01:17:56 1485 "Did you suggest an intercom to anybody else?�?BR>Reply "Err no I mean, I don’t, you know I, I remember having the discussion with Fi you know, Fiona, with what, what we were gonna do but I didn’t really discuss what other people were gonna do really, you know, which comes back to the bit in the line of questioning you asked me before, do you think everyone knew about what the babysitting was like, and I’m sure I would’ve said that. Err but no we didn’t discuss monitors with anybody else.�?BR>1485 "At the apartment you stayed in with your family at the Ocean Club have you ever left the windows and doors open?�?BR>Reply "Of the, of the apartment?�?BR>1485 "Of your apartment yeah.�?BR>Reply "Err we, well I’d like to think that every time we went out that all the doors were shut, we never knowingly left the apartment with the doors or windows open and you know, it was good having Dianne there because she’s a very good safe, safe for everything like you know she’d, you know, so not knowingly did we ever leave them and to my recollection they were never open.�?BR>1485 "Okay.�?BR>Reply "You know if we were in the apartment, different, but if we left it then no.�?BR>01:19:25 1485 "Okay. Okay David it’s time to get your phone out. Can I just confirm what mobile phone number you have please?�?BR>Reply "Yeah, its ******************, . This is not the phone that I had on the night. This is a, a new phone that I’ve had since then, quite a few of the numbers I’ve transferred across.�?BR>1485 "Right.�?BR>Reply "But I haven’t got all the numbers that I originally had on that phone.�?BR>1485 "Okay. I’m gonna go through a series of numbers and I want you to have a look in your phone book and see whether you can tell me who they are.�?BR>Reply "Yeah.�?BR>1485 "The first one, the phone number ends in, and I’ll just give you the last four digits.�?BR>Reply "Will you just hang on two secs, this is a bit, okay.�?BR>1485 "It’s ****.�?BR>Reply "**** SA.�?BR>1485 "And who’s SA?�?BR>Reply "Err he is err my, Fiona’s sister LW, that’s her husband.�?BR>1485 "And what sort of a relationship do you have with him?�?BR>Reply "Err a very good relationship. He is err someone that I’ve known for many years, we’ve been to their wedding, they came to our wedding, and err he’s you know a very good friend.�?BR>1485 "Okay. Then there’s a series of one, two, three, four, five, six text messages around about six p.m. on Friday.�?BR>Reply "The Friday, yes, err the, these were all in relation to you know what had been happening that, that, that day basically and to get advice from S. Again, you know, a bit like I said with err Fiona’s err father, you know he’s someone that I trust very well who was not with us at the time who would, who could think calmly and clearly and to just ask advice about you know what was going on, what were they picking up in the UK err you know what coverage was it getting, what, what, what did they know was going on, you know, could they feed anything back, we wanted to get any information that we possibly could, you know, that was the conversation.�?BR>01:22:21 1485 "Okay the next number is, ends in **.�?BR>Reply "**�?I’ve err I’ve not got that one in.�?BR>1485 "You’ve not got that one in?�?BR>Reply "No.�?BR>1485 "Again, there was a series of text messages around about the same time on the Friday the fourth. There was err two calls and then...�?BR>Reply "Around six o�?clock?�?BR>1485 "Yeah, well the calls were made between eight and nine in the morning.�?BR>Reply "Right.�?BR>1485 "And then there was between ten a.m. to six p.m. there’s a series of eight text messages, actually I’m lying, no I’m wrong, sorry, scrap that, there was two, there was two calls between eight and nine in the morning and then one text message, two text messages around about ten a.m.�?BR>Reply "Right.�?BR>1485 "Could you have been at the Police Station that, the following day around about that time?�?BR>01:24:38 Reply "I mean we didn’t leave the Police Station the following day until about eleven o�?clock so that, I mean if they were ten a.m. then that would have been before.�?BR>1485 "But that number’s not in your book at all?�?BR>Reply "No, as I say whether it’s just because it’s not one I’ve transferred across, because I’ve not got all of the numbers in this phone that I’ve got in my other one. I, I mean I can certainly get those for you.�?BR>1485 "You may well have to actually.�?BR>Reply "Yeah okay.�?BR>1485 "The next number ends in ***. Sorry, that’s S again, sorry.�?BR>Reply "Okay.�?BR>1485 "And again there was quite a number of text messages, so you text him again.�?BR>Reply "Yeah.�?BR>1485 "Its okay, they’ve put it in the saved box here.�?BR>Reply "Oh right, so it’s the same?