|
|
 |
|
Reply
| | | From: JOHN ROWE (Original Message) | Sent: 3/23/2008 1:24 AM |
I have just returned from two weeks in Vietnam. The tour started in Hanoi and went down to I Corps to make the rounds of all the bases and positions that were of importance from 1966-1970 including Cam Lo, Gio Linh, Khe Sanh, the Rockpile, Dong Ha, Quang Tri, Hill 55 (7th Marines, Happy Valley), Chu Lai, Phu Bai, Con Thien. I was at almost all of the sites where we had comm shots in my era. There were 16 Marines in the group including Col. Bruce Meyers who took over Khe Sanh from Lounds in April of 1968.
Briefly:
There is nothing left of 5th Comm. A new Route 1 runs right through our compound. MAG 16 residuals include the revetments, nothing else. The airstrip is shut down.
Dogpatch is a rather nice place now.
There is no access to Hill 327. It is a military area.
There is nothing recognizable on the road that fronted the compound.
The orphanage has been closed. There is a new one very close to MAG 16. Our group visited it and dropped a couple of hundred on the nuns. Not a dry eye in the group.
Nothing is left of Dong Ha except one bunker with homeless.
Phu Bai and Chu Lai are commercial airstrips.
There is one memorial at the Cam Lo plateau. The rest is brush and pepper trees.
There are some traces of our positions on Hill 55- artillery lunettes, trenches.
Khe Sanh is a coffee plantation. It is impossible to find the location of the airstrip anymore. There is a museum somewhere between the edge of the airstrip and the access gate. Jim, your waterfall no longer exists. Bridges have been removed and rivers have been dammed.
The White Elephant has been torn down.
Razorback and the Rockpile are being quarried. There will be nothing left of them in five years.
The people are wonderful. Friendly, happy, without a trace of animosity. The country is rapidly modernizing. There is virtually no trace of the war, no schrapnel, wire, brass. Only a piece of sandback and shell crater here and there.
If anyone has any residual bitterness about the war, go and see the place. You will be cured.
How in the hell did our country get that war so wrong? We fought to prevent what I saw?
If any of the Comm or Radio Relay guys want to talk about there sites in more detail, I will share what I saw and send some pictures.
Semper Fi, John Rowe
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) |
|
|
Reply
| | | From: Dick | Sent: 9/3/2008 3:50 PM |
Guys, I never did try and crush beer cans on the forehead as I already had a cracked scull with a little knob that aches when the weather turns. Didn't need any more brain shaking than I already had. Also, there's the chance one may get branded as what we in MT call a "Crescent Head". That scar came about in two ways: one from taking a quick nap to close to your beer can on the bar, or from smashing cans. Now Ben's use of FNG's as can crushers to save space in the garbage can was a novel approach. Not only did the FNG perform an essential task for the unit, but smashing Crown beer cans probably got him a crescent head badge of honor as proof! Mikey as negotiator was a damn good pick judging by his gift of gab and quick comebacks, but I found out stress can happen to cops too. My second run in in '83 with a weapons mess, got me my first "choice" for VA groups. In that group was ol Marine Sgt. Ric Benzel, ( MP's, Danang, Tet) who it turns out was given the same choice ...only by his police commander for "excessive use of firearms" while on duty. At coffee with him after one session, it turns out he was the cop I saw coming after me during my "episode". I believe if he would have seen me, I'd be six feet under with his brand of negotiating. We met for coffee often after that until I moved. At that time there was probably not much training ( budget) in that police force for negotiators, but I see later on, newpapers reports on stand off's and such using negotiators so I think it might have been a police force evolution ( federal grants )for training them. Ric finally had to get off the force and went into construction, where some years later got decapitated on a Bob Cat loader. It's because of him that any run in with the law after that, there was no back talk what so ever as he might be a Ric. I think of that and I beleve it was more respect for their side arm as I did not know if the cop was having a bad day or not, and focusing on his weapon seemed the best thing to not add anymore stress in his decisions on how to handle this asshole. Then there's a story of a neighbors party I went to that really made the hair on the back of my neck stand up...they were all law enforcement people! US marshals, cops, sheriff deps, women jailors etc.. But, if I passed that one I'd be dead in a week. :-) SF, Dick |
|
Reply
| |
