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100 Responses to “The McCanns: Guilty as Hell!�?/H3> -
The Mc Manns are guilty of killing their daughter and abandoning their daughter to have a drink. So much for the Western Thinking of “I�? “I�? and “I�?
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on 7 November, 2007 at 6:30 pm 2  steph@ Roberto It’s not just that though, it’s the way that certain people are above the law. If they went on trial in Portugal and they had a fair trial and were acquitted on the evidence - fine! - but that’s not happening, they been able to use political influence. And all the media can do, is ignore the blatant corruption, and pump out propaganda, like the racist Morocco allegations and the ridiculous lie that the McCanns and their friends are barred from discussing the case by the Portuguese secrecy laws - not in the UK they’re not - and they’ve hardly been silent about the case!!! lol
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Here bloody here!
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on 8 November, 2007 at 1:48 am 4  HeatherWell said Steph.
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@Steph: You are right about that.
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on 9 November, 2007 at 9:59 pm 6 steph@ Landers Hi great to hear from you. I’ll email you this weekend. 
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on 9 November, 2007 at 10:03 pm 7 steph@ Roberto Thanks. Two of the tapas nine have contacted Portuguese police to amend their version of events, first this was denied by Clarence Mitchell then confirmed, with of course the rider that they only want to clear up ambiguities and still support the McCanns. Strangely the original story reported they felt under pressure from those acting for the McCanns!
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on 9 November, 2007 at 10:03 pm 8 steph@ Heather thanks
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on 10 November, 2007 at 11:11 am 9  PhilipCouldn’t agree more. There are as guilty as sin. Using public funding to evade the law by putting up what can only be described as childish smoke screens. Why do they need an official spokesperson if they have nothing to hide? Reflective of one A. Blair and his spin doctors.
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Hey Steph, I’ve been reading�?and enjoying it very much! Hope you’re well x
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on 10 November, 2007 at 3:11 pm 11 steph@ Phillip Thanks. “Using public funding to evade the law by putting up what can only be described as childish smoke screens.�?/P> Exactly! They’ve got away with it - so it’s about time they shut up.
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on 11 November, 2007 at 9:46 am 12  kikiThey are and here in Portugal not only the Police but we all are furious with them, the McCanns and with what our Govern. did as that it is against our Constitution as they were already �?Arguidos�?
Yes, they are the killers!
well said setphi, i hate them!And they are doing money in their daughter’s name too!!!! They dare too much! My stupid mother gave them money too, ARRRGH.. How my mother did such thing, just being really stupid as i always said they are the guilty ones!
Ah well, lets ENJOY the weekend
:wave: Ciao Stephi,
Kiki
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on 11 November, 2007 at 10:59 pm 13 stephThanks Landers X x X
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on 11 November, 2007 at 11:11 pm 14 stephoi Kiki esperanca tudo e bom com voce? Mi mama puede ser como eso tambien pero vio a traves de estos dos culos. abbi una buona settimana il mio amico ciao Steph x
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on 13 November, 2007 at 2:19 pm 15  RedleaderHang on. No one KNOWS anything. This is a one fact story: A little girl has gone missing. Everything else is speculation, spin and rumour. All those people saying “Yes, you’re right, Steph. It WAS them�?are simply jumping on one of the many bandwagons rolling through town. I’m as world-weary as the next person, and I have a hard time with people who say, but there’s NO WAY the McCanns could have done it. Don’t talk to me about what people are and are not capable of. But until the case is proven either one way or another, and unless you were in Madeleine’s bedroom on the night of May 3, you, me and everyone else knows jackshit.
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on 13 November, 2007 at 4:17 pm 16 steph@ Redleader Speak for yourself. I “know�?that the Portuguese police on the basis of admissible forensic evidence and overwhelming circumstantial evidence beleived they had sufficient evidence to charge. I “know�?that they were only prevented from doing so because the Portugal prosecutor in violating of the Portuguese constitution as Kiki points out, and under pressure from the British government allowed them to flee Portugal. Thus prevent any hope of securing a conviction. I “know�?they haven’t been prosecuted for child neglect when they really ought to have been, I know the social services would have applied for custody of the other two children in normal circumstances. I “know�?that the McCanns have consistently lied and mislead, that their publicity campaign was against police advice. I “know�?that Gerry McCann sits on a government advisory panel and is well connected. That they they were given access to a government spin doctor and employed the services of the governments favourite mercenaries. I also “know�?that people who insist they must be innocent are idiots or have a vested interests. I “know�?there is no “air of reality�?in there version of events. I “know�?that the McCanns have been allowed to evade justice both in the UK and Portugal. I “believe�?no one should be above the law and that the British government has behaved like this was Jenkins�?ear. This is why I said: If the McCanns never face trial in Portugal, it won’t be because there innocent, because on the evidence in the public domain, they’re as guilty as hell!
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on 13 November, 2007 at 5:04 pm 17  dollydaggerBut where’s the EVIDENCE? Where’s the body? Where’s the witnesses? Where’s the categoric forensics? You know better than I do that you can’t convict simply because it is generally held that a suspect “must be guilty.�?/P> Evidence needs to be tested in an open court and a conviction returned only when the burden of proof is incontrovertible. You can’t possibly “know�?the family has consistently lied, can you? And there isn’t a social services department in the land which would mount a neglect action and consider taking children into care on the basis of what happened in Portugal. If what the McCanns did constitutes cruelty and neglect, I doubt there’d be a family left in the UK whose kids weren’t wards of court by now.
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on 13 November, 2007 at 5:40 pm 18 steph@ Dollydagger Evidence needs to be tested in an open court Exactly, but they fled Portugal, after British government intervention, so that isn’t going to happen. That is what I saying. I also know, because it has been stated that the police felt they had sufficient evidence to charge. On the evidence in the public domain, they’ve got more than enough to convict. The forensic evidence is admissible that is enough with the strong circumstantial evidence. As a lawyer, I know they can’t run an alibi defence they had means and opportunity and Gerry McCann has acknowledge that they can’t even give each other alibis. I know the media skirt over this but in a court, if the defence suggests it as an alternative - they damn well have to prove it - the McCanns can’t. The kidnap theory has no “air of reality�?- there is no evidence to support it and statistically it is too improbable for words. There is no reasonable explaination for how a kidnapper would know that Maddie was in that appartment unattended or that the door was unlocked. What I’m saying is that on the known evidence, an ordinary couple, would be convicted.
