MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The History Page[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Message Boards  
  For New Members  
  On This Day....  
  General  
  American History  
  Ancient History  
  British History  
  Current Events  
  European History  
  The Civil War  
  War  
  World History  
  Pictures  
    
    
  Links  
  Militaria Board  
  Cars/Motorcycles  
  
  
  Tools  
 
War : American "Haigs"
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbert  (Original Message)Sent: 2/13/2008 10:50 AM
General Haig is reviled for the number of soldiers he sent to their deaths, but little is said  about the willingness of American generals, to sacrifice the troops under their command.
A short example from the battle for Palau. General William Rupertus, commander of the First Marine Division, gave the go-ahead for a battle he had announced would take "no more than three days, tops".
Jimbert
 
The Marine losses in the withdrawn battalions had now reached 60%. In the first week of battle, Marine losses reached 4,00 men. And it was only the beginning.

The bravery of the Marine infantry was matched by the egomania and stupidity of their commanders. Marine doctrine states that when a regiment is reduced in number by 15% it is no longer considered a battle capable unit, and yet by D-Day plus 7, many units were down to 40%. The blame for this must rest with General Rupertus, who had the 81st US Army Division sitting offshore, and with Colonel Lewis P. "Chesty" Puller, commander of the First Marine Division, who sent his depleted infantry regiments to their deaths in hopeless assaults. Rupertus stubbornly refused to call in the Army reinforcements, and Puller, a man of courage but questionable judgment refused to ask for them (a deadpan Captain Everett C. Pope called Colonel Puller "the best platoon leader in the history of the Marine Corps").

There is an area against the ridges called "The Horseshoe" a low spot ringed by high hills and sheer cliffs, an area where American troops fell by the hundreds, that was the scene of desperation caused by such command attitudes. Hill 100 sits on the right as you enter the Horseshoe from the invasion beach side, and from the bottom, seems to have a commanding view. It was thought that Hill 100 may have given the Marines high ground to provide fire support for troops attacking the Horseshoe. To this hill, on the orders of Chesty Puller, Captain Everett Pope led the remnants of Company C, now only 90 men, with orders to take and hold the hill. As it turned out, Hill 100 was a trap, completely covered by Japanese artillery, mortars and rifles. Joseph Seifts, a survivor, remembers it this way:

"We started up the slope with about 30 men left. By the time we got to the top, there were only about 20 of us left...we had no machine guns or mortars. The Japs hit us at 11 o'clock that night. We had to hold the hill. Because at the bottom lay all our wounded. We stopped attack after attack...I was never so glad to see daylight."

At daybreak, Pope had a defensive perimeter the size of a two car garage. His men were throwing rocks along with an occasional grenade in an effort to save what little they had left (a rock hitting the coral sounded just like a grenade and would slow the Japanese for a few seconds). Out of ammunition, and with only eight men left, he struggled back down the hill. Pope recalled that:

"My most vivid memory, after being driven off the hill, is that Puller would have me court-martialed for having failed to hold. Late that afternoon, Puller ordered what was left of us (with replacements, there now twelve in Company C) to take the hill again. Since there were only a few of us left, it was clearly to have been a suicide mission."

At the very moment Pope prepared to lead his men to their certain deaths, the order was remanded. Puller would subsequently try, and fail, to keep Pope from getting the Medal of Honor for his heroism. Hill 100 would not be taken until two weeks later, and the mutilation of the American dead would make it difficult for the survivors to forgive even the Japanese of today.


First  Previous  9-23 of 23  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 9 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHobbs410Sent: 2/14/2008 9:08 AM
My dad's dad served under Puller in the pacific and Korea, was there when Puller gave a speech that ended with "...I'll win the Medal of Honor if it takes a boxcar full of dogtags." Scared the hell out of the troops but he considered Puller the finest officer he had ever served under, and credits him with getting the wounded out of the Chosin Resorvour.

Reply
 Message 10 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHobbs410Sent: 2/14/2008 9:10 AM
Also MacAurtur was well knonw for his avoidance of casualties and planned his campaign's accordingly.

Reply
 Message 11 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/14/2008 7:52 PM
 Marine doctrine states that when a regiment is reduced in number by 15% it is no longer considered a battle capable unit
 
My God! I can't believe that. We were lucky to see 15% REMAINING after the weekly maths test.

Reply
 Message 12 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCurliestJimbertSent: 2/15/2008 3:25 AM
Consider that the U.S.A. wasn't officially involved in the hostlities until 1941/42, then this puts a different light on the comparative losses.
Jimbert

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 13 of 23 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/15/2008 5:00 AM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

Reply
 Message 14 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/15/2008 9:06 AM
Kasserine Pass was the baptism of fire of the Tiger I believe. "No such thing as bad publicity" he said

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 15 of 23 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/16/2008 1:08 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

Reply
 Message 16 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/16/2008 8:26 PM
Top there is SS Kaserne;SS Barracks.

Reply
 Message 17 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/16/2008 8:31 PM
I'm surprised at the lack of AA fire.
 This feller - the Germans had loads wouylkd have dealt with that Lanc quite easily at that height.

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 18 of 23 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/17/2008 10:16 AM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

Reply
 Message 19 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/18/2008 12:16 AM
Not even one measly little AA Gunner left, then?

Reply
 Message 20 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHobbs410Sent: 2/23/2008 9:42 AM
 I think it is a Bofors anti aircraft gun flash. seen em all over the Battleship Texas.

Reply
 Message 21 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/23/2008 4:30 PM
Right Hobbs. Still in use.
2 major AA guns at the time were the "Tiger Tornado"
 
And the QUAD 40mm water cooled Bofors, developed for Kamikaze ops. The tiger was a bit profligate with fuel.
 

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 22 of 23 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/23/2008 5:52 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

Reply
 Message 23 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/23/2008 7:28 PM
Fewer war crimes tribunals then. "Love the smell (!) of Napalm in the morning" brought to you by Tiger Enterprises.

First  Previous  9-23 of 23  Next  Last 
Return to War