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War : Greatest Bombing Raids- Augsburg 1942
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 Message 1 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameArnie-113  (Original Message)Sent: 8/29/2007 2:05 PM
Tincan
 
Please note this raid was in daylight, sufferd over 60% casualties and managed to bomb its target.
 
Arnie
 
Augsburg, 17th April 1942

Nettleton's crew after the mission to Augsburg, standing, left to right, L H Mutter, F H Harrison, C S C McClure (inset), D N Huntley, seated, P A Dorehill, J D Nettleton, D O Sands and C F ChurchillThe Augsburg raid was led by John Nettleton on the 17th April 1942 the Lancaster crews at Waddington were called to the briefing room for an operational sortie. The target was the M.A.N diesel engine factory at Augsburg in southern Germany - some 1,000 miles across France and Germany, and in broad daylight!

Out on the airfield the ground crews were completing fuelling and arming eight Lancasters of 44 Squadron (one aircraft being simply a reserve standby machine); filling the petrol tanks to their maximum capacity of 2,154 gallons, and hoisting four 1,000lb GP high explosive bombs, fitted with 11-seconds delay detonators, into each aircraft bomb bay. Take-off for the raid was set for mid-afternoon.

At 3.12 pm John Nettleton lifted Lancaster R5508, B off the Waddington runway, followed by six other Lancasters from 44 Squadron. Once all were airborne and beginning to close up in tight formations, the last Lancaster to leave circled and returned to base, being simply a reserve machine to slot into any gap at the start of the sortie. The remaining six aircraft settled into two Vics of three as they drummed low across Lincolnshire heading southwards. In front Nettleton had Warrant Officer G. T. Rhodes in Lanc, L7536 H to his left, and Flying Officer J. Garwell DFC DFM in R5510, A to starboard. The second Vic close behind was led by Flight Lieutenant N. Sandford in R5506, P with Warrant Officer J. E. Beckett in L7565, V to port, and Warrant Officer H. V. Crum in L7548, T to starboard.

The six bombers were soon linked up with six more Lancasters from 97 Squadron, based at Woodhall Spa, and led in similar two-Vics formations by Squadron Leader J. S. Sherwood DFC in Lancaster L7573, OF-K.

Lancaster L7578 KM-B of 44 Squadron in which Nettleton and his crew practised for the raid, although it was another KM-B, R5508, that Nettleton actually flew on the Augsburg missionThe rendezvous came over Selsey Bill and all twelve dropped to a mere 50 feet as they thundered across the English Channel. Ahead of them a force of 30 Boston bombers and almost 800 fighters were variously busy bombing and strafing targets away from the bombers planned route, in the hope of drawing off any Luftwaffe fighters and thereby provide the Lancasters with a safe run across Europe. As the bombers hugged the waves towards the French coast line, Nettleton's front two sections began to draw ahead of Sherwood's formation, flying slightly north of the intended flight path. Sherwood made no attempt to catch up; the briefing had allowed for separate attacks if circumstances decreed such, and Sherwood was highly conscious of the need to preserve fuel on such an extended sortie. Still keeping as low as possible to keep under any radar defences, the twelve aircraft roared across the French coast and headed deep into Germany.

For much of the initial journey across enemy-occupied territory the bombers met no serious opposition from ground defences and none from the Luftwaffe, but as Nettleton's six aircraft - now well ahead of the 97 Squadron formation - skirted the boundary of Beaumont le Roger airfield they ran out of luck. As the bombers appeared a gaggle of Messerschmitt Bf 109's and Focke-Wulf Fw 190's of II Gruppe/ Jagdgeschwader 2 Richthoffen were in various stages of landing after an engagement in the Cherbourg area with some of the diversionary RAF raids. For a moment the Lancaster crews thought they hadn't been spotted, but then several German fighters were seen to snap up their undercarriages and turn quickly in their direction.

Unescorted, at tree-top height, and in broad daylight, the ensuing onslaught could have only one conclusion for the Lancasters. The rear Vic of Nettleton's formation was first to be attacked, and the first Lancaster to go was Beckett's; hit by a hail of cannon shells from Hauptmann Heine Greisert and diving into a clump of trees like a roaring furnace of flames. Next to go was Sandford who was attacked by Feldwebel Bosseckert and had all four engines set afire before exploding in a giant fireball. Then Crum was jumped by Unteroffizier Pohl in his Bf 109, Black 7 and had his port wing erupt in flames. Jettisoning his bomb load immediately Crum promptly put the crippled Lancaster down on the ground, as per the pre-agreed briefing instructions. Unbeknown to Crum his crash was recorded in the Jagdgeschwader's Game Book as its 1,000th claimed victory of the war.

