Forum McMyths - fact or fiction -read OP for summary
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3141
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: Forum McMyths - fact or fiction -read OP for summary
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seeing as it's friday, going into the weekend, and only the guardian toilet paper clarrie article to discuss to death, i thought i would have a go at the forum McMyth thread.
the purpose is that people can start here and have common rumours confiirmed or dashed.
So, posters are invited to provide real proof of the myth and contribute with myths of their own for others to prove.
Proof is not just copying from a blog or other forum. I'm talking about facts that can be backed up with facts.
Here are the first ones off the top of the old barnet......
1) gerry dumped a "broken fridge" from the villa. He wrote about it in his blog and there is a photograph of him doing so. (proof would be the original blog or the photo, not just other accounts of it)
2) a connection with "castle craig" to the case, other than sharing the common surname "mccann"
3) there was a 10th Tapas member who left the next day.
4) gerry's father was a labour MP
5) A private plane flew out of PDL on the night of 3rd May
6) Clarence was in PDL the night of the 3rd May
7) etc
just as an example of how strongly certain myths are regarded, on the baby grace thread, there was a stated connection between john mccann, his employer, a ship leaving huelva, the "box" --- all leading to the fact that baby grace was madeleine.
Absolute rubbish.
So forum dwellers and conspiracy theorists, where is your "evidence"??
(back later with some more)
8 - )"After all, it was our holiday too." from uncle monty
9) gerry dumping the black bag in the rubbish bin - from the yahoo.answers page.
10) "Paedo-oriented" material found on Murat's computer - fretful porcupine
11) "don't say anything until they've switched off the microphone" what he actually says is "Do you want to say anything to whoever's got her?" in proper (slightly refined) glaswegian. (EDITED to correct)
12) 'Taking the rotting meat to the tip' - what? from gottostop
Any takers for that one? was it really done, or said?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ddy819.xml Well there is the link from the telegraph. thanks to Kevin
"Friend" in these matters is always Clarrie. SO we can see a report, of course, whether what the freind said is true or not is another matter altogether.
13) gerry is a cardiologist, not a heart surgeon
14) Did the McCanns really hire Pinochet´s lawyer?
Well they certainly had a visit from them on the sunday after their return to rothley. Were they retained as legal advisors?? anyone know?
15)Did mrs. Healy really say her grandaughter was medicated because she was known for sleepwalking?
Here are two forum myths to be confirmed or trashed: (from pakeha- must admit i have heard neither before)
16)The McCanns have Irish passports
17)The bodily fluid found in the tyre well in the boot of the Renault Scenic was cerebralspinal fluid
18 ) was the book "no stone unturned" found in the apartment and/or the police manual on how to dispose of a body??
19) that there were early reports of a bag missing from apartment 5A* and by early I mean the first few days.
20) Gordon Brown said that it would take some time for the nation to be prepared.
Any takers for those?
Last edited by sentinel on Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:44 pm; edited 16 times in total
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SallyGardens
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 4525
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:56 am Post subject:
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Hi, Senti; I will be back later with some more truths too....
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GBH
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:56 am Post subject:
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Which of your points are true and which are false? Sorry but I'm a little confused!
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3141
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:58 am Post subject:
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[quote="GBH"]Which of your points are true and which are false? Sorry but I'm a little confused![/quote]
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good example!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm proposing that all of those points are false, they are commonly held beliefs but no basis of fact (the dad MP was was scotched almost immediately, but i still see it rumoured).
unless of course you know differrent...........
Last edited by sentinel on Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fretful_Porpentine
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 328
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:59 am Post subject:
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"Paedo-oriented" material found on Murat's computer.
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sans_souci
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 2658
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:00 am Post subject:
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[quote="GBH"]Which of your points are true and which are false? Sorry but I'm a little confused![/quote]
Whole point of the thread - these are the myths that have grown up - now, can anyone provide corroboration of them. Could be a lively, if not particularly informative, thread.
