Madeleine McCann

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'Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone' - new story

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reiki

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 86

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: 'Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone' - new story

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'Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone': What Kate McCann really said the moment her daughter disappeared
...and what really happened THAT night in Praia de Luz

Last updated at 10:45am on 20th September 2007

•Case against Gerry and Kate McCann in meltdown
�?McCanns were so distraught they couldn't have faked it'
�?British police bugging McCanns' phone calls and emails'

The exact words of Kate McCann in the moments after her daughter disappeared are revealed today for the first time.

Sources close to the McCanns said Madeleine's mother ran back to the tapas bar where the parents were dining shouting: "Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone."

Crucially, the new account is significantly different fromthe version given to Portuguese police who are understood to believe Mrs McCann yelled, "they've taken her, they've taken her" as she ran from the family apartment.

Detectives on the Algarve are understood to view this as suspicious because it indicated that Mrs McCann had already ruled out the possibility of Madeleine wandering off, and to regard as possible evidence that she was already engaged in a cover-up.

Entrance: front, above, and rear of the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz
Read more...

Madeleine: Case against the McCanns in meltdown
Revealed: Gerry McCann's last dance with little Madeleine
Madeleine: DNA 'evidence' in a bin bag
Madeleine's parents: 'British police are bugging our phone calls and emails'

Witnesses have said, however, Mrs McCann reacted with such horror that they are convinced she could not have faked it.

They also insist that both the child's parents were so utterly distraught it would be impossible for them to have killed the three-year-old several hours earlier.

A source close to the family criticised Portuguese police for making the McCanns official suspects in the case - before speaking to the seven friends on holiday with the couple about whether the McCanns could have faked their distress so convincingly.

The source, who did not wish to be named, said today: "It is farcical that detectives could even make Kate and Gerry suspects without speaking to witnesses at the time. Throughout all of this the police have never come back and asked eyewitnesses whether they could be faking it.

"It's a farce. They were so distressed and distraught there is no way anybody could act like that. Even in a movie, nobody could fake it like that. Their suffering was completely real."

Investigations by the the Evening Standard newspaper have put together the most detailed account yet of events on the night Madeleine went missing from the apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May.

According to the Standard, the McCanns had not locked the patio door when leaving Madeleine and her twin siblings Sean and Amelie asleep to eat at a tapas bar nearby.

Window shutters had been opened in Madeleine's bedroom, indicating another route through which an abductor may have entered the apartment.

A child spotted being carried away from the scene was not covered in a blanket as previously reported but was wearing pyjamas matching those worn by Madeleine.

The source said: "Kate and Gerry are completely innocent. I am certain Madeleine was abducted and could still be alive."

Scroll down for more...

Madeleine: Could have been taken before 9:30 the night she went missing

Mrs McCann's reaction on discovering Madeleine had vanished at 10pm was of utter despair.

Mrs McCann raced from the apartment to the tapas bar, screaming: "Madeleine's gone. Madeleine's gone."

Mr McCann also became distressed and the couple were sobbing and screaming. The source said: "Eyewitnesses are convinced there is absolutely no way they could have been faking it. It would be absolutely impossible."

The McCanns and their friends - known as the Tapas Nine - are then understood to have begun the search for the little girl.

The group - Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, David and Fiona Payne and her mother Dianne Webster, and Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner - were interviewed by police in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance and again about a week later.

But none has ever been asked by the Policia Judiciaria, the police force investigating the case, if they believe Mr and Mrs McCann could have killed their daughter earlier in the evening and pretended they only discovered she had gone missing at 10pm.

The source described Mrs McCann as a brilliant mother, adding: "Kate was never hysterical with the kids. She is a great mother. She is really organised. It never got too much for her."

Scroll down for more...

Sobbing McCanns were so distraught they couldn't have faked it, say friends

For the first time the events as they unfolded on the day Madeleine went missing have also been revealed.