The fighters now started attacks on Nettleton's front Vic of three Lancasters. By then they had been joined by Major Oesau, a 100-victory ace officially forbidden to fly more operations, but who had jumped into a fighter and taken off on first sight of the Lancasters, followed by his wing man Oberfeldwebel Edelmann. Oesau selected Rhodes for his victim and closed to within 10 metres firing all guns and cannon in a withering hail of fire. The Lancaster's port engines both erupted in flames, which spread instantly to the starboard motors. The bomber reared abruptly-as if in agony - stalled harshly, plunged straight down; passing between Nettleton and Garwell in a vertical dive and missing both by mere inches.

By now most of the fighters were forced to withdraw due to lack of fuel, and the two surviving Lancasters, though damaged, continued their journey. Finally reaching the objective both flew straight across the target factory in close formation, released their bombs, and began the run-out. At that moment Garwell's aircraft was hit badly by the alerted ground defences and, pluming smoke and flames, dropped towards the ground as Garwell put the Lancaster down quickly, finally slithering to a halt and saving the lives of all but three of his crew.

Survivors of the Augsburg raid, left to right, Sqn Ldr D J Penman, Sgt D N Huntley, P/O D Sands, Brendan Bracken (Minister of Information), Flt Lt B R W 'Darky' Hallowes, Sgt R P Irons and Sqn Ldr J D NettletonNettleton, now alone, pulled away from the scene and set course for the return journey. By then the evening darkness was closing in, providing a form of protection for the lone bomber as it retraced its path across Germany and France. Behind him Sherwood's six Lancasters were now approaching the target, now well marked by smoke from the initial attack. Going in at rooftop level, virtually in line astern, the first Vic bombed, then dropped to street level to get under the flak curtain, and ran out. Sherwood's aircraft was hit and burst into flames; flew straight into the ground and exploded.

In the second trio, two Lancs were hit on the run-in and both burst into flames. Warrant Officer Mycock DFC in Lancaster, R5513, P despite his aircraft being a ball of fire - continued his bombing run but then exploded in the air. The other burning bomber, skippered by Flying Officer E. A. Deverill, completed its bombing run and pulled away, still trailing flames from one engine. The other four, after running the terrifying gauntlet of ground fire, bombed and turned for home, riddled with flak damage but safe. Later, Deverill's Lancaster, the fire extinguished but bearing a ten-foot gash along its fuselage flanks, formated with another 97 Squadron aircraft and came back to base. Of the 12 aircraft, which set out seven failed to return; of the 85 men, 49 were missing.

Nettleton eventually landed at Squire's Gate aerodrome, near Blackpool just before 1 AM, and telephoned Waddington to report on the mission and ask about the survivors. On 28 April the London Gazette announced the award of a Victoria Cross to John Nettleton, and a flock of DFCs, DFMs and a DSO to the other survivors of the raid.

The Wedding reception for John Nettleton and his bride, Section Officer Betty nee Havelock WAAF, 1 July 1942.



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 Message 2 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesunnyboyreturnsSent: 8/29/2007 4:38 PM
800 fighters?????  No way.   England did not have 800 fighter in its whole airforce at that time.   Is this metric numbers??  Those so called bomber were very small and could do little damage.  
 
 
 
sunny

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 Message 3 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 8/29/2007 7:20 PM
Why do you do this to yourself Sunny ? Type such rubbish that it makes you look stupid. The Avro Lancaster could carry a bomb load of up to 22,000 lbs, call that small ?
I'm no expert, but how does that compare to the top bombers of the USA or Germany ? The Lancaster may not be top but it's not far behind.
Is it hot in Alabama at the moment ? 

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 Message 4 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamevicbc6Sent: 8/30/2007 10:29 PM
Acctually the AVRO Lancaster  was  the 1 bomber in WW II that could carry the 10 ton bomb. As stated  tghey could carry 22,000 lbs  load. The BOEING B 29 comes  close  but otherwise  the Laancaster  comes infirst in load carry caoacity.In fact when the 509th  found they  didn't have a  proper US  made hook for the A bomb they got one  made for the Lancaster
 

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 Message 5 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameArnie-113Sent: 8/31/2007 3:33 PM
Sunny
 
It is difficult to find exact figures for the number of fighters in 1942 (At an educated estimate I would say around 20,000. But I can give you some statistics that will enable evry onr to make a calculated guess.
 
