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Hi

This raid by the RAF was arguably the most accurate Bombing attack of the war. The USAAF boasted to be the most accurate bombers. If they hit the right town it was accurate

Arnie

Tirpitz, November 12 1944

On November 12, 1944, the Royal Air Force carried out one of the most successful precision bombing attacks of the Second World War, resulting in the sinking of the German battleship 'Admiral von Tirpitz'. The attack was made by 29 Lancasters of Nos 9 and 617 Squadrons. No fewer than 10 attacks, by RAF and Royal Navy aircraft and by British and Russian submarines, had been made on the Tirpitz since she had been completed in 1941. It was therefore not surprising that the German Navy regarded the ship as unsinkable. When the Secretary of State for Air, Sir Archibald Sinclair, visited the Squadrons at their base the day after the Tirpitz had been sunk, he congratulated them on sinking 'one of the toughest ships in the world'.

On 15 September 1944 9 and 617 Squadrons attacked the Tirpitz (circled) in Kaa Fjord, and despite the smoke screen seen here, managed to hit the ship with a single Tallboy. The two attacks which preceded the successful one of November 12th were both made by RAF Bomber Command. On September 15th, 1944, Nos 9 and 617 Squadrons, operating from Yagodnik near Archangel in Russia, attacked the Tirpitz, but were prevented from making accurate bombing runs by a smoke screen which surrounded the vessel. The screen did not prevent the Tirpitz from being hit by one of the thirteen Tallboy bombs dropped, however. The damage caused by this attack made the Tirpitz unable to put to sea, a fact not know to the Allies at the time. The ship was towed to an anchorage 4 miles from Tromso and on October 29th, the two squadrons made another attack. This time, flying direct from Lossiemouth, the Lancasters were fitted with more powerful Merlin 24 engines, were lightened by the removal of the mid-upper gun turret, some of the armour plating and other equipment, were fitted with overload fuel tanks. Each Lancaster carried a 12,000lb 'Tallboy' bomb, but again the attack was a disappointment as low cloud interfered with bombing runs. The ship did, however, sustain some damage on this occasion. For the successful attack of November 12th, Lancasters of Nos 9 and 617 Squadrons, led respectively by Squadron Leader AG Williams DFC and Wing Commander JB Tait DSO DFC, took off from Lossiemouth at about 3 a.m. They flew to a rendezvous point, a lake 100 miles south-east of Tromso, at 1,000 feet to avoid early detection by enemy radar.

Salvage ships circle the once mighty Tirpitz although there was no evidence of a large scale salvage operation The attacking force then climbed to bombing height - between 12,000 and 16,000 feet - and the warship was sighted from about 20 miles away. This time the smoke screen was out of action and their were no defending fighters. When the bombers were about 13 miles away, the main guns of the Tirpitz opened fire and were shortly by shore batteries and two flak ships. One Lancaster was shot down. The first bombs narrowly missed the target, but then, in rapid succession, came three direct hits. A column of steam and smoke shot up to about 300 feet and within a few minutes the ship had started to list badly. About 10 minutes after the first bomb struck, the Tirpitz had completely turned turtle with only the hull visible from the air.

The Tirpitz bulkhead salvaged from the ship and presented to 9 and 617 Squadrons One aspect of the operation, which has remained something of a mystery is the total lack of interference from enemy fighters. The first reports of the Lancasters meeting at the rendezvous point were received on the Tirpitz at about 9 a.m., an hour and a half before the aircraft attacked, and fighter protection was requested immediately. It appears that one reason why this request was not granted may have been that the Germans believed that the fighter base at Bardufoss was the intended target for the British bombers. Five years later, the Norwegian salvage company raising the Tirpitz found an engine room bulkhead door on which one of the crew had painted the ship breaking through a rough sea underneath the words: 'Gegen England' (Against England). This bulkhead was mounted and an inscription, "Part of bulkhead of Tirpitz, sunk by Nos 9 and 617 Squadrons - 12th November, 1944, at Tromso. Presented to Bomber Command by brothers-in-arms, Royal Norwegian Air Force, in commemoration of friendship and co-operation during World War II" was added before it was placed on display at RAF Binbrook, the then home to both squadrons. Both Squadrons lay claim to the fact that it was their bombs that actually sunk the Tirpitz, and the bulkhead has been 'owned' by both squadrons over the years and continued to be the centre of inter-squadron rivalry until 2002. The bulkhead was the presented to the Bomber Command Museum, where it remains as a memorial to the crews of two of Bomber Command's most famous Squadrons.