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on 13 November, 2007 at 5:57 pm 19 steph@ Daggers And there isn’t a social services department in the land which would mount a neglect action and consider taking children into care on the basis of what happened in Portugal. There have been several cases, where parents have been prosecuted for neglect for a lot less. Social services looked into it after an experienced barrister questioned why they hadn’t been a prosecution. The legisaltion is very clear that a death of the child does not “obviate”a prosecution. You can’t possibly “know�?the family has consistently lied, can you? It might have been breezed over in the media but the McCanns were asking people to donate money on the basis that they weren’t under any suspicion and even threatened to sue a paper that dared to suggest they were, when they damn well knew they were under suspicion. The McCanns also suggested their campaign had the support of the police, when the police advised against it. I also think they misled the public about the nature of the fund. They are manipulative profiteers, who hindered the investigation into the police investigation.
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“Two of the tapas nine have contacted Portuguese police to amend their version of events�?…Roberto. Doctors in general and the BMA ( to which they belong) in particular are notorious for their in-house nepotism. They’ll back one another up til the very end. And it looks like that’s exactly what’s happened here. Except liars need to get their mutual versions of untruths to tally exactly before police and/or media investigations commence.
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on 14 November, 2007 at 4:10 pm 21 steph@ Michael You’re absolutely right. But I doubt they will ever face justice, they are pressing for the case to be dropped the Portuguese Public Prosecutor has already sabotaged the police case by letting them leave the jurisdiction.
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on 14 November, 2007 at 4:26 pm 22  commiedyanNegligence? I always had suspicions about the couple and their behavior and I found it odd that in the news accounts I didn’t see any narrations from other vacationers having seen Maddie. Or did I miss those?
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on 18 November, 2007 at 1:02 pm 23 kikihi STEPHI, seems yes some don’t want to see what they are!
Well wish you a sunny and nice Sunday
xxx
Kiki
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on 19 November, 2007 at 1:17 am 24 stephHi Kiki Yeah, I know. But hey, have you heard the latest? The Spanish private investigator who proclaimed that Maddie was in Morocco has now claimed that her abductor is living in Portugal and he has identified her!!! It comes down to three things for me prove that a kidnap took place; prove that the kidnapper knew Maddie was left unattended; and prove that the kidnapper knew the door was unlocked. If they can’t there must be grounds to charge. |
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on 19 November, 2007 at 1:21 am 25 steph@ commiedyan The only thing that seems consistent is that no one else in Praia da Luz supports the evidence of the Tapas nine. Either the whole of Praia da Luz, including other tourists, are conspiring to frame the McCanns or the Tapas nine’s evidence is suspiciously unreliable.
on 20 November, 2007 at 3:23 pm 26  JohnPThe McCanns are obviously very clever. But I’m sorry any NORMAL parent would not have left their kids in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country while they went out on the p*.
That fact is irrefutable. The McCanns admit they did that. Concerned parents? Don;t make me laugh. They are both as guilty as hell and I hope that’s where they rot. Why doesn’t anyone else see this. Thanks Steph for speaking out. I agree with you. Something mighty suspicious in the McCann camp�?/P>
on 20 November, 2007 at 8:48 pm 27 stephI agree John, leaving them alone is despicable. They can’t fend for themselves. Another interesting fact is that Gerry McCann believes his children were sedated - well who by? And why did this eminent cardiologist not ask for a blood test. Was he not concerned about their well being?
on 22 November, 2007 at 1:17 am 28  CindyGiven the time frame involved, I believe Madeleine was last seen alive around six o’clock that evening, and the McCanns entered the Tapas Bar about 8:30 p.m., what do you suppose happened? And, if the McCanns killed their daughter where did they hide her body?
on 22 November, 2007 at 2:48 am 29 steph@ Cindy If you suggest that the McCanns didn’t have enough time to move her body, you’ve got a major problem - someone moved her. A kidnapper would have had even less time than the McCanns. So if you say a kidnapper had time you have to logically accept that the McCanns did too. Also, if she died shortly after 6pm the McCanns had 4 hours to move the body out of the apartment. They had until around 10pm. If she died nearer 8pm, they had over 2 hours. That’s plenty of time! Gerry McCann acknowledges this - he said in a public statement on his blog, “Kate and I are totally 100% confident in each other’s innocence,�?/B> so he explicitly accepts that they both had an opportunity to do it. Now look at the alternative, the McCanns say the kidnapper had a five minute window of opportunity to enter, sedate, snatch, exit and dash or he was already in the building when McCann was there and left a couple of minutes later while McCann was still in sight. The time frame doesn’t help the McCanns, it crucifies them - all the evidence does - that is why Kate McCann’s Portuguese lawyer suggested she accept the plea bargain.
on 22 November, 2007 at 3:17 am 30 CindyOkay, Steph, but you haven’t answered “why�?they would kill Madeleine? From all accounts they were devoted to her. And, where would they hide her body? The entire resort area was crawling with police all night. Did the McCanns even have a rental car at that time?
on 22 November, 2007 at 4:03 am 31 steph@ Cindy Who says they deliberately set out to kill her? Assume it was unintentional, there was still motive to hide the body, and a dead child Maddie’s age could fit into a holdall if she was folded up. Moving her wouldn’t have been difficult. She could have been carried out and if the McCanns had assistance from their party, which is the police theory, it was even easier. Also they had time to hide her before the police arrived at 10.40. Also their friends movements haven’t been accounted for, especially Jane Tanner. Statistically more children are killed by their parents than are kidnapped and it was possible to dispose of the body. The McCanns lawyer and the police both think there is a case against them. Could you honestly say the kidnapping theory has an air of reality about it?
on 22 November, 2007 at 8:35 pm 32 CindySupposing that Maddie died accidentally from an overdose of sedatives,this would have been viewed as a tragic accident �?not intentional,no charges laid �?and although it might have been awkward for the McCanns for a time, it would soon be forgotten. The fallout would have been a lot less horrendous than what they’re going through now. And if they *had* been trying to cover up a tragedy of this sort, why whip up such a media frenzy? I don’t agree that it’s inconceivable that someone was watching the McCann’s movements, dining habits etc. Waited for Gerry to go back to the cafe at nine, and simply walked in and carried Maddie away. Much stranger things have happened. Like the Michael Dunahee case right here in B.C. Where the child �?about 4 years old at the time, I believe �?disappeared from a crowded park while his mother played softball and his father looked on. He has never been found. The 48 hours news program, last Saturday, showed where a predator could have stood concealed on an upstairs balcony across the street from the McCann’s apartment. From that vantage point, he would have had a clear view of the gate the McCann’s left from, as well as the Tapas bar. Further, waiters and other witnesses have stated that the McCanns were relaxed and completely normal. If they had just killed Maddie and concealed her body, I doubt that would have been possible. And where were the twins when all this murder and mayhem were going on? Forensic tests have shown they were not drugged. I may be wrong, but I’ve been following the story, and I don’t believe the McCanns had anything to do with Maddie’s disappearance.