�?BR>1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we’ll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***.�?BR>Reply "So that’s a local number?�?BR>1485 "I think…�?BR>01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean err it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who err could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry you know hadn’t got any contact, you know way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said err you know there’s, there’s these people that we know there and you know that could have been it.�?BR>1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o�?clock on the Friday evening to that number.�?BR>Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn’t make sense.�?BR>1485 "No.�?BR>Reply "Err…�?BR>1485 "From that number to your number.�?BR>Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything’s alright, you’ve got the phones and everything, that’s the only thing.�?BR>1485 "Okay, next number I’d like you to look for please David is **�?BR>01:27:13 Reply "That’s gonna be my sister’s�?**?�?BR>1485 "** yeah. It starts with, it’s *…�?BR>Reply "Is it **.�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>Reply "**?�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>Reply "Yeah it’s my mum’s number.�?BR>1485 "What town is that?�?BR>Reply "What town is that? Err Rochdale.�?BR>1485 "Rochdale?�?BR>Reply "Yeah, in Manchester.�?BR>1485 "And again, there was a series of calls which are self explanatory I suppose.�?BR>Reply "Mm, yeah.�?BR>1485 "The next number could well be another relative but I’ll check with you anyway, it’s **…�?BR>Reply "Yeah my sister’s.�?BR>1485 "Your sister’s?�?BR>Reply "Yeah, that’s Market Harborough.�?BR>1485 "Next number is a, I think it’s a London number, it’s o, two, o, seven, and it ends its **.�?BR>Reply "**? Can we just ring it? (Laughs).�?BR>01:29:09 1485 "(Laughs).�?BR>Reply "No. What time was that sorry that that was…�?BR>1485 "It’s about, it’s quarter past eleven or twenty three thirteen on the fourth on the Friday night.�?BR>Reply "At night?�?BR>1485 "Yeah. So my, my recollection of ** is a London number if that helps.�?BR>Reply "Yeah, I’ll just have a little look. I, I can’t remember, I’ve got friends that are down in London which I haven’t got her number in here, whether she saw it and rang it I don’t know. Was it a long, long call or?�?BR>1485 "Err, yeah it was quite a long call.�?BR>Reply "Right, okay.�?BR>1485 "But you actually called the number.�?BR>Reply "Yeah, okay.�?BR>1485 "Okay, the next number is, it’s a mobile number and it ends in **�?BR>Reply "Mobile number **?�?BR>1485 "Yeah, yeah. **, and it ends in **.�?BR>01:31:16 Reply "Err,**�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>Reply "LL, whose a, you know, a friend of the family’s.�?BR>1485 "And what was the nature of the, it was a text message at quarter past eight, err quarter past six on the fourth.�?
Reply "Yeah.�?BR>1485 "Sent, I think it was sent from them to you.�?BR>Reply "Yeah, it would have been oh yeah, seen, seen what’s happened out there, are you okay, you know I presume.�?BR>1485 "Okay the final one is, well it ends in , **.�?BR>Reply "**�?The other thing is, is that err Fiona was using my phone out there, she hadn’t got her phone with her so some of these calls may be…�?BR>1485 "This one’s a call.�?BR>Reply "But if she got the number and the put it in, she might know what it is, but yeah.�?BR>1485 "Yeah, yeah I accept that.�?BR>Reply "**. Sorry ** was it?�?BR>1485 "**.�?BR>Reply "Let’s have another look, no I don’t think I’ve got that one.�?BR>1485 "Okay.�?BR>Reply “It’s quite close together all this to all this, but no I can’t see that one.�?BR>1485 "Alright, okay well that’s the end of the phone traffic, one fin, one question or one person I’d like to speak to you about is Yvonne MARTIN. Do you know a person called Yvonne MARTIN?�?BR>01:34:03 Reply "Yvonne MARTIN?�?BR>1485 "Social Worker.�?BR>Reply "Right. Oh, okay, err there was a lady who was there on the err when me, when me and Kate were waiting on the err morning you know after Madeleine had disappeared err there was err a photographer who was living in the area who err approached us and was just saying ah I used to work for the Daily Mirror, he gave his card and then this woman came up and started err chatting to us who err essentially just said ah I’ve got many years of experience you know and just started to really try and again force their selves in the situation a bit rather than just saying look I’m around if you need me err you know, so basically I just said it wasn’t you know appropriate at the time, could she leave us alone and err but I must admit I didn’t know what her, that was you know, that was, and she was, you know she said she was trained for many years as a Social Worker and was out there now err and was offering her help, but not in a particularly helpful way and she appeared you know, and that was on the you know the morning, I don’t know somewhere perhaps between nine and ten o�?clock in the morning. Err you know I’m sure, sure she’d been at, you know, she popped in there and you know she was around the area, she was seen again, but I mean I didn’t have any more contact with her then but at the time it wasn’t particularly helpful. Err I can’t really say any more than that.