There were another problems suffered by all bomber forces and one was the problem of 'tail back'. This was a problem of bomber crews releasing their bombs before they reached the target area. The RAF fitted cameras to their bombers that worked in conjuction with the bomb doors, taking a photo of the target and the bombs falling. RAF crews that failed to bomb the target and did not have a reason for not doing so were disciplined. USAAF did not have the same equipment or sanctions. When the RAF and USAAF turned their attention to Berlin, the tail back almost reached Magdeburg nearly a 100 miles west of the Targets.

The RAF also had severe sanctions against crews who flew their aircraft to neuteral countries.A crew who flew their plane into such countries risked being charged with lacking moral fibre and if found guilty they would lose their wings brevet, flying pay and would have the ignomy of being thought a coward. USAAF allowed their crews to fly to neuteral countries if they thought their aircraft defective. This permission was called Rule 22 giving rise to the post war novel and film 'Catch 22'. The results of this difference in attitudes were that the RAF lost only a handful of aircraft, and everyone crash landed. The USAAF lost hundreds many undamaged. So many in fact that in one neuteral country (Sweden) They were able to to start a national airline using ex USAAF planes bought for a dollar each.

By the way the RAF Air Marshals, believed that planes crashing in and pilots baleing out over occupied countries and becoming POWs would tie up thousands of German troops, that could have been used else where

This must take some beating.

On this date in 1941, RAF fighter ace Douglas Bader baled out of his Spitfire over German-occupied France after a collision with a Messerschmitt 109, leaving one of his artificial legs in the cockpit, and was taken prisoner. Later Bader's Tangmere Wing escorted a Blenheim bomber, which dropped a replacement right leg by parachute.

.....and I think it was with the co-operation of the Germans too

You are right of course, here is a a cutting from 'A Century of Flight' in the section dedicated to Adolf Galland the Luftwaffe pilot:

Galland's chivalry is clear in his wartime encounter on the ground with Wing Commander (later Group Captain) Douglas Bader, the legless RAF ace. Shot down with several squadron mates in a melee over the Pas de Calais, Bader fell into German hands. Galland was one of the German pilots scoring kills in that action, but the wildness of the engagement made it impossible to determine Bader's conqueror.

Like many British officers of the time, Bader was quite conscious of rank and was aware that NCOs had taken part in the action. He was anxious to know who had shot him down. Galland assured him that an officer had taken his measure, and a suitable German candidate was selected as the "fall guy" and introduced.

Unfortunately, in parachuting from his plane Bader had damaged his artificial legs, and asked for a spare set to be sent from England. Galland forwarded his request with a recommendation for approval, and safe conduct was offered for the aircraft bringing the legs. Sadly, the British concept of chivalry had worn thin after the bombing of London, so the RAF dropped Bader's legs along with some bombs targeting on the airfields of JG-26!!

As an interesting aside, Bader was allowed to sit in the cockpit of an Me-109, and even asked permission to fly it around the field a couple of times. Galland was courteous, but denied the request.....

tail back is what I believe the RAF calleed creep back. dropping ones load further away from the aiming point . Which is 1 reason cameras were put abopard the aircraft, to show us where we dropped.

As for attitudes re POWs . Many British that were captured went into escaping as a way to keep the war going. Which was alright until the GREAT ESCAPE of March 30/31 1944 which ended with 50 of the 76 escapees being murdered.

AT A REUNION I MET A FEW OF THE LANCASTER BOMBING CREWS OF MY OLD SQN WHO SAID IT WAS NOT UNCOMMON TO HAVE BOMBS DROPPED ON YOU FROM HIGHER LAYERS OF THE FORMATIONS.

ALL THAT IT WOULD TAKE IS FOR ONE FLIGHT TO BE A LITTLE BEHIND OR AHEAD OF THE OTHERS. ONE TOLD ME OF HAVING BIG HOLES IN THE WINGS OF HIS PLANE BUT STILL HE MANAGED TO LAND IT BACK IN ENGLAND. THE BOMBS WOULDN'T EXPLODE BUT WOULD GO CLEAN THROUGH WHAT EVER THEY HIT.

