Mark. try his Rennaissance themed poems.

Got me through my English Lit 'A' levels.

I would dare to say you have a narrow mind to say this

 

Well, dare or not, I say you are a ponce.

What the hell's wrong with praising Browning? Have you ever read him?

So, b*gger off.

Flash, I have read John Browning.

 

T-Dog

As in .30 MG maintenance manual? Or better still, "headspacing the .50 BMG in 16 greasy motions - new bestseller"

 

No, T-Dog.

This is Robert Browning.

Flash, you Brits are so "civilized."

 

T-Dog DaDa, President for life, Tall Dog Lodge

Normal,

 

      Are you sure about that? The convention on secession  voted to stay within the Union and Gov. Jackson was forced out of the statehouse and set up shop somewhere else in the state. He made Sterling Price commander of the Missouri State Guards and his "government" was reconized by the Confederacy on Oct.30, 1861. However, the yankees set up their own government and it was reconized by the federal government. So, Missouri is sort of like Kentucky in that they say they were part of the Confederacy, but legally they were not. 

 

As you may have read, both Kentucky and Missouri proclaimed neutrality early in the war. In the case of Missouri, that neutrality was broken when US forces under General Nathaniel Lyons arrested the Missouri State Guard at their summer encampment, and imprisoned them in St. Louis. His forces then proceeded up the Missouri river to Jefferson City, forcing the State government into exile. This began a civil war between the Missouri State Guard and the United States forces. The Missouri government retreated to the town of Neosho in the southwestern corner of the state. The legislature went into a special session, and on 31 October 1861 adopted an Ordinance of Secession. On 28 November 1861 the Confederate Congress passed an Act admitting Missouri as the 12th state of the Confederacy.

 

http://www.confederateflags.org/FAQ/FOTCfaq4.htm 

 

Missouri's neutrality was tested in a conflict of over the St. Louis Arsenal. The Union Army under Nathaniel Lyon seized the arsenal and moved its supplies to Illinois. At the same time, Governor Jackson called up the Missouri State Militia under Brig. Gen. Daniel M. Frost for maneuvers in suburban St. Louis at Camp Jackson. These maneuvers were perceived by Lyon as an attempt to seize the arsenal. On May 10, 1861, Lyon attacked the milita and paraded them as captives through the streets of St. Louis and a riot erupted. Lyon's troops, comprised mainly of German immigrants, opened fire on the attacking crowd killing 28 and injuring 100.

The next day, the Missouri General Assembly authorized the formation of a Missouri State Guard with Sterling Price as its commander to resist invasions from either side (but initially from the Union army). William S. Harney, Federal commander of the Department of the West, moved to quiet the situation by agreeing to the Missouri neutrality in the Price-Harney Truce. However Abraham Lincoln overruled the truce agreement and relieved Harney of command and replaced him with Lyon. On June 11, 1861, Lyon, in a meeting with Jackson, demanded that Missouri honor Lincoln's demand for troops from the state. Jackson refused and Lyon said he would enforce the order. After Jackson was escorted from the lines, Lyon began a pursuit of Jackson and Price and his elected state government through the Battle of Boonville and Battle of Carthage (1861). Jackson and the pro-Confederate politicians fled the state and set up a government-in-exile recognized by the Confederacy, but powerless inside Missouri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_in_the_American_Civil_War

In the fall, Jackson's government set up a provisional capital and convened in the town of Neosho, Missouri. On October 28, the legislature took up a bill for Missouri's secession from the Union, citing various "outrages" committed against the state and the overthrow of its government by Lyon. The bill was passed on October 30 and on October 31, it was signed by Governor Jackson.

The Neosho Secession Ordinance has long been a source of mystery for historians due to the unusual circumstances surrounding it. Ironically, the authority to secede had been vested by the legislature in the State convention. It is unclear whether the legislature had the authority to secede without the direction of the convention. Questions remain unresolved to this day as to whether Jackson's secessionist government or Gamble's provisional government was the legitimate government of Missouri. Jackson supporters claimed their status as the popularly elected government of Missouri to bolster their legitimacy, whereas Gamble had control of the old state capitol and had also been placed in office by a body elected by the state to determine the state's place in the Union.

