NANCY GRACE

Portuguese Prosecutor Refers McCann Case to Judge for Decision

Aired September 11, 2007 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A beautiful 3-year-old little girl, baby Maddy, reportedly snatched during a luxury resort vacation. Her parents party at a dinner 100 yards away at the time, leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings home alone. Police name Maddy`s own mom and dad crime suspects.
Headlines tonight, stunning developments continue at a rapid pace. Now we learn police turn over 1,000-plus pages of evidence and prosecutors take their case to a top judge, that judge to make the final charging decision, police reportedly seeking charges of homicide and concealing the baby`s body.

And tonight, reports that baby Maddy`s DNA, possibly blood, found in three distinct places, one under the carpet in the trunk of the McCann rental car, two, another spot in that same rental car, three, on the windowsill on the McCann luxury rental condo. Police now refuse to confirm a 100 percent DNA match to baby Maddy. But this combined with newly released evidence that huge amounts of Maddy`s hair found inside that car rented by Maddy`s family 25 days after she goes missing -- hair. And as we go to air tonight, word that police are searching a local church in the baby Maddy mystery.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madeleine McCann has been missing for four months. But in one day today, a number of significant developments. First of all, the police delivered their report to the prosecutor here in Portimao. Then they quickly passed it to a local judge. It could mean that he is aiming to impose respel (ph) restrictions on Kate and Gerry McCann, might mean that he`s applying for a warrant, or it might mean that he`s looking for new surveillance permission of some kind.

It comes after unconfirmed claims that Madeleine McCann`s DNA has been found in the car hired by her parents after she disappeared and that that DNA is a 99 percent match. The Portuguese police point out DNA results are never conclusive.

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GRACE: And tonight, an assistant principal heads to the middle school in her Mercedes, upscale Cincinnati suburbs. But uh-oh, she leaves something in the car. That`s right, her 2-year-old baby girl. Temperatures over 140 degrees in the car. Cause of death, the heat. Mommy says she forgot the baby, but she remembered to bring doughnuts for the teachers. As vigils go on for baby Cecelia, we discover Mommy has done it before plenty. But why do prosecutors refuse to bring charges?

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A suburban Cincinnati community holds a candlelight vigil for 2-year-old Cecelia Slaby, the toddler left to die in temperatures topping 140 degrees in a Mercedes SUV. Her mom, young assistant principal Brenda Slaby, says she planned to drop her baby at the sitter`s, but being too early, picked up doughnuts for the teachers instead. Brenda claims she forgot the little girl in the back seat after dropping off baked goodies for the staff. Some eight hours later, her little girl is dead.

Prosecutors say they will not file charges even after it`s revealed it`s not the first time she`s done this to the little girl. She managed to remember hot doughnuts but not the hot car her child died in.

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GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

First, breaking news. Tonight, prosecutors take their case to a top judge for a charging decision in the baby Maddy mystery.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that it is an investigation that`s lasted more than four weeks. There will be a lot of paperwork, and also, there have been some very lengthy interviews with Gerry and Kate McCann, 11 hours last Thursday for Kate, followed by another 4 hours the next morning, and 8 hours for Gerry that afternoon before both of them became formal suspects in the disappearance of their own daughter.

Now, we understand the prosecutor will be going through these papers, and he could decide one of three things. He could decide either now there is enough evidence to charge either Kate, Gerry or both of them for the disappearance of their daughter, or he could decide that more evidence is needed. Or alternatively, he could decide that the police have gone down the wrong avenue and need to change their line of investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gerry McCann, Madeleine`s father, had posted a message. He posted a blog on the Web site that was created for Madeleine shortly after she disappeared. On the message, he said he and his wife, Kate, had nothing to do with her abduction.

GERRY MCCANN, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: We have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter, Madeleine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents may have left Portugal, but their future is in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.

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GRACE: Major developments happening as the hours go by. We now know that prosecutors take their case to a top judge for a final charging decision, police handing over 1,000 pages over to prosecutors, that case now in the hands of a judge.

Let`s go straight out to Emily Chang, CNN correspondent in Rothley, England. What is the latest?

EMILY CHANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, the latest is that the case has been handed over to a Portuguese judge, who will do one of many things, possibly review the possibility of charges, possibly order fresh searches, possibly order further questioning.

But the mood here in Rothley -- and I should say that we`re live down the street from the McCann household. They have asked us to respect their privacy, and we are honoring their wishes. But I should say that this is a very ordinary, very suburban town, the McCanns a very ordinary family, and they`ve come back under extraordinary circumstances, very, very extraordinary circumstances. They are perhaps the most widely recognized couple in the world right now. And for a very quiet town, they`ve taken this in stride. They`ve been widely supportive of the McCanns over the past four months.

But with these latest developments, the McCanns being named as formal suspects earlier this week and today the case being handed over to a prosecutor, the villagers, I would say, are very confused.

