Coldwater Post subject: The case as of Today - according to ColdwaterPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:02 am
On Parole
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:10 pm
Posts: 1296 I'm starting this thread yet again - well, first time I've started it since joining 3A's, but there you go.
The last two threads obviously became beasts of monstrous, and due to certain posters, monotonous proportions.
I don't actually agree that I should have a thread where my posts alone are viewable - that is not really the point of a forum and I think the input from everyone is important and useful. However, I would ask certain posters, and you know who you are, to cut down on the shotgun postings and the repetition. It clearly annoys most people and serves very little purpose.
I will also say again that I encourage debate and will answer all the questions I can. This should in no way be seen as a thread where only Anti's are welcome. That is NOT how it should be. But I would ask that ALL posters respect each other here and if you read something you disagree with, then please respond sensibly and courteously.
To kick things off I will repost as much of the stuff I have contributed to these threads as I can find, but it is a big task and any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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Hello everybody.
I've been dabbling with my sources again and thought you might all like to hear the distilled information they have imparted to me - (that which I can reveal, obviously).
Firstly I think it important to say that this investigation is nowhere near closure. As many will know, charges will only arrive when the investigation is officially at an end and not before.
Right now the investigation is focusing on May 2nd 10.00pm through to around 10.00pm May 3rd - a 24hr period in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.
The shift in emphasis to May 2nd is primarily due to the significant lack of independent evidence to support Maddy being seen alive during May 3rd by anyone outside of the TAPAS 9 - and even then only Oldfield actually 'saw' her. Maddy was not present at the creche or children's club. She did not eat with the others and there is NO CCTV footage of her anywhere in the complex or PDL at large beyond the afternoon of May 2nd.
It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.
The theory is now that Maddy died around midnight May 2nd and that her body was concealed in a bag - Gerry's lost/missing/never had one hold all, sports bag no less. It is believed that this bag was stored in another apartment during some part of May 3rd before initial disposal around the mid to late afternoon of May 3rd. The scent of death was well established and the clean up completed during this time frame. The apartment's cleaner was turned away on May 3rd by Kate McCann I am told.
The forensic material examined and the results are strong in places and weak in others. None are conclusive but highly indicative and along with other evidence form a persuasive case. It is no longer considered that Maddy's body was relocated using the Renault Scenic, but that items pertaining to her and taken from her body were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere.
As previously reported the PJ have the bag Gerry is so keen now to deny all knowledge of. It is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only one and not the best.
CCTV footage from MW's reception proves that the TAPAS 9 were, for the most part, lying about the frequency of their checks. This is considered an attempt by ALL TAPAS 9 to stall any charges of negligence. The investigation team are also aware of the attempt within the May 3rd confusion to blur the actual time and circumstances of Maddy's disappearance.
They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex.
Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements, plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido/Arguida status. These two others are seen as complicit in the aftermath of events surrounding Maddy.
Again, as far as my information allows, I can say that there is NO suggestion of pedophile involvement in any way. The DNA of a North European does not mean that this came from semen or that there is any suggestion of sexual abuse. I think we should all sigh with relief over that. There have been errors in translation and information which may have lead some down this murky pathway.
This case is not finished yet and has a way to run. The culprits will not be found in Spain, Portugal or Morocco.
The above has been gleaned and distilled over Christmas from my three friends and sources. I can elucidate on some points but not others.
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I think we are all just going to have to be patient and hold on to the positives of last week.
The FACT that statements have changed, despite what Clarrie might think, is very important. His words, 'substantially the same' speaks volumes. He knows that things have shifted and the outcry over Kate's words last week might have completely erased their Brussles debut, but it also wiped out coverage of the interviews and talk of what might have occurred.
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For instance the CCTV thing rumbles on. I am told that the PJ are in possession of a number of recordings, some of which are from the night of May 3rd. These do not ALL come from what you would traditionally think of as CCTV. They are 'installed' systems of varying quality. They also had something last week which proved to the Tapas 7 that they were not being very accurate about their movements, or lack of, on the night of May 3rd. I assume that this must be some sort of recorded video evidence.
Oldfield. The Oldfield's have provided some good information, so I am told. I was also told a while ago, and have mentioned it before, that he was the last person outside of Gerry, Kate and the twins, to see Madeleine alive. This was on the evening of May 2nd. I await any definitive proof which shows she was alive on May 3rd. The investigation is spanning a 24hr period from 10pm May 2nd to 10pm May 3rd. I also am lead to believe that Oldfield and Kate are, or have been very close indeed
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I have no inside information about how devout the McCanns are. From my own personal observations I would say they used the Catholic fervour in Portugal to remove themselves from any link to the disappearance of their daughter. It was calculated and cold, as was the trip to the Vatican.
Family comments here in the UK seem to cast doubt on just how committed this couple are to the Catholic cause!!
The reaction and mood of the local Catholic priest says much. I think he carries something of a burden. I'm not sure he has heard their confession. He may have of course, but I doubt it. However, I think he knows he has been used and abused - as have all Catholics who offered the McCanns succor based on their faith alone.
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The information I have is that her end was violent, but whether by pure accident or design I have never been told.
I cannot imagine an accident is the key, there would be little need to cover up an accident. It would be embarrassing and potentially fraught with issues of neglect, but I do not feel these would have been pressing enough to warrant such a massive deflection campaign. They seem even now ready and able to embrace the neglect issue if the need arises.