Perhaps the biggest mystery of Neosho is whether or not Jackson's legislature had a quorum to permit it to convene �?a mystery that has prompted many historians to dismiss the Neosho government as a "rump" legislature, though the evidence required to make a conclusive determination is scant.

The controversy exists for two reasons. First, surviving letters from earlier in the fall indicate that the vote was delayed until the end of October to obtain a quorum, which had been lacking. Second, the journals of the legislature that would contain that information disappeared sometime during the war. The Senate journal was rediscovered in recent years among artifacts at the Wilson's Creek National Battlefield, but the House journal has never been found.

[edit] Evidence

In addition to the Senate journal, evidence of a House quorum has been speculated about on several grounds. Records of the secession bill itself show that Speaker of the House John McAfee presided over the session that adopted the bill. Clerk of the House Thomas H. Murry's signature also attests to the document's engrossment. The bill is also known to have been sponsored in the House by legislator George Graham Vest.

Reports of a quorum and even vote totals for both bodies also appeared in some newspapers. Their reliability, however, is unknown. The Charleston Mercury reported the session as follows:

"The meeting of the Missouri State Legislature, which passed the ordinance of secession at Neosho on the 2d inst. Was well attended - a full quorum being present, including 23 members of the Upper and 77 of the Lower House; 19 of the former and 68 of the latter constitute a quorum. The ordinance of secession was passed unanimously, and without a dissenting voice. It was dispatched to Richmond by a special messenger to the President, leaving Memphis yesterday morning en route." (November 25, 1861)

One of the earliest historical accounts of Missouri's role in the Civil War written by former Confederate Col. John C. Moore, who also states that a quorum was present at the session:

"In every particular it complied with the forms of law. It was called together in extraordinary session by the proclamation of the governor. There was a quorum of each house present. The governor sent to the two houses his message recommending, among other things, the passage of an act "dissolving all political connection between the State of Missouri and the United States of America." The ordinance was passed strictly in accordance with law and parliamentary usage, was signed by the presiding officers of the two houses, attested by John T. Crisp, secretary of the senate, and Thomas M. Murray, clerk of the house, and approved by Claiborne F. Jackson, governor of the State."

The absence of a House record, however, will likely continue to surround the mystery of Missouri's secession ordinance until documentation, if any exists, is found.

Acting on the ordinance passed by the Jackson government, the Confederate Congress admitted Missouri as the 12th confederate state on November 28, 1861.[7]. The Jackson government subsequently named Senators to the Confederate Congress. It was driven into exile from Missouri after confederates lost control of the state and Jackson died a short while later in Arkansas. The secessionist government continued in exile, eventually setting up a legislature in Marshall, Texas until the end of the war. At the war's conclusion, the successors to the provisional government continued to govern the state of Missouri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_secession

 

So now here is my orginal statement...........................

Very interesting post Normal.

 

        Ok, here is my take on the subject. As you know in 1861 Governor Jackson called together a convention on secession. The convention president was Sterling Price, this convention, which to my mind represented the legal State of Missouri, voted AGAINST, secession from the United States. Jackson and Price, not liking the outcome, threatened to take the State over to the Confederacy reguardless of the vote. Jackson appointed Price the commander of the Missouri State Guards with orders to seize federal property in the state. General Lyons moved against the Confederates before this could happen and forced Jackson to abandon the state capitol.

      So he goes to Neosho and convenes another convention of like minded people and they pass a secession ordiance which is approved later on by the Confererate Congress. However, this  convention is not representative of the whole State and therefore it's ordiance, to my mind, is not legally binding. Kentucky and Maryland did much the same thing. I see it as an absence of a formal Ordiance of Secession that the other 11 states passed thru their duly elected Legislatures.