I was never there but was told this by my Sgt, in Borneo the terrorists wore jackets made out of blanket material, and often found dripping wet.

A bright Intelligence Officer found out these were a form of flak jacket, very effective against 9mm and also  partially against .223 M16 which was newly on issue to British forces.

Flash

 

I have never heard that it sounds a bit of a tall story, A bit like the wet blanket used in the wild west to stop .44 colt pistol

 

The one i saw dead and the others we captured in Malaya wore either olive green or camouflage shirts.

 

The  Armali as it was called was issued to replace the SMG. he SLR was still the main weapon. The Armalite was a disaster always falling apart, most were held to gether with masking tape and had paper clips replacing some of the pins.

 

Arnie

Quote Mo Price 3LI/KSLI

Flash

 

3LI never saw active service in the Far East certainly not in Borneo and Malaya.

 

I repeat Old wives tale.

 

Arnie

Flash

 

The blanket body armour sounds more like an old wives tale more I think of it.

 

In 1973 not long after the confrontation with Indonesia started. The Indons Special forces were armed with the Armalite and had 9mm Sten Guns. Terefore unless the Blanket Armour really worked. They would have know that the blanket was no protection.

 

By the way in late '73 a patrol lead by 'A' CSM Don Reynolds was ambushed by Indon Para Commandos. The patrol fought their way out, but had three men wounded in the action. Don searched the firing points and found these empty cartridge cases. It was thought at the time they belonged to a US .30 Carbine. They were sent to Div HQ and were found to be .223. This was at the time when he US was complaining about he British selling Buss; to Cuba.

 

Arnie

During the late 1920s through the early 1930s, criminals in the United States began wearing less-expensive vests made from cotton padding and cloth. These early vests were capable of generally protecting against handgun bullets such as .22, .25, S&W .32 Long, S&W .32, .380 ACP, and .45 ACP traveling at slower speeds of up to approximately 1000 ft/s (300 m/s). This led to the development of the .357 Magnum cartridge for the use of law enforcement agents such as the FBI to overcome these vests.

The asians are unsurpassed in their ability to copy and manufacture goods of any description. It is quite plausible that they developed the vests used by American gangsters. The heavier vests they could have got from the communists would have been too bulky for them to wear.

Jimbert

JimBert,

That doesn't say anything about the power of the .223 rd, but certainly with .380 and .45, fired inside a room, you're hovering around the same as a 9mm SMG fired at 25-50 yds. MVs drop tremendously, as do striking energies. Thanks for that, didn't realise that was the reason for .357 mag.

Cheers

Peter 

Bert/Flash

 

I think we are talking about law inforcement with soft nosed ammo It was general practice for policemen to have bullets that would not richochet,. lead would smear itself on a hard surface and would not be dangeros to bystanders.  In Newry we found thousands of  round of different calibres all soft nosed and most over 50 years old

 

Jim it is rather strange that the Indonesians were supplied by the US and were virulent anti communists Sukarno and his successor murdered over a million Chinese suspecting them of being communist. Asians are very resourceful but they are not stupid. Nobody In the Borneo Association has ever heard of the story. 

 

Finaly in 1962-3- 4 I dont think there was any army in the world issueing their infantry with body armour. The US was only just getting round to it. The Britisish Army got round to issueing Body armour in 1969 2 LI was the first unit issued.

 

Sunday regarding the medal yes we earned it in Borneo but we would also have earned it in Malaya when Indonesia landed Paratroopers on the Penninsular. Most surendered without firing a shot. We captured one when we were escorting a mobile bath unit down to the Kiwis operating in Johore.

 

 

Arnie

 

 

The Germans by far had the better guns. We just had more of them. The 88 was the best all-purpose gun there was.

Welcome to History Page, ww2buff.  I am currently reading a book about WWII and just night before last I read a comment similar to yours about the quantity/quality issue.

 

I just entered the chapter on the war in Africa and the Battle of El Alamein.  Hitler apparently had medals struck in anticipation of a big win there. 

 

sunday

WW2Buff

 

Hard to devise a cocktail of what's the best gun.

 

I might say no, the Russian 76.2 which was a British AA gun sold to Russia and replaced by our 3.7". Cheaper, lower silhouette, so esteemed by the Germans they made ammunition for it. OK, didn't have the power of the 88mm, but they were nasty A/Tk weapons and could give a MkIV (Germany's commonest tank) a hiding.

 

Our 3.7"/94 mm would shoot the pants off the 88mm (tell me I'm wrong, I'm too lazy to check wikepedia out) but some idiot General forbade us to use it as an A/Tk gun.

 

What do you want the gun to do? Flat low trajectory HV work, anti tank? Lightweight fast firing HE or smoke for anti infantry? Maybe the 105mm, or our beloved 25 pdr. Same, but longer range bigger shell? 155mm/6" And then you've got the mortars, 2"/50mm or 3" or 81mm or the heavies; 4.2". Or shells to smash concrete like the German railway guns..........Pinpoint accuracy but incredible heavy explosive load.

 

The world's your oyster. Goes back to the question, "What would Sir like his guns to do?"

 

Peter

What is best in terms of performance is not necessarily best overall.

Ease of production, cost, ease of use, ease of maintenance all figure in it in terms of how many (of any equipment) you can get into the field and actualy use.

 

A good example would be the T-34. Fairly good but not technicaly the best in terms of performance, but taken overall it was a world beater.  If your enemy has a slightly better tank and your loss rate is 50% more than the enemy but you can turn them out 3 or 4 times faster along with crews, the result is inevitable.

 

Re:  Alamein.  A lot hinged on deception. i.e dummy tanks, trucks etc.  All fooling Rommels inteligence branch successfully into anticipating an attack in the south.  Similar situation with Overlord - the fictitious FUSAG and the spy/agent 'Garbot'

Funk

In terms of ease of production etc I might just stir myself to see the relative merits of the MK IV and the T-34; I mean here the last Mk IVs with the long 75mms. I don't think they ever mounted the Panther's L70 gun in it, but that certainly beat T34s to a pulp.The Mk 4 had an L48 Gun, I read, which was a match for the T34's.

But the crowning thing, the T34 is diesel driven. (needs a 16 gallon oil tank too).

I've got a feeling the MK IV is underrated, but then only 9,000 were produced against 65,000 T34s. 

Peter