So my opinion that it is something more sinister.
I cannot accept that it was premeditated at this moment. Perhaps I will eventually be proven wrong.
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That pesky abductor, waiting for the cadaver scent to settle. Placing blood beneath a tile and a foot print by the bathroom door. Tidying and cleaning the apartment. Placing hair and DNA samples in more than one car. Changing Maddy's PJ's for her. TXTing Gerry. Leaving stuff in a barn that one of the Tapas 9 was close to.
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It wasn't a blanket. I understand it was on a large sheet of cold metal - forensic evidence was left behind.
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I should just say that, although it is not believe Maddy's body was moved in the scenic, her corpse was moved after initial storage.
The PJ know where and on what her body was kept.
This was a holding measure until a good enough disposal plan was finalised.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the sites identified will yield something.
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Fake or botched abduction does NOT tie in with the fluids and cadaver odour - sorry folks.
They specifically dismissed the 'booked at MW's insistence' baby sitter for the evening of May 3rd BECAUSE Maddy was already dead. This babysitter was NOT present May 2nd late evening or May 1st. Hence the crying May 2nd and the report to MW's.
There is obviously a lot more and stuff in the other archived thread too - but that is enough to be going on with.
Last edited by Coldwater on Thu May 08, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pakeha2007 Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:06 am
Been Cautioned
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 497 Thanks for posting here, Coldwater and here´s hoping the case is solved and on its way to trial before we get to "and then there were four".
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Coldwater Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:09 am
On Parole
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:10 pm
Posts: 1296 pakeha2007 - I think we might be someway beyond version 4 by the time a trial occurs, but we will see.
There definitely WILL be a trial though - without doubt!!
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sprat Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:10 am
Been Cautioned
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:32 pm
Posts: 392 CW - do you know anything about the UK side of the investigation i.e. Fund fraud
btw. sorry about the relegation - seems light years ago I watched them at Highbury
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joepublic Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:10 am
You're Nicked
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:16 pm
Posts: 273 Thanks for started this again. I was very interested in:
'It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.'
So it looks like Gerry could have been moving the body on the afternoon on May 3rd? Do we know what the other couples were doing on that day?
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brandonflours Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:15 am
New In Town
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:09 am
Posts: 72
Location: mighty boosh Does the pyramid done the road have anything to do with it?
or the stolen priests computer at the weekend?
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Coldwater Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:16 am
On Parole
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:10 pm
Posts: 1296 joepublic - it is my understanding that the theory is just that - Gerry moved her at some point during the day of May 3rd. Hence the need for the last photo, the discussion they had with Maddy on the morning of her disappearance, May 3rd - which put the crying, Chaplin's incident at May 2nd.
sprat - there is a very strong UK side to the investigation which supports the PJ's work. There is also work being done on other matters which are more specific to the UK and certain activities here.
I mean, if it were the case that charges relating to Maddy's death were leveled and upheld, then I guess it would follow that a number of crimes have been perpetrated here. Fraud being one of them.
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Coldwater Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:17 am
On Parole
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:10 pm
Posts: 1296 brandonflours - Masonic symbols you mean? Be careful, Gerry might Lodge a complaint!!
As for the computer, there seems to be a lot happening to those this case has touched - and I think there is one hand behind it all!!
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Drummergirl Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:17 am
You're Nicked
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 291
Location: Hotel California Thanks a lot, Coldwater. I hope the puppies are doing OK!
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margaret Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:18 am
Local Lag
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:04 pm
Posts: 760
Location: 'The Pink Crusader' Coldwater wrote:
joepublic - it is my understanding that the theory is just that - Gerry moved her at some point during the day of May 3rd. Hence the need for the last photo, the discussion they had with Maddy on the morning of her disappearance, May 3rd - which put the crying, Chaplin's incident at May 2nd.
.
I thought perhaps the church in a stone crypt, she's being kept cool, perhaps the sheet of metal you mentioned and that's why the priest now feels deceived. But maybe not..
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pakeha2007 Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:18 am
Been Cautioned
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 497 I bow to your superior knowledge, Coldwater.
Since you are here at the moment, could you clear this detail up?
"...Placing hair and DNA samples in more than one car..."
Mmmm?
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Hunger4Unger Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:20 am
Suspect
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:17 pm
Posts: 194
Location: Hull, England CW - for the focus to be on the 2nd (which I don't deny) - it means that the 'last photo' has to be 100% faked/photoshopped.
Despite forum speculation I don't think it has been proven that it has been altered.
Have you any information regrading the PJ's thoughts on this last photo and what they make of it?
Thanks
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JillyComeLately Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:21 am
Mafia Boss
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:39 pm
Posts: 3411 .
Thanks Coldwater, an excellent idea to start this new thread
I was really worried about the outcry here to the Leics Constabulary last week regarding the McCann's new anonymous phoneline and anonymous (hahahahaha) email address. I believe this was mainly McCann-spin to disrupt and demoralise. According to posters here, desk staff at LC sounded really peed off with all the phone calls, emails they were getting on one particular day. Did you get any feedback from your friend regarding this? Also, do you know why LC still have a link to the McCann's official website on their own?
Not trying to derail your thread already, it's just that you're a captive audience here
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starlight Post subject: Re: The case as of Today!! - 3rd time luckyPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:22 am
Suspect
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Leicestershire Coldwater can you say if the McCanns knew Robert Murat before going to PDL or if his Arguido status will be lifted in the near future ?
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