They are, however, guilty of negligence. To leave small children alone in an unlocked apartment is putting them at risk for just this sort of tragedy.
on 22 November, 2007 at 8:44 pm 33  PatchI am disgusted that the media and government are seeking to protect these vile people. It seems that money and political connections can buy you immunity from prosecution in a probable murder, or at least manslaughter, case.There isn’t one shred of evidence that the child was abducted and the 9 friends have consistently lied and refused to answer questions. We live in a country where it is one rule for the rich and another for the poor. Gordon Brown is conspiring to help these people avoid justice. I shall never vote Labour again. We demand justice for Madeleine. We demand the truth from these despicable liars.
on 23 November, 2007 at 1:30 am 34 steph@ Cindy It’s irrational to suggest that the McCanns are innocent - there is no “air of reality�?in their kidnap theory, which would be the first of its kind in the EU. We already established that the McCanns had means and opportunity. Motive isn’t an issue because statistically parent are more likely to kill their children than strangers. Take your first paragraph - this is such media rubbish - as a lawyer, who practices in the EU, let me tell you that you can’t administer a sedative uncessarily to child so you can go out on the tiles. You are looking at a custodial sentence. If you were a doctor you would probably face a murder charge. Also if Maddie died at their hands, they’ve lost their other children.
on 23 November, 2007 at 2:38 am 35 steph@ Cindy i don’t agree that it’s inconceivable that someone was watching the McCann’s movements, dining habits etc. Then you are saying the McCanns were placed under close surveillance - prove it! Show me a single piece of evidence that supports that theory, which has been investigated to the point of destruction by the Portuguese. Also, the McCanns hadn’t established a routine but if they were under surveillance, the kidnappers knew there were nine adults in their party. See my post
on 23 November, 2007 at 2:39 am 36 steph@ Cindy From that vantage point, he would have had a clear view of the gate the McCann’s left from, as well as the Tapas bar. The point is ludicrous because the Portuguese police have investigated every occupant, of every room, of every building, that had a vantage point of the McCanns�?front door. Also, no person observing them leave, would have known the door was unlocked, and they wouldn’t have entered or existed the building in waving distance of Gerry McCann. The Portuguese and Spanish aren’t treating this as a kidnap for a reason. It all comes back to air of reality - there is none in the kidnap theory.
on 23 November, 2007 at 3:03 am 37 steph@ Patch Absolutely, I believe in the presumption of innocence, due process and that every one should be equal before the law, prince and pauper. This clearly isn’t the case here, the Portuguese prosecutor allowed them to flee the country because of political pressure being brought to bear by the British government. The thing about favours is they have to be paid back. The British government wouldn’t have done that for just anyone, they did it because this is a well connected man. This government has form for letting well connected people walk free - most of them, card carrying members of the Labour Party, who know people in or close to Government. To think Labour came to power on the back of anti-sleaze campaign.
on 25 November, 2007 at 12:29 am 38  TorrensI agree it wasn’t an abduction. Absolutely no evidence, no one saw anything, there’s only J tanner’s word she saw a man with a child, not a scrap of evidence in the apartment, zilch. Strange how the parents shot back to England once named arguidos and then hired the lawyer who seems to specialise in stopping extradition (Pinochet). Why? What do they need him for? All the efforts to try to get people to believe in an abduction �?why? The police say Madeleine is most likely dead, yet the McCanns act like they’re both deaf. Their obsession with abduction is strange, like they’re scared if they stop saying that word people might actually start thinking of some other cause for Maddie’s disappearance. Something stinks in this case, definitely.
on 26 November, 2007 at 1:45 am 39 steph@ Torrens It’s not so much their obsession with kidnap theory (what else are they going to say?); it’s their deliberate attempts to sabotage the kidnap investigation and their refusal to entertain the notion that their friends could be involved. They went public, when the police advised them not to, if they genuinely beleived she had been kidnapped, why do that? No kidnap experts would have advised them to do that, the British police didn’t. I said this at the time.
on 5 December, 2007 at 4:06 pm 40  JonAgreed, guilty as hell. Right from the start I had no doubt. As soon as the tide turned they ran for their lives, if that’s not an admission of guilt I don’t know what is. They then have the cheek to use the donation money on themselves. I hope they do get caught, but I fear they will get off with it.
on 10 December, 2007 at 1:02 am 41  NickI “know�?that the Portuguese police on the basis of admissible forensic evidence and overwhelming circumstantial evidence beleived they had sufficient evidence to charge. @ Steph How do you “know�?this? How do you “know�?what forensic evidence the Portuguese police have?
on 10 December, 2007 at 11:49 pm 42  Rob@ Nick Because they said it. Please refer to the previous posts and comments.
on 12 December, 2007 at 9:24 am 43 Nick@ Rob. Yes I agree but they did also say at times that they were ruling nothing out and exploring all avenues. I’m trying to piece together in my mind whichpieces of “evidence�?or events we actually know for sure and which are speculation. For example with the forensic evidence we have no idea what the results are. I do agree though that it seems to me the police have some very compelling evidence and this should be heard in court.
on 15 December, 2007 at 3:41 am 44 kikiHi Stephi
WOW you have been writing very good posts girl, i readed few now�?i’m OK, today i felt a bit down, but i’m feeling better just getting a flu 
Hope is all fine with you, your bro. and Amie, hugs for them,
I didn’t know about that of what their private investigator found!..Anyway, how they explain the fact of a dead body..f her child…have been in their car????