GRACE: You know -- to Jerry Lawton, reporter with "The Daily Star" -- the case has been handed over by prosecutors to a judge. Jerry Lawton, I want to talk to you about the three locations -- I want to talk about the facts. I want us to decide for ourselves what we think because what does a judge sitting up on a bench know more than police and prosecutors about, Do you need a fresh search, Do you need to reinterview witnesses?

The three spots of alleged DNA, tell me where they are and what we know about them, Jerry.

JERRY LAWTON, "THE DAILY STAR": Well, Nancy, what we know at the moment -- and the police have given a briefing today. And they have said that they have got an 88 percent match on Maddy`s DNA found in the spare wheel recess in the boot of the hired car that the McCanns rented 25 days after she disappeared. Apparently, body fluids were discovered in that recess beneath the upholstery in the trunk of the car.

They`ve also recovered, apparently, from that car considerable strands of Madeleine`s hair, which are basically -- they say, couldn`t -- the amount is so large that they could not simply have been transferred there from her clothes or from any of her possessions. They say sadly that they must have come from her body.

GRACE: OK. Jerry, I`m sorry. You cut out on me. Would you repeat that last sentence, please?

LAWTON: Yes, sorry. Basically, they found considerable chunks of Madeleine`s hair, strands of Madeleine`s hair in the car. And according to Portuguese police, the quantity is so considerable that it could not have come from indirect transfer, from Madeleine`s clothes and possessions. According to Portuguese police, it must have come from Madeleine`s body, direct contact with Madeleine`s body inside the hired car.

GRACE: Joining us now, CNN correspondent, in addition to Jerry Lawton and Emily Change, Paula Hancocks is joining us from Praia da Luz. Thank you for being with us. Paula, chunks of hair? Now, I prosecuted a lot of cases where we would have a hair transfer or you would find hair on the fibers of a car, on the sheets of a bed. That is very common. But Paula, chunks of hair, not common. Very unusual, if it`s to be believed, Paula.

And also, Paula Hancocks, if you could tell me about the three different locations there is alleged baby Maddy DNA. I know about in the trunk of the car, under the carpet where you keep the spare tire. OK. That`s unusual in itself. But what are the other two locations? And tell me about the chunks of hair.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, we`re hearing from Portuguese and British media, as well, about this -- the hair, and the fact that also not all the DNA results have come back. You know, they were taken to Britain and they`re still waiting, these Portuguese police, for some of those DNA results. But certainly, the media is reporting that it could not have just been maybe one particular hair, but it is expected to be something more significant than this.

The police, we`ve been calling them. They are unable to confirm this. It is illegal for them to confirm this. They`re under a secrecy law, so it`s impossible. And of course, the McCanns themselves are bound by the law. They can`t talk now. They`re formal suspects. Of course, much of that forensic evidence is coming from the holiday apartment, as well. That`s crucial, the fact that this is where Madeleine was last seen.

GRACE: OK. So the three spots of DNA, to my understanding -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- first of all, under the carpet, in the trunk where the spare tire is kept. Number two, another spot within that same rental car. Number three, the windowsill of the luxury rental condo where they were vacationing. Is that your information, as well, Paula?

HANCOCKS: That is the information that we`re getting from the Portuguese media and also from the British media. The police themselves, as I say, are just legally bound. They cannot confirm. Every time we phone them and ask them, they have to deny it. It`s a legal obligation for them.

And of course, we`ve heard from British and Portuguese media, as well, that the church is not necessarily out of the picture at this point. This is the church where the McCanns took much comfort from. They went there on a number of occasions. And certainly, we`ve heard rumors from the Portuguese media that this was being searched, as well

We`ve actually been down there, and there`s no indication it`s being searched at this point. But this is the kind of case it is. These kind of rumors really do swirl around quite out of hand, really.

GRACE: Well, Paula, don`t police have to get a warrant to search? And if there is a warrant to search, isn`t that a public document? Why should there have to be a rumor?

HANCOCKS: They`re not physically out (INAUDIBLE) the church. We`ve been down there not so long ago to check on that, and they`re not there. There`s some building works going on behind the church. They`re building a house for the church itself. But that`s actually not happening. The only authorization the prosecutors need at this point is from the judge.

Now, as we know, the police got the evidence. They passed it on to the prosecutor. The prosecutor in record time, really, passed it on to the judge. And what Portuguese and British media are reporting is that they want to seize evidence. They want urgent authorization from the judge to seize a piece of evidence. Now, we don`t know what that is. No one knows what that is, at this point. But clearly, the prosecutor thinks it`s very key to this case.

GRACE: So let me get this straight, Paula. In their system -- everyone, as you know by now, the McCanns were vacationing in Portugal at a luxury resort. The night baby Maddy went missing -- that we know of that night -- that night, the parents were dining at a dinner party about the size of a football length away from their three children that they left alone there in the luxury rental, although we believe that there was a baby-sitting service there at the resort. They did not use that. So long story short, she goes missing that night.

Paula, are you telling me that in their system at Portugal, you have to go to a judge, much like we do, every time you seize evidence?