The children in the party were dropped at the Mark Warner creche in the morning - as they were on every day of the week-long holiday - and picked up at midday.

It is understood the McCanns then took Madeleine and the twins for a picnic lunch and they spent time at the beach and at the pool of the Ocean Club.

At 5.30pm, Mr McCann took part in a social tennis event inside the complex with the other men in the group, all doctors who had first met while working in a hospital together in Leicester.

Meanwhile, the children in the group ate their supper at the Paraiso restaurant close to the beach at Praia da Luz with their parents. The McCanns and their children were not present.

Mr and Mrs McCann were next seen in the tapas bar, where the group dined each evening during the holiday.

They were first at the table, arriving at 8.40pm, and joined by the Oldfields at 8.45pm with the rest of the party following. Mr McCann made his first check on his children at 9.05pm and Mr Oldfield volunteered to go on behalf of the McCanns at 9.30pm.

He entered the apartment through the unlocked patio doors but rather than entering the children's bedroom listened for any noise at the door.

A man carrying a child was spotted by Ms Tanner at about 9.15pm walking away from the apartment and in the direction of the villa where Robert Murat, the only other named suspect in the case, lives with his mother.

The source said the friends are convinced Ms Tanner saw Madeleine because she described the pyjamas the girl was wearing before being told the description of those worn by Madeleine.

The source said it was astonishing the McCanns had now been made suspects, based on forensic evidence taken from the apartment and from a hire car rented by the couple 25 days after Madeleine vanished.

The McCanns went on the offensive this week to demolish the forensic evidence, pointing out Madeleine's DNA could easily have got into the hire car via her sandals and other belongings which were transported when the family moved apartments.

Last edited by reiki on Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Jenna1

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:23 am Post subject:

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So it's 'Madeleines's gone' now is it?? Took her long enough to remember that didn't it?? Especially as she's had so much to say about everything else. Very convenient. Or maybe Clarence has had a sudden flash of recall?!?!?!

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mexx

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 1411

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:27 am Post subject:

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Oh, I;m getting sick and tired of their lies. But that is exactly what they want.......spin the truth, fool the people.

So, I have to stick with it.

.

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urcrazy

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 114

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:29 am Post subject:

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The Mirror story directly contradicts what we were told by the beach restaurant only earlier this week:

At 5.30pm, Mr McCann took part in a social tennis event inside the complex with the other men in the group, all doctors who had first met while working in a hospital together in Leicester.

Meanwhile, the children in the group ate their supper at the Paraiso restaurant close to the beach at Praia da Luz with their parents. The McCanns and their children were not present.

And yet we are told now that they were present, and are on CCTV. I wish to God we didn't have to rely on so many totally contradictory statements, it's doing my head in.

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reiki

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 86

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:30 am Post subject:

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Hi Mexx,
stay with it.

first map of the flat i've seen

Question - is theis breaking the secrecy laws? is this enough for them to get her back for requestioning?

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stoggy321

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 32

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:33 am Post subject:

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Oh and the window was now "left open"!!!! Thought it had been forced open from the outside?

I loved the bit about "nobody asked us if we thought they had killed her or knew something about it"

Yeah like you are gonna say "now you come to mention it they did look dodgy>"

Whatever has happened, lies have been told by the Tapas 9 which is gonna make anyone suspicious.

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peacelover

Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 506

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:34 am Post subject:

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Am I to understand these 'witnesses' are the Tapas crowd with new 'improved' stories to wash the situation whiter than white?

Because it sounds like a load of tosh to me.

How could the description of the man carrying a child be so hugely different from the egg face with a bundle that 'might have been a child'?

Now the 'bundle' wasn't a 'bundle' but definitely a child and she had definitely described the pyjamas.

Oh really - Jackanory had more believable stories than this!!

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Lord_of_the_Pies

Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:35 am Post subject:

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liar
_________________
Who ate all the Scotch pies?