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3141
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:
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[quote="sans_souci"][quote="GBH"]Which of your points are true and which are false? Sorry but I'm a little confused![/quote]
Whole point of the thread - these are the myths that have grown up - now, can anyone provide corroboration of them. Could be a lively, if not particularly informative, thread. [/quote]
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that is the idea,
lets get rid of the lies and gossip.
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Fretful_Porpentine
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 328
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:03 am Post subject:
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I think it was conclusively established that the John McCann of the Madeleine fund was different from the Castle Craig John McCann - Companies House records gave them different addresses and birth dates.
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3141
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:04 am Post subject:
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[quote="Fretful_Porpentine"]I think it was conclusively established that the John McCann of the Madeleine fund was different from the Castle Craig John McCann - Companies House records gave them different addresses and birth dates.[/quote]
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still see mention of the "connection.....
you wouldn't be able to locate the companies house records???
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icolios
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 445
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:06 am Post subject:
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Sentinel's point is that they are all false. Myths developed out of the mysterious facts of the case.
Some more:
Gerry is a mason.
The last photograph of Madeleine is a doctored forgery.
Madeleine died a day before.
Madeleine was murdered.
And in the interests of balance some possible myths from the other side
Madeleine was abducted
Madeleine was in Moroccco
Madeleine was in Bosnia
Independent experts have examined the Renault and found nothing
The clandestine Tapas 9 meeting in the hotel was an emotional get-together to show solidarity with the McCanns
The police do not have a case against them
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Fretful_Porpentine
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 328
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:
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[quote="sentinel"][quote="Fretful_Porpentine"]I think it was conclusively established that the John McCann of the Madeleine fund was different from the Castle Craig John McCann - Companies House records gave them different addresses and birth dates.[/quote]
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still see mention of the "connection.....
you wouldn't be able to locate the companies house records???[/quote]
I had to pay a £1 each for them!
It was worth it though, cos it save getting caught up in one more conspiracy theory.
I'll get you the details so you can check yourself. Back in 5 mins
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hunnybunny
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 1065
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:
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Heres some.
Gerrys not Maddies biological father.
The last photo of Maddie is a fake.
sky tv was contacted before the police.
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Estelle
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 1860
Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:13 am Post subject:
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[quote="sentinel"][quote="sans_souci"][quote="GBH"]Which of your points are true and which are false? Sorry but I'm a little confused![/quote]
Whole point of the thread - these are the myths that have grown up - now, can anyone provide corroboration of them. Could be a lively, if not particularly informative, thread. :)[/quote]
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that is the idea,
lets get rid of the lies and gossip.[/quote]
xxxxxxx
Maybe we will have to wait until a court case for these myths to become facts or otherwise.
If you sort through Li's posts, you may find some answers.
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amplyjustified
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2799
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:13 am Post subject:
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Jane Tanner constantly changed her description of the 'abductor'.
We do not know what she said originally as we have not read her statement to the police.
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3141
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:13 am Post subject:
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[quote="icolios"]Sentinel's point is that they are all false. Myths developed out of the mysterious facts of the case.
Some more:
Gerry is a mason.
The last photograph of Madeleine is a doctored forgery.
Madeleine died a day before.
Madeleine was murdered.
And in the interests of balance some possible myths from the other side
Madeleine was abducted
Madeleine was in Moroccco
Madeleine was in Bosnia
Independent experts have examined the Renault and found nothing
The clandestine Tapas 9 meeting in the hotel was an emotional get-together to show solidarity with the McCanns
The police do not have a case against them[/quote]
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some of these are impossible to prove!!!!!!!!!
the idea was to keep it to solid instances,
a good example is the photograph of gerry dumping the fridge and also mentioning it in his blog.
If someone can produce the photo or the original blog entry we can believe it.
if we include wild conjecture, the thread will end up a rabble like many others.