Hey "Knobhead", (Heh, heh, heh....) I knew there had to be some kind of neurological reason for your particular brand of madness, as mere insanity wouldn't explain it. Kinda like Charles Whitman up there shooting people from the university clock tower in Austin, a great big ol' tumor on his brain. Personally, I'm not worried about a brain tumor, as I would have to have a brain for which it to attach. No chance of that. Of all the things I loved about being a cop, being a negotiator was absolutely the most fun and rewarding. Nobody will ever invent a drug that will give you a bigger high than the one you get when somebody comes out unharmed after hours of your racking your brain trying to find just the right words to come to that resolution. We used every device and trick we had learned in many, many hours of training and made up a few on the spot if the usual ones didn't work. I used humor, because I knew just as soon as that barricaded guy laughed with me - I had him. He was going to make it out okay and we weren't going to have to use our Quantico-trained sniper. Yeah, I loved being a street supervisor and teaching the new guys how to do the job (and I just found out that one of my "newbies" of 1981 - who as a Captain took me around at the station he commanded some years ago and introduced him as "my first Corporal and the man who taught me how to do the job right" - has been selected to be the next Chief of Police of our department) gave me a lot of satisfaction, but every time you talk one out you save a life. There were some in our upper ranks who didn't believe in crisis management and the "contain and negotiate" doctrine, but we made believers of them and even the street cops (who, like Marines, are action-oriented people) became adherents of the patient approach. Our team got so good that we were once featured on "60 Minutes" and were chosen by the US Department of State to train foreign cops in crisis management and negotiating techniques. BTW, whenever cops get together as our retirees do once a month, the topic of conversation always gets to legendary exploits at cop parties - with a lack of clothing, common decency, but no lack of shots fired usually noted. Work hard, party harder. Mikey, Thane of Duninsane |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dick | Sent: 9/5/2008 4:41 PM |
Mikey, I guess the name my brother gave me of Knothead was the right description after I got that ding as a kid. Hmm, never thought of TBI entering into the draft-induced-volunteering for the Corps later. When I had a hair line it didn't shine at me when looking into the mirror and my hats fit better too. I think the first time I found out that the Billings force had a negotiator was when the father-in-law was trying to evict a guy and his 15 cats from a motel he managed maybe in '91 or so. He said the cops were on the phone and bull horn with him until he laid some shotgun rounds out the second story window. The assault vehicles they used were a couple large city dump trucks they backed up to the building, raised the beds so as to block the second story line of fire, then lobbed in the CS. Guess there were cats, cops and all kinds of traffic in the smoke but they got the guy out OK and no body hurt. Had to have hazmat people in first, then remodel the unit. I'm thinking more from the cats than the CS dust. It looks like your outfit was in the cutting edge of negotiating tactics and there's sure been a lot of movies and TV shows about it. There must be a zillion stories out there for the writters to take ideas from. Now, we have to get you an agent in case Hollywood finally discovers you. Yep, being a semi out-law ending up at a law enforcement party and hearing the stories flow after lots of booze,...let's say I thought I may have been safer in Nam after that one. :-) SF, Dick |
|
Reply
| |
Dick, They used a garbage truck for a tactical vehicle? I'll bet you a dime to a donut that at least one of the members of the tac team was a jarhead, because that's a classic case of Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. I love it! We once borrowed an old M-8 Greyhound armored car converted to a tac vehicle from the US Park PD to extract some officers who were pinned down and our Emergency Services Team managed to get the hell shot out of it before I finally talked the guy out. We offered to get it fixed, but the US Park PD guys were so impressed with all of the bullet gouges that all they did was get the glass block view ports replaced. Our barricaded subject had been the tactical training instructor for the American Nazi Party and he knew his business pretty damned well. When the armored vehicle came up the street, he loaded up with AP ammo and blazed away and we never got a clear sniper shot at him. We were getting ready to burn the house down over his head while pinning him down with automatic weapons fire when he gave up. That was probably the closest I ever came to losing one of my "clients". Truth be told, I wouldn't have cared if they had barbecued or blasted him. Nazi child molesters ain't my favorite kind of folks and he's the only one I ever had that I didn't talk with for awhile after it was over. Mikey, Thane of Duninsane |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dick | Sent: 9/7/2008 5:44 PM |
