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 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknametin-lizzy  in response to Message 4Sent: 2/9/2009 2:24 AM
00:22:37 Reply "It was just…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "It was just, you know, there was, there just no, there was nothing that she did that I thought was unlike someone who had not had their child abducted and there was everything that I’d expect to be.?BR>1485 "The way she reacted??BR>Reply "The way she reacted err you know obviously we were, we were interviewed that, that day and you know we had very little sleep, you know we were very tired, the interviews, and that’s my real recollections of that.?BR>1485 "That period. Anything else??BR>Reply "Err, with any specifics prompts or??BR>1485 "No, just making sure that you know…?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "You’ve done, you’ve remembered everything you possibly can that’s all.?BR>Reply "Yeah. I’m sure if I chatted more to you I’d probably remember more.?BR>1485 "Well all I was gonna do is I was gonna go back to, I was gonna try and take you in stages through you know your recall just to see whether it could prompt anything else really, and what I want to try and do is go back to you know the Tapas bar really.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "Sorry, further back than that I want to go back to the beach.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "Because you said that you were on the beach, you was windsurfing.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "And you spotted Matt and Russell.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "On the catamaran.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "Something happened on the catamaran where Matt fell in.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "Do you know about that??BR>00:24:15 Reply "Yeah I mean that was a topic of conversation that we had at the table, you know, because Matt is the experienced sailor of the two of them and err Russell err you know hadn’t done a great deal of sailing and catamarans are not particularly easy I understand err to sail and err Matt had gone overboard and Russell then had to get the catamaran back to pick him up so that was err you know a story of amusement at the table.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "Err I didn’t actually see that happen you know.?BR>1485 "Right.?BR>Reply "But you know I certainly saw them out there, err on the water.?BR>1485 "Yeah, what sort of time, excuse me it’s getting a warm in here, what sort of time was that that you saw them??BR>Reply "You know I’d say, I’d say you know roughly around three o?clock but very roughly.?BR>1485 "Yeah very roughly.?BR>Reply "Err you know I, generally our girls slept in the afternoon say between two and four and err so that’d be the time that I’d have gone out there and I was out there for a couple of hours you know err the, I’ve done a great deal of windsurfing and you know the conditions were very good.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "Err so as I say we were out there for a couple of, I was out there for a couple of hours.?BR>1485 "So the girls went to bed at, woke up about four, so you think it would have been after four that you’d have gone down to the beach then??BR>00:25:34 Reply "Err well no because I mean like usually like while they were asleep it’s a good time to do you know activities and you know someone could stay behind, look after the children so err Fiona, and I think Dianne, had both stayed behind and you know I said well I’ll go get a, get a…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "A windsurf.?BR>1485 "Right. So did you walk down to the beach on your own then??BR>Reply "Yes, as far as I remember I think Matt and Russ had gone, gone already, gone down before me.?BR>1485 "And did you see anybody on your way down??BR>Reply "Err…?BR>1485 "Your group or other??BR>Reply "I can’t remember.?BR>1485 "And when you got down to the beach was the beach busy??BR>Reply "Err not, not horrendously, no. I mean there was some other windsurfers there err you know I remember when I was out windsurfing you know seeing other people windsurfing as well.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "But you know, again, it wasn’t particularly busy.?BR>1485 "How long do you think you stayed out there for??BR>Reply "I think I was probably out there the best part of a couple of hours.?BR>1485 "So we’re saying around about six o?clock ish, would that be about right??BR>Reply "Err well I mean we were probably, as I say, windsurfing I was windsurfing around two to four o?clock, then we had the girls come down so there was some playing on the beach.