I HAVE FLOWN OVER THE TIRPITZ IN A HUEY (TWIN) WHILE ON EXERCISE IN NORWAY. STILL VERY VISIBLE ON THE BOTTOM.

JUST BEFORE THAT WE BUZZED TWO RUSSIAN SPY TRAWLWERS DISGUISED AS FISHING BOATS.( FLOATING RADIO RECEIVERS IS REALLY WHAT THEY WERE)

EVERY BUDDY SMILED AND WAVED TO EACH OTHER AS THOUGH IT WAS THE NORM AND EXPECTED.

Bowlegged, do you suppose the British newspapers reported that incident in the English Channel? The Brits did have a right to know that their bombers killed Glenn Miller. The Americans had a right to know as well.

Glen Miller was a proponent of the "Big Band Sound" which was very very camp, and beloved of the trade unions since it employed enormous amounts of musicians.

The Soviets were extremely fond of it since it absorbed fit young Americans who would otherwise be invading parts of Germany which they wanted.

Churchill and Lord Trenchard enlisted the help of "Bomber Harris" to eradicate this problem. If you look at the photo you will notice the fatal Bomb has "Goodbye, Commie Rat:- Winnie" stencilled on it.

I love Glenn Miller. And Benny Goodman. And Tommy Dorsey. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Now, Flashman, why don't you do right like some other men do. Get out of here and get me some money too.

I think I mentioned the Camera linked to the bomb bays

The shooting of the fifty prisoners was in away acomplement to the policy of escape. Hitler ordered the shooting of escaped prisoners because the escaped prisoners were keeping men at home in Germany when they could better used in Russia or else where.

How dare you accuse the RAF this is the true. This the way all soldiers should go in my case at the of 90

A German newspaper says wartime bandleader Glenn Miller died of a heart attack in the arms of a French prostitute in 1944 and not, as officially reported, in a plane crash. The mass-circulation Bild newspaper alleged that the famed trombonist and exponent of the big band swing sound met his death in a Paris brothel. The paper said German journalist Udo Ulfkoutte discovered the secret of how he died in U.S. secret service files while doing research for his book, "BND, The Secret Files." The paper quoted the journalist as saying the true cause of Miller's death was concealed to keep his legend alive and protect the morale of U.S. troops. U.S. military and intelligence officials were not immediately available to comment on the cover-up allegation.

Joking apart I don't think that the bombing theory has ever been substantiated I know that there were reports that it may have happend. The site below has a couple of letters on this subject

I CAN LISTEN TO THE BIG BAND SOUND (SWING) BEFORE I CAN LISTEN TO C&W SUNDAY.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT HIS PLANE WAS TAKEN OUT BY FALLING ORDINANCE BEFORE. ANYTHING CAN AND DOES HAPPEN IN WAR THOUGH.

AS FOR THINGS BEING REPORTED AT THE TIME IN THE BRITISH OR AMERICAN PAPERS, I THINK NOT. THERE WAS A WAR GOING ON AND ANY DEATH THAT MAY HAVE BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL OR THE RESULT OF FRIENDLY FIRE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED AS IT COULD AND WOULD HAVE BEEN USED BY THE OTHER SIDE AS PRAPAGANDA.

I HAVE READ SOMEWHERE THAT THE PLANE THAT HE WAS A PASSENGER IN WAS TO FLY AT A LOWER ALTITUDE DURING THE CHANNEL CROSSING.

I like the Big Band sound too. I watched a TV programme a few years ago in which they interviewed an RAF crewman who said he saw a 'plane that fitted the description of Glenn Miller's being destroyed by bombs from his own squadron. Apparently it was flying off course over an area designated for the jettysoning of bombs and supposedly barred to non-military aircraft.

The Big band sound was a con.

All the guys had to do was stand up, play a few notes, amd sit down again And all the little in-crowd clapped at certain moments.

Word was that these "musicians" could only play those 4 notes each, and the big bands numbered some 20,000 men each to be able to play a selection of say 10 tunes, at 4 notes each. They were experts at swapping places to play the only notes they could, and of course were dressed identically and subjected to a particularly savage course of plastic surgery to look identical.

Their parents were paying Glenn Miller $5.00 per musician each, to keep them safe.

Not many people know that.

Years ago in the days before CDs we each took in a music cassette to play at the office Christmas party. I took in Glenn Miller and it was the most popular one, great for dancing to. I was very popular with the ladies over 50 that day.

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