At the end of the battle of Britain had nearly 800 fighters of all types, during the battle British manufactures were able to replace losses at a rate that in fact replaced  aircraft  faster than they were lost.
 
During the war the British were probably the most efficient manufactures in the world. If you take the four most famous fighters. We manufactured 30,000 aircraft, they were as follows; the Spitfire 20,000, Hurricane, 14,000, Beufighter 6000, Mosquito 8000.
These were the front line fighters we also had hundreds of fighters such as the Defiant, Gladiator, Fury that were also on secondline service.
 
The British also recived many fighters from the US but until the Mustang was re engined they were not considered good enough for Europe and were mainly used for ground attack in the Middleand far east.
 
Withe regard to the Lancaster it together with the Halifax were considered heavy lift bombers. The Lancaster could carry 4000 lbs normal bomb load, The B17 could carry just over 2000 and it was not until the B29 came along in late 1944 the the US had a bomber that could carry almost as much as the Lanc as previously said also carried the Tall Boy bomb at 17,000lbs and later the Grand Slam at 22,000 lbs'
 
The Lancaster flew over 156,000 missions and dropped 608,000 tons of bombs. During WW2. 8000 Lancs were built but only 127 completed 30 Operational Missions.
 
arnie

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 Message 6 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamesunnyboyreturnsSent: 8/31/2007 4:36 PM
Mark said your bomber could carry 22.000 lbs, vic said appox 20,000 lbs and you confirmed at 4000 lbs.   On this I agree with you.  But at the time of this post it was stated that England had 800 fighters.  That is wrong 200 max.  England was losing more planes than they could replace.  Europeans do not understand mass production.  It is NOT the bells and whisles on equiptment that is important.  It is the numbers that are made.  Do not save equiptment.  Make a lot of it.
 
 
 
sunny    

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 Message 7 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameArnie-113Sent: 8/31/2007 4:54 PM

Sunny

At the end of the battle of britain we had more aircraft than we had when it started  Why did the RAF have over a 1.5 million pilots if we did not have aircraft to put them in'

vic said the Lanc would carry 22,000 lbs it did and I repeat the Grand slam bomb

Please try to keep up old soldier

Arnie


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 Message 8 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 8/31/2007 7:25 PM
The heatwave has finally frazzled Sunny's already overheated brain.

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 Message 9 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamefunkmasterjeeSent: 10/21/2007 9:03 PM
I might be wrong but I think the 'normal' bombload for a Lancaster was about 6000 - 8000lbs.  
Specialy modified Lancs. up to 22000.
 
On the Augsburg raid only 4000lbs due to the extended range and need for max. fuel
 
The 'tallboy' bomb was 12000lbs and designed to go marginaly supersonic, pentrating deck armour, concrete bunkers and shelters

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 Message 10 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 10/22/2007 12:50 AM
I believe ditto with the Grand Slam, with its precision machined casing and fins. They were made to a specific contract.
Out 3" 76.2 mortars were completely eclipsed by the 81 mm replacement in terms of accuracy. The barrels were made of miles of steel wire wrapped round a central mandril, and the bombs internally machined not just cast. Obturating bands were made of teflon.
I wonder if the precision production of the Grand slam 20-odd years before might have influenced it.

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 Message 11 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamefunkmasterjeeSent: 10/22/2007 9:59 PM
On the subject of the Battle of Britain, aircraft production and supply was no problem, it was the shortage of pilots that was the real problem and in particular pilots with plenty of time clocked up on the hurricane and spitfire.  That and the general grinding down and attrition against the RAF airfields of Kent and around London.
If the campaign against the airfields had continued, the RAF would have had to pull back further north to force the German bombers to fly without any fighter escort thereby increasing bomber casualties, reducing the losses to the RAF and reducing the chances of successful German attacks against the airfields further north.
 
Of course that would have left London Kent and Essex with little fighter protection, but would have bought a valuble breathing space for the RAF to recover and regroup.  As events turned out Goering ordered a new offensive against London, handing the RAF the 'breathing space' they needed on a plate.
 
Its been said that the switch to bombing London and away from the airfields probably cost Germany the battle.  Personaly I think that Hitler knew he had until late september / early october to get Britain to sue for peace or give up.  Both sides knew a winter invasion was not on the cards and by march 1941 Britain knew Russia was set to be invaded due to Ultra decryptions

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 Message 12 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 10/22/2007 10:23 PM
I still reckon the biggest problem was Lord Beaverbrook and his insistence on .303 rimmed ammunition.
The Germans were soon to convert to 13mm and 13mm, as well as 20mm cannon, even in their bombers' defensive turrets.
Peter

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