�?BR>01:35:47 1485 "Did you know her before that meeting?�?BR>Reply "Err no.�?BR>1485 "Did you speak to the MCCANN’S about it?�?BR>Reply "Err we, yeah we spoke in the context of you know that was completely inappropriate the way that she was trying to deal with it, it’s like she was trying to council Kate there and then in the thick of, you know, they’re still trying to establish what’s going on and what was happening err so you know I spoke to, you know I’m sure I mentioned her to Kate and Gerry you know within a short space of time, you know within twenty four hours of it happening. Err you know, just an example I, you know I was with Kate for quite a number of hours where I was sat with her at the err Police Station in Portimão and everything and you know weeks later she said who was I sat with, you know, and it was that, its that kind of thing you know I’m sure you know I spoke to them about it there and then within twenty four hours but err you know nothing was really mentioned a great deal about her later on or you know it was the, the, you know pretty much you know the conversation was dealt, you know dealt with it there and then and it wasn’t, you know, perhaps I mentioned it to the others saying you know and if she popped up here and there you know other people might have mentioned her but she wasn’t something that kind of like was the focus of the conversations that we had subsequently.�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>01:37:15 Reply "Err for that morning.�?BR>1485 "Did you advise the MCCANN’S to turn to her?�?BR>Reply "Not at all, no.�?BR>1485 "Not at all?�?BR>Reply "Not at all. She was someone I’d certainly say to, to keep clear of you know and I, and I think pretty much I was saying look you know, appreciate your concern at this stage but you know it’s not the right time to be talking to her, if you want to leave a card then you know perhaps there might be a time in the future but you know can you just leave us please, and that was you know the basics of the conversation that I had with her. Err you know her timing was just completely off, err you know there was, I say there was someone else who visited on the night that she was abducted, I think she was from the upstairs and she was again you know trying to say there, there Kate, you’re alright, and again it was just completely inappropriate timing.�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>Reply "I didn’t think there was anything sinister about it I just thought it was people who didn’t really perhaps have an insight into you know what has gone on and what was good timing and what wasn’t. I never really thought anything much more about either of them.�?BR>1485 "Okay, there’s no more questions at this stage.�?BR>Reply "Yeah.�?BR>1485 "What I’m gonna do is I’m gonna take a short break, just take a bit of a coffee break.�?BR>Reply "Yeah, yeah.�?BR>1485 "And then come straight back in with Gerry and Kate’s questions.�?BR>Reply "Right.�?BR>1485 "Alright?�?BR>Reply "Yeah, okay.�?BR>01:38:42 1485 "Just before I finish, what we’ve been talking about on this section of the interview, is there anything that you feel you want to add that may be pertinent to the investigation?�?BR>Reply "Again, just to you know summarise in that you know not many people find themselves in a situation like that and the way that Kate and Gerry were, there was nothing to suggest that there had been any foul play. They behaved so much as I would expect someone in the situation they were in and the way that their moods had changed from you know complete calm and serenity and enjoyment, just turned completely to you know distraught and you know that wasn’t acting, that wasn’t anyone, that was just pure grief of the situation that they found themselves in.�?BR>1485 "Yeah.�?BR>Reply "And you know and the change was like that, it wasn’t you know, err I don’t think there’s anything else I’d like to add at this stage.�?BR>1485 "Okay that’s fine, okay. It’s two fifty nine, or fourteen fifty nine and I’ll stop now
01:40:00 The interview ceased at 1459 hours when the tape recorder was switched off.