And yes this Tanner one now, i doubt her too…and i’m guessing that they will never go into court..but are guilty oh yes they are!
Ok, i want to wish you a nice weekend,
Hugs2you, Ciao Stephi,
xxx
Kiki
on 15 December, 2007 at 4:51 pm 45 stephHi Kiki Thanks you. I hope you’re feeling better. My Mama’s cure for flu: stand under an ice cold shower and freeze your tits off!!! Stephi cure for flu: Sit on the sofa with a blanket and hot water bottle and get waited on. I think my cure is best  I don’t know what the McCanns investigators are doing but it’s not finding Maddie, you know what they specialise in? Illegally bugging telephone conversations! I think you are right that they won’t go to court. Hugs & XXX Ciao Steph
on 9 January, 2008 at 1:56 am 46  mary nichollsYour responses on here are unbelievable!! The parents went to a tapas restuarant to eat. No, they shouldnt have left their children, they are now paying for their mistake and with what consequences! They know they were in the wrong but it does not help to get their daughter back where she belongs! The majority in the UK beleive their story and will do our utmost to get little Maddy where she belongs. The parents are going through hell!! I and most of us in UK believe Maddy has been kidnapped. You are in the minority here. Let us pray that she is reunited with her parents. Negativity from you and your cronies dosent get us anywhere!
on 9 January, 2008 at 1:42 pm 47 Rob@ Mary The majority of the British public believe that the McCanns are involved in Maddie’s death and lets have it right only a complete fucking retard would believe that Maddie is still alive. The British public aren’t still donating to the McScamsters personal saving fund anymore. Face facts - the McCanns are suspected child killers, who have escaped justice because of political and financial connections.
Dear Steph, Me and the rest of the Admin team invite you you join us at http://the3arguidos.makeforum.org open discussion with no censorship on the issue quite unlike some tabloid we have had trouble with. hope to see you on board soon. regards NBrado
on 9 January, 2008 at 6:37 pm 49  kittiMary I dont know where you live perhaps CLOUD CUCKOO LAND but MOST and i mean MOST OFF THE BRITISH PUBLIC do NOT believe the McCanns story and some didnt even really believe it from day one. The parents are guilty, they will be proved to be liers and they will be JAILED. |
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on 10 January, 2008 at 10:26 pm 50  FSESteph Hi�?. I have been commenting on the McCann story on the London Stock Exchange boards …ADVFN to be precise, where there is an active discussion thread which has unfortunately degenerated into mud slinging �?BR>as is so typical for the intelligencia of the UK.
I actually live in Canada. I share many of your views.
I feel that there is evidence to charge McCanns and that their PR machine is perverting the course of justice. I will post my comments here that I have made on ADVFN rgds
on 10 January, 2008 at 10:36 pm 51 FSELittle lengthy�?apologies but in line with what Steph suggests�?a viewpoint I share.
So For what its worth…from ADVFN my post 6 Jan�?8 - 16:32 - 8210 of 8563 edit �?I think that you and others are confusing how a lot of us (doubters) look at this case.
It is a “case�?albeit not brought to court ( yet?) There does not have to be a body and people are convicted on far less and on circumstantial evidence.
If it were not for the McCanns high profile and special treatment they almost certainly would have been charged.
There is evidence in abundance and if it was all to be presented in a court of law with the various players on hand at the same time to answer questions I feel we would most definitely get to the bottom of this.
We do not know the scope and range of the JP information but they do have a lot of evidence (provable or not) they also have motive. You could say there are 3 options here�? the child wandered off in which case she would have been found by now or her body found should she have drowned in a pool etc etc
The 2nd is that she was taken “abducted”�? but in this respect there is no credible evidence at all save Tanners testimony that Murat and some long haired mediterranean looking chap were involved.
There is no ransom demand, no body has been found, the odds are stacked against this happening.
The 2nd option “abduction�?is therefore basically a dead end
The 3rd option is that there was an accident and the parents were involved.
Its all we have to go on.
Its by default that the McCanns credibility is called into question. None of us want to see this family put through any more pain, maybe they are not involved and some scenario that none of us can visualise happened.
The way it is now they are presumed guilty of something by the masses and this can not be a good situation for them.
If they had their opportunity to tell their story it would remove so much of the doubt, maybe we will never know what happened to Madeleine but the parents could be removed as suspects if this was presented with all the evidence. I agree totally that the JP must now charge them or Murat or they must be allowed to get on with their lives. They have 2 small children to bring up.
Murat has a life to rebuild. I am certainly not part of any lynch mob as has been suggested. I just feel they should give their version of the story as they do have a lot to answer.
To allow them to walk away from this sets a very bad precedent indeed.
I just hope it comes to a head very soon or is dropped completely.
on 11 January, 2008 at 12:14 am 52 steph@ Mary Please don’t pretend that you’re interested in the safe return of Maddie - she’s dead! The majority in the UK believe their story and will do our utmost to get little Maddy where she belongs. The parents are going through hell!! Let us pray that she is reunited with her parents. Negativity from you and your cronies doesn’t get us anywhere! You’re repeating Clarence Mitchell, the thoroughly disreputable and despicable, former government head of propaganda and McCann campaign manager. So are you a McCann campaigner or are you too dim-witted to realise you’re repeating campaign slogans?
on 11 January, 2008 at 12:22 am 53 steph@ Kitti Over 80% in most opinion polls think they’re defintely guilty or probably guilty. I bet even more think they shouldn’t have received preferential treatment and be exempt from due process of law in Portugal, just because they happen to be British. I’m sure Mary does know that the vast majority of people believe the McCanns are guilty, but the McCann campaign feels the need to be obscure uncomfortable facts, which lies, emotional blackmail and irrelevancies.
on 11 January, 2008 at 12:23 am 54 steph@ Rob your last paragraph is the most important fact about this case.
on 11 January, 2008 at 1:17 am 55 stephFSE The McCann campaign team is clearly attempting to pervert the course of justice, and you rightly say it’s about due process not whether they’re guilty or innocent. The Portuguese public prosecutor has admitted that the McCanns were allowed to leave in a deal done with the British government and that both David Miliband and Gordon Brown were actively involved in the case. The deal should never have happened. There is no sugar coating it, they were allowed to leave Portugal because Gordon Brown is bent and was able to bully the Portuguese. There is a difference between the adversial system and the inquisitorial one but the first question is the same in both systems, is there a prima facie case? The answer to that is yes there is. The lack of any evidence of kidnap would be enough to hang a conviction on in England, so they could be charged with manslaugter over here. btw The reason manslaughter and not murder is there wouldn’t be evidence to prove “malice aforethought�? When media reports say the Portuguese police believe that she was accidentally killed that’s not strictly speaking true, they know they could never prove intention to kill.
on 11 January, 2008 at 5:37 pm 56 FSESteph�? “A suggestion�?What is your take on the Robert Murat affair. He appears set up to me.