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "Then we went for something to eat and then we left the err restaurant and err you know, I hadn’t got a watch on me, I hadn’t you know I hadn’t got a mobile, all we had was the camera which you know as I say the time on that suggests that we left the restaurant err you know after six o?clock, so you know just working backwards…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "The time that I thought we’d finished you know…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>00:27:23 Reply "Water sports would be around four o?clock, then a bit of time on the beach and then you know your meal, which would take an hour, which seems to fit in with the, you know the timescale of events.?BR>1485 "So who did you leave on the beach when you, when you walked up??BR>Reply "When, when we left we didn’t leave from the beach we left from the err restaurant.?BR>1485 "The restaurant, but who did you leave at the restaurant??BR>Reply "Err the, basically the err the children and the ladies that stayed behind, err just to finish off there and err and then we, you know Fiona said to me we’d better get going if you’re gonna miss all the, you know any activities err so we said right well we’ll go, we’ll get up there and you know play tennis.?BR>1485 "Yeah, when you say the ladies, that was Fiona and…?BR>Reply "Yeah, Jane and Rachael, yeah.?BR>1485 "Right, and the respective children??BR>Reply "Yes, yes.?BR>1485 "Okay, and who did you walk back to the Ocean Club with??BR>Reply "Err there was Russell and Matt. As I say I can’t, can’t remember what hap, whether they went, we peeled off and they carried up to the apartment and I said oh I’ll just go down to the tennis, you know, I can’t remember exactly what happened at that stage, but I know I went and spoke to Gerry.?BR>1485 "So on your way back what route would you take on the way back? There’s a map for this one.?BR>Reply "Yeah, we…?BR>00:28:40 1485 "Unfortunately the map doesn’t show the beach, it’ll show the proximity going back to the apartment block. Which way is the beach? If you imagine, or if you look at, that’s, there’s the Tapas.?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "So that would have been Kate and Gerry’s apartment.?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "So you’d walk round there from your Tapas, so which way would the beach be??BR>Reply "Okay, so, sorry that’s the, is this the Tapas here??BR>1485 "That’s the Tapas yeah.?BR>Reply "Yeah, so our apartments would be about here so err you know we went, crikey, the Ocean Club is there I presume, does that say Ocean Club? Yeah.?BR>1485 "The Ocean Club garden.?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "I think that’s the Ocean Club in general.?BR>Reply "Yeah the main reception part sorry, so we, we would walk past here, this is the Supermarket I presume, here.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "You’d walk past that way. There’s err you know we’d go along past the err Ocean reception down and then there was a road which kind of like quite a steep road which had err there was a small Supermarket there.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "There was err a pub there which I think was quite popular with err you know locals and holiday makers and that, that road led you right down and at the end of the road is the err restaurant. Now, you know, I wouldn’t say every time we walked back that way, there, there was another route that you, we, we cut through as well but I, I’m pretty sure that night we walked up that way and round because I know we walked past the Ocean Club.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>00:30:14 Reply "But err…?BR>1485 "Okay, but how long would that generally take you??BR>Reply "How long? Err I’d say, yeah ten fifteen minutes walk.?BR>1485 "So when you got back to the apartments or the complex.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "There’s the tennis courts there.?BR>Reply "Yes.?BR>1485 "So presumably what you’re saying is you walked up with Matt and Russell.?BR>Reply "Yeah, yes.?BR>1485 "That way.?BR>Reply "As far as I can remember…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "That, you know, I just seemed to have got the images of walking past the reception.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "Well the only way we could have walked past the reception is if we’d have gone that route.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "So that’s what I’m basing my err recollection on.?BR>1485 "Did you go straight then to the tennis courts??BR>Reply "Yes, I think I did, I think I’d gone straight there to chat with Gerry just to check that, you know, what was going on and everything and then went err went back to see Kate after.?BR>1485 "And what was Gerry doing??BR>Reply "Err Gerry had been, you know, playing you know tennis already, he was having a good err game and I think there was you know, and there were a couple of the other tennis players who had specifically gone out there on a Mark Warner holiday to play tennis and you know Gerry was, you know, getting a lot out of the week from the tennis and made friends with those people and he was having a good game with them. Err so you know he would basically be playing tennis.?BR>1485 "Yeah, and at what point did you have the conversation with him? Did he stop the game or did you speak whilst he was playing??BR>00:31:48 Reply "I can’t remember, I can’t remember. I, you know, in my mind, you know, he stopped playing and you know but I can’t remember if I’m perfectly honest.?BR>1485 "And how long did you stay and watch the game for??BR>Reply "Err all I remember is I was having a, you know, a brief conversation with Gerry, err you know and then you know I went back, I didn’t actually stay there for too long because of the time, you know, was ticking by err but again these are, you know…?BR>1485 "Afterwards.?BR>Reply "Yeah, recollections rather than you know whether there was anything in between, there could well have been.