whoa people, lol... if you give Multiply a little time, I think you might just start to enjoy it. Cabin's been over there playing around with a practice site, and we really like what we see, NOW... absolutely hated it at first, and mean detested it, lol. But, once we got our heads out of our... well, you know, it's really quite easy to navigate and CHANGE to your liking. If you check out the forums, you'll find all kinds of help with how stuff works and new layouts. Do yourselves a favour and check that stuff out. One thing that is really nagging me is, if you want people to join the new site and actually hang around and participate, then we need to consider something; if we all put our new "groups" on different forums, people are not going to sign into different places a dozen times (or how ever many groups they belong to) a day. Every one of the different new forums out there are all set up differently. If people are bitching about learning just one new way of doing things, imagine their faces when they discover that they may have to learn several new "languages"... just thinking out loud here, lol.