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onthesideoftruth2007

Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 8

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:35 am Post subject:

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[quote="mexx"]Oh, I;m getting sick and tired of their lies. But that is exactly what they want.......spin the truth, fool the people.

So, I have to stick with it.

.[/quote]
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So what is the lie?

It is stated above that Gerry and the men of the Tapas 7 were playing tennis at 5.30 while the women and kids were eating at the restaurant. Yet in the official new timeline, the waiter has been reported to say that Gerry looked like father of the year dancing with Madeleine while Kate fed the twins at this restaurant.

Does anyone or any paper actually know what is the truth? Do these newspapers ever really care what they print?

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Bear

Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 268

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:35 am Post subject:

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Oh for God's sake of course she didn't fake it or yell "They've taken her".

Even if she was guilty she's hardly stupid enough to give it all away like that is she?

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clocker

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 98

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:

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Jane tanner sees a child in a mans arms wearing pjyamas and bare feet and is not being carried in a blanket and does not think the child might be one of the little girls left alone in one of the apartments?? Wouldn't you at least mention it to the others in the group?

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Blunomore

Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 301

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

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I think a lot of misinformation in this case results from issues related to translation between Portuguese and English.

I will change my mind about them ...

IF they can explain the DNA evidence against them without having to resort to things like 'the twins p*ssed in the boot'.

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meme

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 671

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:43 am Post subject:

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Who else thinks this 'source' is one of the tapas 9.. how else can they think to have any credibility accessing ow good a mother she was, they obviously know her from more than that night, they speak of her organisation and how the kids therefore were not too much for her, so hardly an unbiased bystander who happened to just be at the Tapas bar and innocently witnessed it all with no preconceptions or adgenda.
So basically this report is useless as it is the tapas 7 spinning their belated touched up for public consumption version of the nights events.
Do the McCanns really think they are eithe r making themselves look better or fooling anyone with this amateurish level of spin.. I know CM is a professional manipulator of the news, but he cant be worth his money if this is the level of spin he is providing them with, spin that actually makes them look more guilty

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clocker

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 98

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:

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[quote="meme"]Who else thinks this 'source' is one of the tapas 9.. how else can they think to have any credibility accessing ow good a mother she was, they obviously know her from more than that night, they speak of her organisation and how the kids therefore were not too much for her, so hardly an unbiased bystander who happened to just be at the Tapas bar and innocently witnessed it all with no preconceptions or adgenda.
So basically this report is useless as it is the tapas 7 spinning their belated touched up for public consumption version of the nights events.
Do the McCanns really think they are eithe r making themselves look better or fooling anyone with this amateurish level of spin.. I know CM is a professional manipulator of the news, but he cant be worth his money if this is the level of spin he is providing them with, spin that actually makes them look more guilty[/quote]

IMO There is no doubt it's one of the others in the group that is 'the source'.

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OldMotherHubbard

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 97

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:

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Looks like the claim that Madeleine slept between the 2 cots was a lie too

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Flapper

Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 105

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:

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[quote="jazzlady"]If anyone could answer this question : Surely Kate Mc would have given a copy of her statement and then be asked to read it through correcting any errors before signing it as the truth, and therefore be aware that saying "They've taken her" is different from saying "Madeleine's gone".
Also, the "They've taken her" was all over the papers from the beginning - why wasn't it corrected before now?
Any suggestions?[/quote]

My guess is that she is going to say that it was translated WRONG for her. That she could not actually speak the language so she only had what they were telling her it said.

Then she will claim that secrecy laws prevented her from correcting the error.

Then she'll say when she went to get Gerry. She locked the doors and windows. Then felt safe to leave the twins alone to go jog and get Gerry. Or she will say she left someone watching them or whatever. She'll have an excuse. This is not her fault. She's a responsible parent.
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blackwatch

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 492

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject:

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Kate said in her interview with Lori Campbell of the Daily Mirror that she KNEW Madeleine had not wandered off. She says she KNEW this because cuddlecat had been placed out of reach.