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "So where were you going then? Presumably you weren’t going to play tennis were you? When you left the beach, what was…?BR>Reply "Yeah, oh yes that was always the intention and that’s what Fiona was saying, look if you’re actually gonna do anything tonight you’d better get yourselves up there and it’s getting quite late so that was, you know, that’s the reason we’d all gone ahead because we waited till the children had finished eating and err got in the prams and got up there, you know it takes another five ten minutes on top walking back with them, err then you know we’d have lost the opportunity. Err again, presuming that you know the tennis was usually around six thirty, that if you know, if we’re leaving the restaurant you know, quarter past six or whatever, around that time, that you know if we’d leave it much longer with it taking ten minutes or whatever to walk up just to start the tennis at half six, you know we were already cutting it fine and I think as it transpired we were playing tennis till you know even beyond there, it was quarter to seven, or around then and err you know if we’d have left it much later then we just thought well it’s gonna finish, so.?BR>00:33:29 1485 "Right, were you going for a lesson or were you actually going to play??BR>Reply "We were gonna play, there was obviously me, Matt and Russ, and Gerry was making up the four, fourth err person.?BR>1485 "But he was already playing??BR>Reply "Yeah he’d already been playing and that’s partly the reason that he kind of like threw in the towel early and said ah you know I’ve had, enough’s enough, I’ve had a good day and err but then we managed to get Dan, the pro, just to play a bit with us err you know so that made up the four ball err just for a little while.?BR>1485 "So your four…?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "Was yourself, Matt, Russell and…?BR>Reply "Well it started off with Gerry and we had a bit with him and then Dan played a bit.?BR>1485 "And Dan, Dan replaced Gerry then did he??BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "How far through the game was that??BR>Reply "I can’t remember.?BR>1485 "Sets wise??BR>Reply "Err you know whether we played one, you know again this is just, yeah usually we’d play a set and then change over so most likely it would be Gerry played a set and then left, that was most likely how it happened.?BR>1485 "Okay, and it was at what point that Gerry said to you go and, would you mind checking at Kate??BR>Reply "Well I mean coming back from the beach I’d got no equipment to play tennis you know, etcetera, so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing tennis in, and err so he knew that I’d walk up that by and past so he said oh why don’t you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, the way up, so it was on the way back from me picking the stuff up.?BR>1485 "Right, so you’ve walked past, you’ve walked past Gerry’s apartment to get to yours.?BR>Reply "Mm.?BR>1485 "Got changed??BR>Reply "No, you know it was, again whether it was, in my mind it was on the way up that I’d popped in to Kate but it could have been on the way back, again, I’m sorry.?BR>1485 "No, it’s okay.?BR>Reply "For my vagueness.?BR>00:35:21 1485 "But either way you’d have had to walk past because you go the roadside don’t you??BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "So you’d have had to walk past Gerry’s…?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "Front door twice wouldn’t you??BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "Is that right??BR>Reply "So, the reason why I think it was more likely that I did it on the way there was because I’ve called in through the err patio, it kind of made more sense that I’d have walked in through the gate and then up through the you know where the sliding doors are to say I’m here, rather than going up to my apartment, coming back down, coming past the apartment and then coming in the sliding doors.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "Because what I would have done is I’d have got changed and gone downstairs and then knocked on the front door because that, you know that would have made more sense rather than going all the way round and…?BR>1485 "Yeah, course.?BR>Reply "So that’s in my mind why it makes more sense that it was, that that was on the way up.?BR>1485 "Right, so how long did you spend in your apartment before, I know you, I appreciate that you can’t recall whether it’s going or coming.?