If he has anything to do with this he would have legged it so to speak ages ago. He was made a suspect on the say so of McCanns and their publicity team through what appears to me to be a fabricated Jane Tanner testimony.
I know someone like you could blow that apart.
I would love to have her on a witness stand.
Have you seen the you tube of her…�? I understand he (Murat) is a property agent so that would explain his hanging around. He readily offered to translate and be of assistance.
For this they have tried to make a scape goat or more accurately use him as a smoke screen. The man’s life is in tatters.
If you agree he is innocent maybe he could use your most erudite services.
Maybe he does not have much money but I am sure he could make a book deal�?that I would like to read�?and then he could surely afford your services. I suppose I am jumping the gun in assuming you feel he is not involved.
I am sure though that he could use your help�? What do you think ? rgds FSE
on 11 January, 2008 at 5:41 pm 57 FSEThe Pamela Fenn story�?/P> The day before Madeleine went missing the elderly Pam Fenn told Police that she had heard Kate McCann sreaming irrationally at the children.
She claims that she heard a little girl sobbing and demanding to see her father�?BR>Pam was in the apartment directly above McCanns. Now we are told that she has changed her story and said she heard nothing.
My understanding is that Clarence Mitchell and the McCann team got to her �?/P> This whole affair stinks to ****
on 11 January, 2008 at 6:17 pm 58 FSESteph�?re my post Jan 11th Murat.
You have my e mail if you do not want to comment on here initially..
Is there a special reason that the police have not charged the McCanns with abandonment and neglect?
According to the Children’s Act, they should have had done so. The act does not specify the country in which the abandonment or neglect takes place.
246. �?1) It shall be an offence for any person who has the custody, charge or care of a child wilfully to assault, ill-treat, neglect, abandon or expose the child, or cause or procure or allow the child to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned or exposed, in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to the child’s health or seriously to affect his or her well being.
on 12 January, 2008 at 5:01 pm 60 FSEYesterday there was a post form one “Al�?AKA Hopi to us on the LSE financial board.
He was rather rude and was deleted. Here is what he wanted to ask!
I_Hopi - 12 Jan�?8 - 16:12 - 8637 of 8642 FSE It’s her blog and she deletes any legit�?criticism. Also as a lawyer she should have heard of the European Arrest Warrant. She makes a big thing out of the McCann’s leaving Portugal. With alleged help from Gordon Brown :o) It doesn’t matter where the McCann’s are within Europe. The PJ can have them arrested ANYWHERE within Europe, ANYTIME. Why don’t they? Because the PJ don’t have a case, that’s why. Ask ’steph the lawyer�?about the EAW. Mind she doesn’t delete you. :o)
on 12 January, 2008 at 5:15 pm 61 FSEI_Hopi - 12 Jan�?8 - 16:55 - 8641 of 8645 Ask her about this :- Anthony Bennett “LAWYER’S NEGLECT CASE IS THROWN OUT FSE> Steph�? actually I was wondering about this also. He seemed to suddenly drop the affair like a hot potato�?bit like poor old Pam Fenn
on 13 January, 2008 at 12:46 am 62 steph@ FSE It is obvious the McCanns have tasked M3 with trying to incriminate Robert Murat and not with finding their daughter. If M3 were truly investigating this as a kidnapping, they wouldn’t have excluded the Tapas 7 as suspects. The McCanns�?defence team ought to consider Jane Tanner as an alternative suspect. Murat could sue British newspapers for libel, in the English courts. I can’t really see why he doesn’t but he hasn’t been charged with any offence. He has no right under the ECHR to have his status as a suspect lifted. The police are entitled to view a person as a suspect indefinitely.
on 13 January, 2008 at 1:12 am 63 steph@ FSE There is an extraordinary amount of witness tampering going on. The Portuguese police have a statutory obligation to protect suspects and witnesses from harassment and intimidation. They have already felt it necessary to issue warnings to M3 and the McCanns - I find this odd. In Portugal, private investigators aren’t allowed to investigate crimes without the permission of the court or police. So you’d have thought that would have been evidence of witness intimidation.
on 13 January, 2008 at 2:17 am 64 steph@ FSE I have never deleted any legitimate criticism, as anyone who reads my blog will see, but I will delete comments that fail to abide by the comments policy. The commentator is wrong the PJ can’t obtain a European Arrest Warrant (EAW) at all. The decision to seek an EAW isn’t a police one, it’s a political one. The Portuguese government allowed the McCanns (suspects in a child homicide) to leave the jurisdiction under pressure from the Gordon Brown, even though the police were seeking to charge them. Also, an EAW isn’t an extradition order. There is nothing to prevent the McCanns from arguing that they shouldn’t be extradited to Portugal. They might argue they couldn’t expect to receive a fair trial under article 6 of the ECHR. Their lawyer represented Pinochet in an extradition hearing - he lost the case but Jack Straw still refused to extradite Pinochet for political reasons. BTW Straw has control over which judge hears the case. The main issue is that the PJ are being prevented from re-interviewing their prime suspects and material witnesses (or possible suspects) prior to charge. They can’t use an EAW to get around that.
on 13 January, 2008 at 2:28 am 65 steph@ Mariana Is there a special reason that the police have not charged the McCanns with abandonment and neglect? Good point. There is no explanation why they weren’t charged with child neglect in Portugal, technically they still could. The reason they weren’t charged in England is that the Magistrate court decided it didn’t have the jurisdiction.
on 13 January, 2008 at 2:51 am 66 steph@ FSE I have enourmous respect for Tony Bennett because he proved that it was only jurisdiction issue that prevented the McCanns from being prosecuted for child neglect. And disproved the lie that the McCanns did what any decent parent would do.
on 13 January, 2008 at 9:41 am 67  miguelbtsa(Admin)hola saludos desde España yo creo que maddie ya no va a aparecer ,decian que podia estar en España y aqui no han encontrado nada.
http://real1902.wordpress.com/
on 13 January, 2008 at 4:38 pm 68 FSE>steph�?Thanks for your balanced comment.