HANCOCKS: At this point, yes. Now, the police have all the evidence they feel they need to incriminate somebody -- we don`t know who -- or to at least give it to the prosecutors and say to the prosecutors, Look what we have, is this enough for a case? The prosecutor then has to go to the judge, who really is just an approval judge. He has to authorize that, Yes, you are allowed to either search that particular property -- you are allowed to tap that particular phone.

And also, the prosecutors would have to go to the judge if they wanted to change the status of Mr. and Mrs. McCann from "arguida," from formal suspects. If they wanted to change that in any way, they need the approval of the judge. But it is the prosecutor itself that is calling the shots. It`s just an extra level, a safeguard, if you like.

GRACE: Paula, question. Have you heard reports that there was some type of an argument between Mrs. McCann and baby Maddy overheard by a neighbor shortly before she went missing?

HANCOCKS: That`s not one that I`ve heard, I must admit. Covering this story, you hear some unbelievable rumors and speculation, much of which you just dismiss out of hand. But that`s not actually one that I`ve heard, at this point.

GRACE: Well, frankly -- to Jerry Lawton with "The Daily Star" joining us from England -- reports like that, that surface this late in the game, I think lose credibility. If a neighbor would have heard an argument like that between the mom and the daughter, it would seem to me, to maintain any credibility at all, they would have come forward at the beginning, not wait -- this happened on May the 3rd -- not wait all these months and go, Oh, yes, I think I heard something. To me, that greatly hurts the credibility of such a report.

Jerry Lawton, with "The Daily Star," what more can you tell us about the evidence?

LAWTON: Well, what we`ve heard, Nancy, is that an 81-year-old British woman by the name of Pamela Fenn (ph) lives in the apartment directly above the apartment that the McCanns were staying in. And what she has told Portuguese police is that two days before Madeleine disappeared, that she heard a young girl screaming for her father between -- for 90 minutes, until the -- until 11:45 PM, screaming, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, from inside the McCanns`s apartment.

She was concerned (INAUDIBLE) resort staff. And the screaming only ended when the parents returned at 11:45 PM, indicating that the child had been left there. That child, she presumes, she has told the police, was Madeleine. And she was concerned enough at the time to raise this with the staff at the Ocean resort. That is apparently what she`s told police in a sworn statement, which forms part of that evidence bundle that is now with the judge.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Susan Moss, family lawyer, child advocate out of New York, Ray Giudice, a veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and Joe Lawless, former prosecutor, veteran defense attorney and author out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction.

You know -- out to you, Sue Moss -- I was saying that if you don`t come forward for this long, that kind of hurts your credibility. But according to Jerry Lawton, this elderly -- this senior citizen called the resort that night and says, Hey, something`s wrong with this kid beneath me.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: What are the Portuguese police doing? They have bumbled this case from day one. We`re hearing about leads. We`re hearing about evidence that are weeks and weeks old, yet this was never examined or brought public earlier before?

But I`ll tell you something, if they only have an 88 percent match, they`re not going to be able to prove that Mom made the snatch. It sounds like what they are doing is now going back and looking at the evidence and trying to create a theory, rather than doing what they should have been doing, investigating every lead.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Mike Brooks, you and I prosecuted cases -- not to date ourselves, of course -- for many, many years before we would have DNA backup. DNA -- a DNA match is just a tiny piece of a big picture.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It is, Nancy. And 88 percent is not bad. Now, it depend if it`s mitochondrial DNA or nuclear DNA. We heard Dr. Morrone explain that last night. You know, I`m not a doctor, but I can tell you one`s better than the other. So 88 percent is not bad. But I can tell you, it sounds like the Portugal police have bungled this from the beginning. Thank God the Brits got involved.

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MCCANN: Our return is with the full agreement of the Portuguese authorities and police. Portuguese law prohibits us from commenting further on the police investigation. Despite there being so much we wish to say, we are unable to do so except to say this. We have played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter, Madeleine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Local prosecutors hand their case over to a top judge for a formal charging decision in the baby Maddy mystery.

Out to the lines. Amy in Ohio. Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on the twins.

GRACE: Can you believe it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I can`t. You`ll be a wonderful mother.

GRACE: God willing. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I`ve heard a lot about the word "bodily fluids." What does that constitute?

GRACE: Out to Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. We know it`s blood. What else could it be 25 days after a death?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, it`s possible that we`re talking about serum, which is the fluid portion of blood. When you remove the solid particles, you have serum left. That`s a possibility. It could be fluids of decomposition. It could be saliva. It could be a lot of different things, but we have the chemistry to test.

GRACE: To Dr. Gregory Davis, medical examiner joining us out of Louisville. Dr. Davis, welcome. Could the fluids be as a result of the decomposition of the body?

DR. GREGORY DAVIS, MEDICAL EXAMINER, KENTUCKY COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Very easily. It could be something called bloody purge, which is a blood- tinged fluid that often comes out of the mouth and nose.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around the village, while support is unstinting for them, people are just now beginning to have their doubts. I was talking to one lady today, a heart patient of Gerry McCann`s. He`s a heart surgeon, of course. She was treated by him. And she was saying with all of this rumor and speculation now, it`s difficult to separate fact from fiction. You just don`t know what to believe.

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