Today the Daily Mail uses the phrase 'Madeleine is Gone, Ghe's Gone' to suggest Kate had not ruled out that the toddler had simply wandered off.

Unfortunately Kate ruled this out herself during the course of the interview:

"Recalling the moment she found her daughter's bed empty, Kate says: "There was 20 seconds of disbelief where I thought, 'That can't be right'. I was checking for her. Then there was panic and fear. That was the first thing that hit. I was screaming her name. I ran to the group. Everyone was the same. It was total fear.

"I never thought for one second that she'd walked out. I knew someone had been in the apartment because of the way it had been left.

"But I knew she wouldn't walk out anyway. There wasn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind she'd been taken."

Kate says she saw that Madeleine's toy Cuddle Cat had been left behind, but was careful not to touch it in case it held a clue to who took her.

She says: "I knew straight away a crime had been committed, we had no doubt about that. We were very conscious of not touching things."
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/.....-19573670/

This particular interview had been arranged because reports had questioned why the guests had not spent time searching and why Kate in particular had ran out screaming, 'They've taken her, they've taken her'.

She can't have it both ways.
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Harry1

Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 12

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject:

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Wouldn´t it have been more natural for someone having just found his/her daughter´s bed empty to say "Come quickly, I can´t find Madeleine".
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reiki

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 86

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject:

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Here is the culprit: Perhaps anyway

Kate's grief was not fake - witness
47 minutes ago

An eye-witness to events on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared has rubbished suggestions her mother's reaction to the discovery could be suspicious.

The witness, who was present in Praia Da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, said it was impossible Kate and Gerry McCann could have been "faking" their grief after finding Madeleine missing that night.

And the witness dismissed reports that Kate McCann had run back from the apartment where Madeleine had been sleeping screaming: "They've taken her."

Portuguese Police are said to have found the choice of words suspicious believing it could be possible evidence of a cover-up. But, speaking to the Evening Standard, the witness, who asked not to be named, claimed Mrs McCann had in fact said: "Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone."

The witness added that Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry's had been so visibly horrified that it was impossible they could have been acting.

The source also revealed police had never put the suggestion that the McCanns' reactions might not have been genuine to the seven friends they had been dining with before declaring the couple to be suspects.

"It is farcical that detectives could even make Kate and Gerry suspects without speaking to witnesses at the time," the source said. "Throughout all of this the police have never come back and asked eyewitnesses whether they could be faking it."

The account of the events of the night Madeleine disappeared emerged as fresh doubts were raised about the direction of the Portuguese investigation.

Portuguese newspaper Diario de Noticias on Thursday quoted a source close to the lead prosecutor in the case as saying it had reached an "impasse phase".

On Thursday night Luis Bilro Verao, a prosecutor sent by Portugal's attorney general to handle the case, announced that no new evidence had yet emerged to justify questioning the couple again. The couple also took comfort from his disclosure that other lines of inquiry - apart from the McCanns - are not to be ruled out by detectives and no new bail conditions are to be imposed.

http://ukpress.google.com/arti.....Fy0gxmopHw
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waccy

Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 404

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject:

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[quote="Flapper"][quote="waccy"][quote="Flapper"]Here is what bothers me the most about all of this. Murrat was said to be the translator for the Police in the early days. Was thier original statement translated by him?? If so, we could have a big problem here>>> Since Murrat is a suspect too. This is where I think the investigation is going to have problems proving that they changed thier original version.[/quote]

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Can't find the Link but Murat did not translate for Kate and Gerry. There is also another report that all statements were recorded on video, as is the norm in such serious cases involving foreigners[/quote]

There are links to say he did, and links to say he didn't. But I think he did because his working w/the Police is what caused the reporter to take suspicion of him in the first place.