It all sounds very convoluted.
I was stunned when they just allowed the McCanns to track on back to the UK. Do you think this will all stay under the rug or what could give in this case�?BR>I would have thought Murat had a case against McCanns team for false accusation which has resulted in loss of income and credibility in area where he spends so much time.
Surely they must be accountable in some way for ruining his life. I am also amazed that child protection groups have not gone after these 2 for their actions�?
on 13 January, 2008 at 5:10 pm 69 miguelbtsa(Admin)saludillos
http://alminuto.wordpress.com/
on 14 January, 2008 at 7:54 pm 70 FSEWorth looking at !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT8QJL9nlaw&feature=related
on 15 January, 2008 at 1:41 am 71 steph@ FSE I don’t know enough about Portuguese law to know whether the McCanns could be prosecuted for witness intimidation but I would have thought so. I am aware that they could be prosecuted for abandoning their children under Portuguese law but as they have refused to return to Portugal until their arguido status is removed, I think it is unlikely. As far as we know the social services have only made one safe and well check are other two children on the at risk register? Social services would normally have applied to take the children into care, the parents are suspected of killing their other child. It says a lot about political corruption in the UK - Gordon Brown’s intervention was clearly an abuse of office.
on 15 January, 2008 at 2:06 am 72 steph@ FSE If I was acting for Murat, I would issue a public statement saying that my client denies all accusations that he was involved in the murder or kidnap of Maddie, and is in no position to doubt the PJ’s conclusion, that Maddie was killed by her parents.
on 15 January, 2008 at 9:30 pm 73 FSESteph�?I think you should give Murat a call and sort out his position for him. His lawyer does not appear to handling it very well if at all.
I just feel you could unravel some of this. What about the Tanner testimony �?would it not make sense to approach it from that end.
Thats the main reason he is still suspect. We know from witness accounts that Tanner was not in the alleyway when she claims to have seen Madeleine.
We know she erupted at him during a Police interview.
We know that it was impossible to see the pink Pyjamas due to the street lighting being the type that makes colour distinction impossible. I would have thought that your background and knowledge of the whole affair could put him in a much better position. Maybe even work with his lawyer. I just wish someone would give this guy a hand. His life has been ruined and I feel sorry for him and his elderly mother. Maybe the guy is a bit strange and not everyones cup of tea.
But he in no way deserves this type of treatment. Also I belive by helping Murat you would flush the whole affair into the open and they (McCanns) would be forced to explain themselves.
This is perhaps the greatest mystery (of its type) ever ?
on 16 January, 2008 at 8:41 pm 74  KyleSteph.
I agree with your points 100%.
I wished people like yourself could get involved in this case. I feel a better chance of justice for Maddie would be the outcome.
Can i ask why people like yourself who have clearly got the know how and intelligence on these legal matters, do not set up a Fund which the public can donate too, this will allow an impartial justice campaign to be set up with out it been steered by close friends and family like the one in place at present. This fund in my opinion would raise more money and prove the public opinion is against them.
People like you can make a difference and help defend the good of all and not the connected few.
I hope you consider this proposal and take on the corrupt system we are all witnessing. I am sure that there would be many people prepared to assist, it just needs a leader who will forge the way forward.
If you want to see true justice �?Fight �?
It would be such a shame for a Lady of your integrity to leave it at a blog board.
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on 16 January, 2008 at 11:26 pm 75 steph@ FSE I know it seems like his lawyer is mishandling the case because he is not as proactive as the Clarence Mitchell in the media, and to be honest, I think he’s press statements have been poor. But Mitchell is a spin doctor Murat’s lawyer isn’t and I don’t think Mitchell is doing the McCanns many favours, look at the money they haven’t raised. As Murat hasn’t been charged with anything it would be unethical for his lawyer to run up huge legal costs chasing his tail. There is very little that he can do now because the law isn’t designed for this sort of press intrusion. I wouldn’t volunteer to take his case because I’m not familiar with Portuguese law. I don’t do lawyers sticking up lawyers because of professional etiquette, but in this case, I don’t think Murat’s lawyer could of done much more.
on 16 January, 2008 at 11:39 pm 76 steph@ Kyle Thank you for that excellent comment from spudgun. It’s to long for the comments section here but I’d be more than happy to publish it as a post, if he agrees. If not, do you have a link? Steph x
on 16 January, 2008 at 11:50 pm 77 stephThank you Kyle I hope I’m proved wrong but sadly, I don’t think anyone will be brought to justice for the death of Maddie McCann. Raising money isn’t the answer look at the millions of Euros spent by the Portuguese authorities. I think the way forward, if you see my post “Getting away with murder�?/FONT>, is to highlight that the behaviour of the British government and media has been extraordinary.
on 17 January, 2008 at 7:17 pm 78 Simon@ FSE. I agree with Steph, Murat is only a named suspect, he hasn’t been charged with anything. His lawyer can’t prepare a defence unless he is but after 8 months, I’d say he is in the clear.
on 17 January, 2008 at 7:47 pm 79 KyleSteph. I will try to find the link �?it was posted on a Yahoo blog.
My computer skills are not great but if I find the link then I will pass it on to you. So it seems there is no such thing as justice in this day and age. Verdicts can be bought with wealth, how very disheartening for the wider mankind. In fact it seems we are going backwards …one rule for the rich and one for the poor, or as it always really been that way?? It would be quite a team yourself and the author of that post. It gives me faith in humankind that there are people who can see through this terrible injustice and have got the levels of intelligence needed to challenge it. I cannot understand how it is possible for them to �?Get away with Murder �? surely case law will demonstrate that people have been convicted of crimes of similar magnitude, with less evidence that I am confident will be produced in this case.