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Forum McMyths - fact or fiction -read OP for summary
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sabot
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 850
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject:
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I lived and worked around Glasgow for three years and it sounds to me as though Gerry said,"Do you want to say anything to whoever is calling".
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3220
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject:
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I've carried this over from another thread, courtesy of JW in reponse to the question:
" did Gordon Brown say that the nation had to be prepared"?
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Prepare the Nation???
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[quote="JW"][
*********************
Everytime this Gordon Brown "statement" gets repeated...and repeated...and repeated on here, I give the same reply!
Gordon Brown,or any of his scronies, NEVER said such a thing, nor did he ever hint at it...anywhere...never did...hasn't....didn't...etc etc.
I just wanted to point out that again because it was asked by sentinel, who is one of the respected posters here -- and someone who tries to actually verify the validity of information, theories, quotes etc
This was my reply ther last time this nonsense was repeated
"He never did ("say the nation needed to be prepared"). Nor has it even ever even been hinted at by any of the other McCann friends, family, supporters, spokesmen or media friendly outlets.
Someone once said that it might be the case here. Now some people repeat it as fact.
Gordon Brown has always aided and supported the McCanns in every way possible and continues to do so -- I won't bore you with the details again. Suffice to say it is Gordon Brown's millionaire pals who now continue to pay for Clarence Mitchell, various PR and media advisors, lawyers etc. etc! If he's "preparing" anything...it's to get the MCCanns off the hook and ensure they never are charged."
No doubt it will be repeated again! Those seeking the truth abouth the Government's involvement with the McCann are done no favours by the kind of posters who do no research, and merely spout and repeat any old bit of rubbish![/quote]
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thanks for that JW, it's a change from being accused of actually being gerry mccann for refusing to beilieve that there are photos of me, i mean him, dumping a fridge.
the reason i asked this morning is because i had only ever seen forum quotes of this, never a first hand account.
Also. i performed what i call my "plausibility test" Which is to quite simply ask if something is actually plausible. It goes a long way in uncovering if something is fact or not.
this is going straight on the forum mcmyths thread.
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EDIT: more info copied over
[quote="SirPrize"]Okay - it was a Portugese newspaper that reported it on 20th October - The UK papers were covering the 'Twins tested negative for sedatives story'.
This is the {google} translation of the post here in the mirror forum, which was quoted on a Dutch forum, but I can't find the original article because I don't speak Portugese
The original was in CM.
[quote]In a Portuguese newspaper writes today about that meeting between PM Gordon Brown and José Sócrates, Prime Minister of Portugal: "The hypothesis that the parents are involved (in the disappearance) has been an uncomfortable one for the British (govt) who prefer to have some time to prepare public opinion for a turnaround. According to sources contacted by the CM, this could explain the reason why the British Prime Minister Jose Socrates has asked that the results of the tests (from Birmingham) are not immediately published in Portugal[/quote]
Sorry I can't find any further references right now - I have a zillion things to do around here.
Edited to include that the Mail printed that the FSS results would be back in a day or 2, a day or so prior to this article.[/quote]
good effort, but i don't trust anything from a forum without a direct reference. even then, the above passage is not a quote from GB, it is an opinion written by the author (not THE author )
Last edited by sentinel on Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lula01
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 339
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject:
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Suddenly I keep seeing posters alledging no one saw Maddie alive on the 3rd May.
Since we've been told Maddie was in Mark Warners creche that seems to me to be easy to prove?
And no one from Mark Warners denies that Maddie was in the creche that day, they did however point out that 'no child has ever been abducted from a Mark Warner site' in a press release (or words to that effect).
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3220
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject:
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[quote="lula01"]Suddenly I keep seeing posters alledging no one saw Maddie alive on the 3rd May.
Since we've been told Maddie was in Mark Warners creche that seems to me to be easy to prove?