As for recording w/video. It would be awesome if they have that. Howver, it was reported when kate was doing the last interview that it was going to take more time for this interview because they don't video record it, they write it all down then it has to be translated then signed. . I am not from Portugal, so prior to this case, i've not followed any other cases from there. So I could be wrong. As we both know. Media reports in this case are Ify at best.[/quote]

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Not quite as rembered it, I just hope they did go ahead and put the Tapas Shuffle on film:

"Meanwhile, a group of about 10 British people, including the McCanns and their friends, have been reinterviewed to clarify their statements.

They are expected to record video evidence in court this week for any future trial.

Local lawyer Artur Rego said the procedure was only used in exceptional circumstances when a large number of witnesses were foreigners. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6652611.stm

Last edited by waccy on Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arbiter

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 55

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject:

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An unnamed witness immerges.

"The source".

Who has the unnamed witness been talking to?

I'd be more impressed if there were some names.

I wonder did the PR team find this "source"?
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JAS2001

Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 132

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: Daily Mail

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Two days ago Daily Mail did “discover" Mr Matias, the Paraiso restaurant owner, who “has never spoken before�?and did write a pink story named “Gerry last dance with little Madeleine”�?

They told us “Mr Matias evidence confirms Madeleine was alive and well at 6pm, when the family left the restaurant.�?

>> We conclude: McCanns left Paraiso restaurant at 06.00 pm.

Today Daily Mail is saying the contrary:

-"It is understood the McCanns then took Madeleine and the twins for a picnic lunch and they spent time at the beach and at the pool of the Ocean Club."

>>We conclude that Maddie was seen at beach and at the pool.

>>We cannot conclude at what time was the last sighting.

-“At 5.30pm, Mr McCann took part in a social tennis event inside the complex with the other men in the group�?

>> We conclude: Only women and children were at the restaurant after 5.30pm�?

-"Meanwhile, the children in the group ate their supper at the Paraiso restaurant close to the beach at Praia da Luz with their parents�? The McCanns and their children were not present.

>> Impossible! We should have there only “women and children�?because “men were playing tennis”�?

>> McCanns were not present? What about the yesterday nice and pink story named “Gerry last dance with little Madeleine�?

If this timeline is true the case would be worst to McCanns�?
>> We would have Kate and children at apartment much earlier.
>>We would have Kate surely ALONE with children at the apartment after 05.30pm.
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RstJ

Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 486

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: 'Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone' - new story

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Window shutters had been opened in Madeleine's bedroom, indicating another route through which an abductor may have entered the apartment.
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Ok, huge change. And why would the shutters be open? They must have found Gerry's prints on them.

At 5.30pm, Mr McCann took part in a social tennis event inside the complex with the other men in the group, all doctors who had first met while working in a hospital together in Leicester.
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"Playing Tennis" is what he's going to go with. Even if they were the only ones signed up, 3hrs is too short for a "tournament." Next thing we'll hear is that he wasn't actually playing, mind you, but simply watching. But nobody will remember him being there because he wasn't. If he had been, then his timeline wouldn't have to have been such a big secret.

Mr Oldfield could see the twins asleep in their cots sideby-side but Madeleine's bed was out of sight. In fact, the McCanns and their friends believe that by 9.30pm, Madeleine had already been abducted.
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How can Madeleine be sleeping between the twins and be out of sight?

Keeping your eye on the ball: notice the story says nothing about Madeleine's whereabouts, nor why she and the twins weren't at the restaurant.

RstJ
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GoodForYou

Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 889

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:

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Full of contradictions and lacking in any logic.

So the McCanns are innocent because the friends say they were so distaught they couldn't have faked it. That is the most stupid argument yet.

Most interestingly for me:

The text in the blue box item two suggests the abductor entered through the unlocked patio doors and left through the front door. So why did he need to jemmy the shutter.

Why doesn't it mention Gerry's check on the children. It has all the hallmarks of a spin doctor.
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