(That been said, I am better not talking about law as I am completely out my depth in such subjects). You have at least shown me with your views and comments that there are people who care for us less academic and of average standing. I hope you reach a position in life where you can have a major influence with your outlook and sense of fairplay. Kyle
on 20 January, 2008 at 8:51 pm 80 FSEhttp://orange.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=15297304&from=9008 see my post 9012
LOL
on 20 January, 2008 at 8:52 pm 81 FSE
on 20 January, 2008 at 8:53 pm 82 FSETried to upload an image of a typical North African male of that age�? hence blank post above.
You can see what I mean though in the link i provided
on 21 January, 2008 at 8:29 pm 83 Kylesteph .. “gerry mccann blogs pamalam�?/P> If you type the above in a search engine you will find the piece by Spudgun, who is a journalist it seems.
The site is very good, worth viewing!
“A story for christmas by spudgun�?<<that is the piece I sent you to read.
on 22 January, 2008 at 3:01 pm 84 steph@ FSE I can’t see that post, it’s not open to unregistered users.
on 22 January, 2008 at 3:02 pm 85 stephThanks Kyle It is a great piece. It’s long but well worth reading.
on 22 January, 2008 at 5:45 pm 86 FSESteph�?. Basically I posted 3 pictures
A typical North African male, Clarence Mitchell idea of what a North African Male looks like ie the identikit. then the Rolling Stone picture of George Harrison. You guessed it the Identikit looks nothing whatsoever like a North African. Its utter nonsense. BTW in a recent poll done with CNN 94% of people said they did not believe Clarence Mitchell & McCanns�? insane ?
on 24 January, 2008 at 10:24 pm 87  KaziaGerry and Kate and the Tapas 9 were busy swinging in Portugal and getting plastered on the night of Maddie’s supposed abduction by an invisible man. For so called well educated people they do talk a load of crap. We have seen Gerry McCann demurely calling for Maddie to “come back your sister and brother need you�?when he and his bride were the cause of her death is beyond words. They are the luckiest people alive. Disposed of one child with two remaining. Behaving like celebrities and manipulating the press to their advantage, together with wasting public funds. Filling the maximum amount of air space possible with absolute nonsense. Their sentence will be 6 months community service working for Social Services as Kate now feels she wants to help children instead of helping them die. She has turned over a new leaf.
on 29 January, 2008 at 12:10 pm 88  suzyoneSteph What seems to be happening to all the sites which criticise the mccanns? I hope you don’t get closed down! Thanks for your good posts.
on 29 January, 2008 at 2:12 pm 89 steph@ Suzyone I haven’t touched on the McCanns recently because I had nothing new to say. I’m disgusted that the commercially driven media are negotiating a million dollar interview with a pair of suspected baby killers but it doesn’t surprise me. As the Portuguese PJ said, the McCanns are using diversionary tactics but they have fallen flat on their faces. The supposedly independent witnesses, who saw Murat, saw David Payne. And the latest hoax - the pig farmer or tramp - both clearly had nothing to do with Maddie’s murder. On a more serious level, the Home Office are still holding up the questioning of the McCanns, but the Portuguese media have reported that the judiciary wants this case to proceed to court, so there might be some very interesting developments soon.
on 29 January, 2008 at 4:16 pm 90 FSEYes I feel we have not heard the end of this one by a long shot.
Maybe the McCanns can explain themselves but at least they should be given the opportunity to do so in a more formal environment where they are required to answer all the questions not just the ones that suit them. Oprah Winfrey will not be a push over should the TV show choose to run the story.
I met Oprah quite some years ago in Florida as my neighbour used to produce her show.
I have to say she is the genuine article.
They will not pull the wool over her eyes easily and I cant see Oprah sticking to an agreed list of questions, she might agree but then ask what she wants in any event�?/P> This new initiative by the McCann media circus has not turned one thing of value up and does look to be more concoction �?.
on 29 January, 2008 at 5:09 pm 91 stephI have never watched Oprah, so I can’t comment on her style but I don’t think they should be paying any suspect in a homicide when the investigation is still underway. I’m still doubtful that the Portuguese will prosecute them, they clearly have sufficient evidence to proceed and they haven’t yet.
on 30 January, 2008 at 5:05 pm 92 FSEI fail to see how the stalling by Jacqui Smith is in any way hindering the hunt for Madeleine.
It nevertheless clearly is having the effect of shielding McCanns and the Tapas 7 from answering question that they so far have escaped ! Jacqui Smith ‘hurting Madeleine McCann hunt�?BR>By Lucy Cockcroft
Last Updated: 11:49am GMT 30/01/2008 Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has been accused of bringing Madeleine McCann investigation to “a stalemate�? In full: The Madeleine McCann investigation
Police in Portugal said the nine-month case has stalled because the Home Office has still not approved their request to re interview the seven friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann the night their daughter went missing. advertisement A formal letter was sent to Whitehall on January 7, but according to Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha there has been so response. British police cannot carry out the interviews on behalf of their Portuguese counterparts until the request has been rubber-stamped by the Home Secretary. And Portuguese police claim they cannot progress with their investigation until the interrogations are carried out. A source said the latest delay had stalled the entire case, adding: “There seems to be no sense of urgency on their part. But we cannot proceed until these interrogations have been carried out. It is a stalemate.�?/P> The letter from Portuguese investigators also listed a number of personal items they want seized from the McCanns, including Mrs McCann’s diary, Mr McCann’s personal laptop and Madeleine’s Cuddle Cat toy. A Home Office spokesman refused to confirm if it had received the letters of appeal from the Portuguese police. McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “For some months now we have actively offered to assist this process, to get it underway as soon as possible. “Kate and Gerry’s friends are keen that it should happen soon and want any bureaucracy - whether it’s in Portugal or England - to be cleared quickly.�?/P> Madeleine went missing on May 3 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, while her parents and their friends ate at a tapas restaurant just yards away.
on 30 January, 2008 at 6:23 pm 93 steph@ FSE I fail to see how the stalling by Jacqui Smith is in any way hindering the hunt for Madeleine It isn’t and that’s not what they mean. The answers to the questions are significant to the McCanns�?defence. The Portuguese prosecutor wants them to answer these question before he charging them. That’s what they mean about bringing the investigation to a stalemate.
on 30 January, 2008 at 6:32 pm 94 FSEsteph…exactly! we are on the same page. I just got a kick out of the way they bent the news around to suit themselves yet again ! You have to wonder if Team McCann considered is as unimportant as Clarence remarked then why bring it up ! I see they are also threatening to sue all who dare question anything they say.