And no one from Mark Warners denies that Maddie was in the creche that day, they did however point out that 'no child has ever been abducted from a Mark Warner site' in a press release (or words to that effect).[/quote]
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this one has been "out there" from a very early point in time.
there are a couple of references to madeleine being "seen" on 3rd, particularly at the creche.
Whether she was around on that day or not, we probably have to leave it to the PJ to determine for sure as they have more (all?) the information.
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lula01
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 339
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:
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Sentinel, exactly what l think.
I don't understand why some people parrot things out as truth when l saw nothing that said otherwise.
I'd love to see what's in the PJ's files though - l bet would K & G would too
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sentinel
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3220
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject:
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the full "Preparing the Nation" CM article, courtesy of "kazlux"
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[quote="kazlux"]Correio da Manhã
20 October 2007
Madeleine McCann Case
The conversation between Gordon Brown and José Sócrates, referred to the day before yesterday by the British Prime Minister in a press conference after the EU Summit in Lisbon, is causing discomfort within the PJ and the magistrate. There are many voices criticizing what looks to be political pressure on a judicial means, even though various sources guarantee that absolutely no special indication [pressure] has been placed on the Judiciary with the last hours by the office of the Justice Ministry.
Police sources explain the government intervention with the fact that the case has political contours in England, as opposed to our country, where the story has always been a police matter. Which, in fact, has always been apparent since the first hour, a hypothesis founded on the dispatch of Clarence Mitchell to Portugal at the time when he was one of Gordon Brown’s right-arms in the opposition.
Afterwards, in the midst of his campaign as Prime Minister, Gorden [sic] Brown also used the McCann case as a political flag, making support for the couple public and noteworthy. A situation which continued during the first months and resulted in several heads of States, including the Pope, to officially receive the parents of the British girl.
The hypothesis of the parent’s involvement has become uncomfortable for the British, who prefer to prepare the public opinion for a possible about-face. Which could explain the reason, according to sources contacted by CM, that the English Prime Minister asked José Sócrates [to ensure] that the analysis results were not known in advance in Portugal.
The English “instruction�?will go, as well, to Alípio Riberio, PJ Director. He will have ordered the investigators sent to the Algarve [to exercise] utmost discretion in the investigations, in order to avoid the information leaks of the past.
Again according to what CM could discover, the Lisbon investigators continue to re-read the process, trying to find open points in the investigation and new angles to pursue.
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 3220
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:
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nearly off the end there
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Cookie
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 2351
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:43 am Post subject:
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[quote="kevin2105"]I agree this is a good idea, and there are hundreds of Murat myths that could go in that list, eg ‘he lent a car to the McCanns�? But you can't refute a myth with another contentious statement.
So �?1-6 plus 9-10 are myths, I think but
8 - )"After all, it was our holiday too." from uncle monty
I'm finding too many references to this for it to be a myth - maybe it was spoken in a TV interview and not written in a newspaper article.
11) "don't say anything until they've switched off the microphone" what he actually says is "Do you want to say anything to whoever's taken her?" in proper (slightly refined) glaswegian.
I listened carefully to this and I never heard the word microphone. But it definitely started with 'don't say anything'. So 11 is a myth about a myth.[/quote]****************
Kev, don't have a stroke or anything but I agree with you that Murat does deserve his space/thread on here with all of the myths about him as well...
Now I will get back to reading the rest of this thread but I had to post that to you...
Sentinel, this is an awesome idea!!! Let's get things out on the table and discuss...
edited to shorten message
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sabot
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 850
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:48 am Post subject:
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Hi Cookie. Love you. Appease not.
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NY152
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 118
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:52 am Post subject:
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The fact that the borders were not closed shows that the Portuguese Police were inefficient �?myth. This is not just a forum myth, but also a British newspaper myth. Portugal is in the Schengen Agreement .
Quotation from a BBC article:
In what circumstances can countries re-impose border controls?
Under article 2.2 of the treaty, signatories may reinstate border controls for a short period, if this is necessary for national security reasons.
Here are some links.
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