MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The History Page[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Message Boards  
  For New Members  
  On This Day....  
  General  
  American History  
  Ancient History  
  British History  
  Current Events  
  European History  
  The Civil War  
  War  
  World History  
  Pictures  
    
    
  Links  
  Militaria Board  
  Cars/Motorcycles  
  
  
  Tools  
 
War : Friends and enemies
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbert  (Original Message)Sent: 9/17/2007 8:59 AM
Who can understand the Irish?
Jimbert
 

HEROIC OPTION: The Irish in the British Army


The story of Irish soldiers in the British army from the seventeenth century until the First World War is a distinguished one, with battle honours in every campaign from Fontenoy to the Somme. Completed by his wife Jean, the late Desmond Bowen’s book Heroic Option sympathetically recounts this spectacular history and is a useful addition to the growing literature of Irish arms.
The army was popular in Ireland, even in the eighteenth century, when penal prohibitions on catholics slowed recruitement, but it was still possible to find men, by shipping Irish recruits to Scotland, and then transferring them back to Ireland to be enlisted as ‘Scotsmen�?By the early nineteenth century the need for men was so great that recruits were consciously being mustered in Irish regiments, like the Inniskillings or the Royal Irish Fusiliers, whose reputations in the British army were second to none.Irish soliders, moreover, distinguished themselves for courage and intelligence. Wellington is the most famous, but men like General Sir Brian Mahon and Sir Garnett Wolsey were national heroes, regardless of their religious backgrounds, both in Ireland and England.Not for nothing would Ireland’s ascendany class be considered the English equivalent of Prussian Junkers. Having said that, Irish soliders were not invariably successful: consider the sad story of general Sir Charles McCarthy, ‘a stately, bearded pigheaded Irishman�? who had risen to the rank of British Military Governor in West Africa.When Ashanti warriors decided to attack the small British forts there, McCarthy determined to punish this insolence.He incautiously advanced into the jungle with only a small force and was wiped out.McCarthy literally lost his head: preserved as a fetish, his skull was used as a drinking mug in Ashanti royal feasts - a salutatory lesson to those who think that African warriors are a pushover.After 1867 the hitherto straightforward relationship between the army and Ireland was complicated by growing nationalist demands for home rule, a cause which divided individual soldiers as much as it did the Irish nation.The terrible events of spring and summer 1916 brought this sharply into focus.The Easter Rising was fought by some 1800 volunteers of the Irish Republican Brotherhood and 2,500 Irish troops of the Dublin garrison.Unpopular with the people of Dublin, the political ineptitude of its suppression turned Ireland violently against the British administration.This painful event was compounded by the bloody battles for the Somme.The march of the 36th (Ulster) Division across the moonscape of no mansland won it four VCs for breaching the German lines, but at a terrible cost. Unfortunately the 36th (a purely volunteer formation) had no regular battalions as ‘stiffeners�?so that the breakthrough couldn‘t be exploited, and another small chance to change the bloody pattern of attrition in the Great War was lost. However, the terror of the Somme did not belong only to Ulster. in late September 1916 the 16th (Irish) Division was committed to the battle, also with much loss of life.Among the dead was Tom Kettle, the poet who had enlisted in 1915, whose death was witnessed by his friend, Lieutenant Emmet Dalton, who subsequently gained high rank in Michael Collins�?Free State Army.The creation of the Free State in 1921 brought these tensons into focus.Ideology prompted the Free State Government progressively to deny any Irish involvement in the First World War because it conflicted with Republicanism’s need to present itself as the sole guardian to the tradition of Irish arms. As the Bowens point out, this attitude was long in changing. Between the wars the annual Armistice Day parade by the British Legion, in which Irish veterans were represented, was met by strong opposition from Republicans. As late as 1960, a memorial bust of Tom Kettle was removed at night from its plinth in St Stephen’s Green and dumped in a pond. Things are changing and in 1998 Mrs. McAleese, the President of Ireland King Albert of Belgium, and H.M. the Queen were present at a ceremony to mark the first joint memorial service to all Ireland’s dead in the Great War.


First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: bowleggedSent: 9/17/2007 4:46 PM
"Who can understand the Irish?"

The Irish have always enjoyed fighting. 'Nuff said.

Reply
 Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 9/18/2007 1:31 AM
Bowlegged I have been in Irish Bars in NY where they played the dumbest game I ever saw.  The bet was allways a dollar or a beer.  One guy  would hold onto the bar seated.  The second guy would haul off and punch him in the face.  If the seated man falls off his chair he looses if the puncher is successful he wins.  Have you ever seen it played?  Nuttiest thing I ever saw.

Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 9/18/2007 7:53 AM
I WOULDN'T EVEN TOUGH THAT FEN.

Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/18/2007 1:51 PM
An Irish leader was once asked, that cnsidering  the relationship between Ireland & England, why did so many Irishmen join the British Army during war times.  The leader replied that yes the English were their enemies but, he said, "they are our enemies, but, they are OUR enemies, and we don't want anyone else bothering them."

Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 9/18/2007 11:57 PM
I love it.  I will use that line LEW.

First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Return to War