Mikey, No, they weren't garbage trucks in that seige, but large city gravel trucks, maybe 5 yarders? The father-in-law used to run a wrecking yard so he kind of saw the cops intent or request as those trucks load box also had over-haul racks that extended over the cab of the truck and added extra cover with the boxes raised. See, pass that on to your active duty boys for a second story seige tactic. Ufta! I don't blame you for not quickly following up on that Nazi prick, when they're that far gone in paranoia and perversion, aint much one can do with them...Gitmo? I recall some skin head shit that happened in Billings some time back, painted swastikas, vandalism etc., on the Synagoge and Guadalupe Parish just brought a kind of Anbar Awakening on them. Lots of townspeople and law enforcement pressure on all low lifes that cut into their illegal "income" activities that brought some "blanket party" type peer purges on the perps and were thought to have left town or just otherwise disappeared. How were they supposed to conduct underground business when these assholes were shitting on their plate? |
|
Reply
| |
Dick, The county finally got a tac vehicle, so I guess we don't need the dump trucks. I sure have to give the guys from Billings lots of points for innovation and ingenuity for that, though. I always made it a practice to spend some time with someone I'd talked out, sometimes several hours if that's what it took to cement a relationship with him. You just never knew if you'd get him again someday and if you did, he'd have someone he knew he could trust. Not with the Nazi, though. I was almost disappointed we didn't smoke him one way or another. I figure that at his age and with 5 or 6 counts of assault w/intent to murder on his dirty ass, he wasn't going to get out of the slammer in any way other than a pine box. I don't think that Vicki and her first husband, both Jewish, realized when they moved in here that the KKK used to meet just up the road from Duninsane. They've since taken their dirty sheets and headed for parts unknown. I haven't seen any crosses burned around here, anyway. Good riddance. Mikey, Thane of Duninsane |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dick | Sent: 9/8/2008 4:46 PM |
Mikey, Does your tach vehicle give cover for building second story stuff? I got it, it's like the Feds did in Waco, just drive it into the buildings first floor and let the higher ones collapse. That KKK stuff was a another bad part of our history. I just finished a book called, "The Bloody Shirt," a description given to the reb flag during the reconstruction era after the Civil War. It gave a good account of why reconsruction failed because of no follow up by the congress and military that lasted for 100 hundred years. In so many ways it was like what happened in Nam and Iraq until the surge. I often wondered if many insurgent revolutions like the Russia, China, Cambodia etc., didn't model their violent take overs from our history of the south. |
|
Reply
| |
Dick, The county acquired our tac vehicle after I was retired and I've never seen it. I know that when we had the one from US Park with the Nazi child molester, the tactical plan was to get as close to the house as possible, pin him down with automatic weapons fire, and then chuck in so many "speed-heat" tear gas canisters that he'd not be able to keep up with all the fires, forcing him out or barbecuing his sorry ass. If he came out w/his hands up, he'd be arrested. If he came out shooting, our snipers were Quantico-trained and quite simply did not miss. We made the decision to go tactical after he failed to answer the phone from about 11PM to 5AM and it was starting to get light. Say, have you ever sat there for 6 hours with a headset phone ringing in your ear? By the time he gave up I may have been crazier than he was. BTW, we'd already tried regular tear gas and all the guy did was remove his German helmet, slip on his gas mask, and wait it out by the row of 6 rifles he had lined up by caliber, each with its own stack of ammo (including the .30-06 AP) by the muzzle. We found all this out after he gave up. We were trying to avoid setting the house on fire since it belonged to his brother, the father of the alleged molestation victim and I'm glad that circumstances didn't dictate that we exercise that option and burn the innocent family's house down. Reconstruction was most emphatically not the high point of American governance. Andrew Johnson hadn't the backbone to stand up to the carpetbaggers and he was followed by Grant, who by most accounts headed the most corrupt administration in the history of the American presidency. Of course, we still have the possibilities of Bush/Cheney and Obama/Biden to consider, don't we? Mikey, Thane of Duninsane |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dick | Sent: 9/9/2008 7:02 PM |
Mikey, When's your book or movie stories coming out? I have to hand it to ya for having the patience to stick with that outfit so long. SF, Dick |
|
Reply
| |
John, Send me copies of the pics when you have a chance. S/F Jim |
|
Reply
| | | From: Jim B | Sent: 9/20/2008 4:59 PM |
Mikey, considering the lack of padding you have on your cranium, a helmet is probably a very good idea.