on 30 January, 2008 at 9:33 pm 95 FSEFrom LSE BB I urge everyone to contact the Home Secretery ASAP and ask her to allow the continuation of this investigation. http://www.jacquismithmp.co.uk/contact_me Thats my email sent: ********************** Dear Miss Smith, As you are aware the Madeleine MaCann case is very distressing for all concerned and has attracted a lot of world wide attention. Today I read an article in the Daily Mail that suggests the Police Investigation is being held up by your office. With the greatest respect, no one is yet aware of what has happened to this poor child and until we do the 2 other children of the family need to be taken into consideration. I urge you and your office to fully co-operate with both sets of Police forces and allow them to do their jobs without political interference as soon as possible. Yours Sincerely, Lisa
on 4 February, 2008 at 10:02 pm 96 FSEMight be wrong but I dont think we have heard the end of this by a long shot. I notice the Police have NOT dropped them as suspects.
I am also not sure what to make about this lake search.
There is a strong attempt to cover this up and make it go away�? could go either way.
on 5 February, 2008 at 2:05 am 97 stephI think it will be extremely difficult to bring a prosecution now. Also the political ramifications of the McCanns being convicted would be enourmous. Gordon Brown’s position would be untenable.
on 13 February, 2008 at 6:08 pm 98 KyleSteph.. Who cares about the ramifications!
Surely its about Justice, and not anything else. Gordon Brown i beleive was duped like many others in the early stages of this investigation, and thus cannot be held accountable.
Furthermore it could be argued that he tried to help what he thought was a genuine abduction of a british citizen (in the early stages) and if it had of been the case, he would probably have been looked on as a “Hero.�? Don’t get me wrong i am angry that the McCanns were offered more support than most British Citizens would have received, but the case is not about that for me. I feel that if the evidence ( which i beleive will be produced ), shows that the parents are Guilty, ( Which i beleive they are ) then that they should be charged and convicted. Are you suggesting that because of “rammifications for others�?they will be Let Off, which if turns out to be the case is utterly disgusting. Are the general public allowed to apply to see what the evidence against the Mccanns was if the case falls through? Is there a freedom of information act that can be used to gain the case file. Surely at this late stage there is more reason to follow it through to conclusion.
The fact remains a Child is missing and for the case to go this far, it demonstates that there are factors which cannot be overlooked or dismissed. your thoughts
on 13 February, 2008 at 10:36 pm 99 steph@ Kyle Duped? I can’t buy that, he was involved before and after they became official suspects. The British police and intelligence services were involved in the investigation, so he must have been advised that there was a strong likelihood that they were guilty. Whatever his motives, his actions were an obvious abuse of office, and if they are convicted God help him. Should that make a difference to the investigation? No of course not. Will it make a difference? Yes.
on 14 February, 2008 at 4:21 pm 100 stephIt is a fact that he knowingly supported suspected child killers. The Portuguese prosecutor has publicly acknowledged this. |
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REPOSTED to avoid 'stretching' | | 7 November, 2007 by steph Somethings beggar belief: like the claim that Maddie McCann was kidnapped on the 3 May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Portugal - she wasn’t! - there isn’t one iota of evidence that supports that theory. But there is plenty of forensic and circumstantial evidence to support the police theory that Maddie was killed in the McCanns apartment, and that her little body was hidden, then later moved in the Renault Scenic that Gerry McCann hired 25 days after her death. Whether or not that forensic evidence is conclusive, the circumstantial evidence alone would be enough to secure a conviction in most countries. The McCann version of events just isn’t credible - it is downright irrational to believe Maddie was kidnapped when there is no evidence to support that story. The McCanns claim that they went on holiday to Portugal, left their three little children unattended in an unlocked apartment to go to the pub with friends and when they came back their daughter was missing. That would be believable if she wondered off and was found dead nearby. But the McCann never entertained the idea that she wondered off, they always said she was kidnapped. Even though they have no evidence - and none has turned up since - they maintain that some phantom crept into their apartment, took their daughter without being seen or heard, and then left without leaving a single trace of evidence. Yes officer, she was there in her bed when we went out but when we came back out of our skulls, she was gone. She must have been kidnapped by Moroccan paedophiles. How long do you think before they would have been arrested in the UK on suspicion of murder? The only person who claims to have seen anything remotely suspicious is Jane Tanner, one of the Tapas nine, who says she saw a man (who she can’t identify) carrying a girl in pyjamas on the path away from the apartment - the police can prove that she didn’t. They have two witness statements one from Jeremy Wilkins, who it was talking to Gerry McCann, and another from an unnamed Irish teenage girl; both say that neither Tanner or the phantom were on the path when she claims. That would be enough to charge Tanner with peverting the course of justice in the UK. In normal circumstances, the McCanns would have been charged with their daughter’s killing and remanded in custody awaiting trial, but this hasn’t been a normal case - the McCanns were allowed to flee (and yes they did flee) Portugal to avoid charge. The Portuguese prosecutor has admitted that his decision to let them leave the country was taken to avoid a diplomatic incident with the British government. The British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, visited Portugal the day before. The Portuguese police were understandable furious since this was clearly a political decision and they intended to charge Kate McCann. Since the Foreign Office managed to Shanghai the McCanns from Portugal, the Portuguese police have been impotent. They have no automatic powers to re-interview the McCanns or their friends, Dr Russel O’Brien, Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Dr David Payne (who are expected to be named as arguidos), and so far the British police (who do have the power) have refused to do so. The Portuguese police have been forced to wait on further forensic results from the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham, those results have been inexplicably delayed. The British Government intervention is extraordinary, not only did the current Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary put pressure on the Portuguese government, the Foreign Office also lent the McCanns the despicable Clarence Mitchell, a top government spin doctor, and the McCanns have been able to hire the Government’s favoured mercenaries, ICG. Not something they would do for every Labour Party activist, but then Gerry McCann isn’t every Labour Party activist, he is a very well connected and eminent cardiologist, who happens to sit on the medical ethics panel of COMARE. If the McCanns never face trial in Portugal, it won’t be because they’re innocent, because on the evidence in the public domain, they’re as guilty as hell! That’s why they fled Portugal. | | |
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