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "The likelihood is that it’s on the way.?BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "How long did you spend in your apartment??BR>00:36:24 Reply "I mean again, we’ve you know, we’ve chatted about the timings and everything and you know looked at the photographs and you know, you know we were leaving about quarter past six from the err restaurant, we’d gotta walk up there, ten, fifteen minutes, conversation with Gerry, conversation with Kate, you know that’s another five, ten minutes on to your ten, fifteen minutes walk so you’re talking twenty five minutes, so that’s taken you to twenty five to, twenty to seven, well you know we were certainly playing tennis for a, you know the best part of an hour err so you know it couldn’t have been long that I was in the apartment, you know a matter of minutes.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "You know just to pick the kit up and, and then go back down really.?BR>1485 "Did you have your own racquet??BR>Reply "I didn’t, no, I was using the, err Mark Warner’s racquets.?BR>1485 "Mark Warner’s, okay. I just want to revisit the going and seeing Kate before we move on.?BR>Reply "Mm.?BR>1485 "Alright, and the reason why I’ve kept it separate is because I want you to just think now.?BR>Reply "Mm.?BR>1485 "And imagine, remember what you saw.?BR>Reply "Mm.?BR>1485 "Did you open the door, slid door? Or was it already open? Or…?BR>Reply "Err I think it was already open, I think it was already open. Err you know, as I say, I walked up there, Kate was you know I say looking very relaxed and err I say a comment to her I said well crikey it’s early, early for them to be getting ready you know for bed, as I say she said ah no, I’ve had such a good, you know such a good day and afternoon err so you know, and Gerry’s just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn’t, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there’s, there’s you know nothing that normally…?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err…?BR>1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.?BR clear=all>
Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn’t, no I didn’t go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it’s early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry’s, you know just finished over there, we’re going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn’t many minutes that I was, was there.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I’d gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.?BR>1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment??BR>Reply "I did.?BR>1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door??BR>Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.?BR>00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I’m gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.?BR>Reply "I’m afraid that is, you know I’m, I cannot recall at all. I know that’s, you’d think that’d be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn’t say exactly what they were wearing. Err…?BR>1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example??BR>Reply "I can’t, no.?BR>1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child??BR>Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.?BR>1485 "And were they standing up? Sitting down??BR>Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.?BR>1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you??BR>Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I’m very sure that if you’d have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they’d all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we’d all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I’d be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she’d definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.?BR>1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine??BR>00:42:39 Reply "It was.?BR>1485 "How many minutes, you said as a matter of minutes and then you went back and then you played tennis.?BR>Reply "Mm.?BR>1485 "I’m gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.?BR>Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I’d say three minutes, five maximum.?BR>1485 "Three to five??BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "So then you step back out, did you leave the doors open or did you close them??BR>Reply "Err I couldn’t remember. You know, again, I’ve got the, in my mind that the doors were open when I went in and I probably would have just walked out back that way, you know, it still, I mean it’s still relatively nice outside, it was light and everything so err you know I, I, whether they kept the door open it’s just nice when it’s the end of the evening you know, sorry, you know the end of the afternoon, but if I’m perfectly honest the answer to that question is I can’t remember.?BR>1485 "Okay. So then you went back and then you played, you played a game for about an hour??BR>Reply "Yeah.?BR>1485 "You think from seven, from about seven till about eight??BR>Reply "Yeah, I mean it must, I mean it was before, I mean we got back before eight o?clock err you know so perhaps just before seven, err sorry, err yeah just before seven so it was just before eight o?clock. As I say when I got back I think I was cutting it fine and Fiona was still keen to go for a run and we started to get everyone ready for bed.?BR>1485 "Yeah.?BR>Reply "And err so it was, as I say, about an hour but certainly we’d finished before eight o?clock.?BR>00:44:18