Jim B
From: DuninsaneDude <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Visit to Vietnam, March 1968- John Rowe
To: "5th Comm Bn" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 5:43 AM
<STYLE type=text/css>
#yiv1578981205
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgColumnHeader, #yiv1578981205 A.FrameLink, #yiv1578981205 A.HeaderLink, #yiv1578981205 A.FooterLink, #yiv1578981205 A.LgtCmd, #yiv1578981205 A.MSNLink {color:#FFFFFF;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgTitleLightBk {color:#FF6600;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgSmallLight {color:#ff0000;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgNavLink, #yiv1578981205 A.NavLink, #yiv1578981205 A.ChildLink:hover {color:#666699;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgInactiveText, #yiv1578981205 A.SystemLink {color:#666666;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgFrameTitle {color:#FFFFCC;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgTitleDarkBk, #yiv1578981205 A.NavLink:hover, #yiv1578981205 A.TitleLink {color:#CC6600;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgMiscText, #yiv1578981205 A.Cat, #yiv1578981205 A.SubCat {color:#336699;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgCommand, #yiv1578981205 A.Command, #yiv1578981205 A.LargeCommand, #yiv1578981205 A.MsgLink {color:#003366;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgHeader {color:#333333;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgStandard, #yiv1578981205 A.SystemLink:hover, #yiv1578981205 A.SubLink, #yiv1578981205 A.ChildLink, #yiv1578981205 A.StdLink, #yiv1578981205 SELECT.Standard {color:#000000;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmFgDivider {color:#CCCCCC;}#yiv1578981205
#yiv1578981205
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgStandard {background-color:#FFFFFF;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgUnknown1 {background-color:#FF6600;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgFraming {background-color:#666699;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgUnknown2 {background-color:#666666;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgHighlightDark {background-color:#FFFFCC;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgHighlightLight, #yiv1578981205 #idToolbar, #yiv1578981205 #tbContents {background-color:#FFFFE8;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgTitleDarkBk {background-color:#F1F1F1;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgAlternate {background-color:#ECF1F6;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgUnknown3 {background-color:#CCCCFF;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgDivider {background-color:#CCCCCC;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgHeader {background-color:#9999CC;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgLinks {background-color:#8696C9;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgSharkBar {background-color:#8696C9;}
#yiv1578981205 ThmBgGlobalNick {background-color:#9394A9;}
#yiv1578981205
#yiv1578981205 calfgndcolor {color:#E00505;}
#yiv1578981205 calbgndcolor {color:#E00505;}
</STYLE>
Visit to Vietnam, March 1968- John Rowe
Reply
|
|
| From: DuninsaneDude |
Ben,
What's so funny about that? A rifle isn't absolutely required for good sex, but for truly great sex, I always wear a helmet as a sensible safety precaution in case the wiring of the chandelier breaks.
Mikey, Thane of Duninsane | |
View other groups in this category.
|
To stop getting this e-mail, or change how often it arrives, go to your E-mail Settings.
Need help? If you've forgotten your password, please go to Passport Member Services.
For other questions or feedback, go to our Contact Us page.
If you do not want to receive future e-mail from this MSN group, or if you received this message by mistake, please click the "Remove" link below. On the pre-addressed e-mail message that opens, simply click "Send". Your e-mail address will be deleted from this group's
mailing list.
Remove my e-mail address from 5th Comm Bn.
| |
|
|
Reply
| |
Jim, Yep. The deleterious effects of my failure to wear a helmet on many an occasion when I should have are all too evident. Mikey, Thane of Duninsane |
|
Reply
| |
|
Hi, Jim
I'm on a trip to Arizona. Will be visiting my Maj F-18 jock at MCAS Yuma this week end. Will gather pics next week
SF,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Fowler <[email protected]>
To: 5th Comm Bn <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun Sep 14 09:33:30 2008
Subject: Re: Visit to Vietnam, March 1968- John Rowe
<http://c.msn.com/c.gif?NC=9523&NA=34131&PS=&PI=26283&DI=416&TP=http://groups.msn.com>
<http://sc.groups.msn.com/themes/R9c/pby/img/mail/mlstar.gif> New Message on 5th Comm Bn <http://groups.msn.com/5thCommBn>
<http://sc.groups.msn.com/img/R9c/c.gif>
Visit to Vietnam, March 1968- John Rowe <http://groups.msn.com/5thCommBn/_notifications.msnw?type=msg&action=showdiscussion&parent=1&item=9226>
Reply <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Visit%20to%20Vietnam%2C%20March%201968%2D%20John%20Rowe>
<http://sc.groups.msn.com/img/R9c/c.gif> Reply to Sender <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Visit%20to%20Vietnam%2C%20March%201968%2D%20John%20Rowe> Recommend <http://groups.msn.com/5thCommBn/_notifications.msnw?type=msg&action=recommend&parent=1&item=9688> Message 41 in Discussion
From: Jim Fowler <http://groups.msn.com/5thCommBn/profile?user=Jim%20Fowler>
John,
Send me copies of the pics when you have a chance.
S/F
Jim
View other groups in this category. <http://groups.msn.com/Browse?CatId=154>
<http://sc.groups.msn.com/img/R9c/c.gif>
To stop getting this e-mail, or change how often it arrives, go to your E-mail Settings <http://groups.msn.com/5thCommBn/_emailsettings.msnw> .
Need help? If you've forgotten your password, please go to Passport Member Services <http://groups.msn.com/_passportredir.msnw?ppmprop=help> .
For other questions or feedback, go to our Contact Us <http://groups.msn.com/contact> page.
If you do not want to receive future e-mail from this MSN group, or if you received this message by mistake, please click the "Remove" link below. On the pre-addressed e-mail message that opens, simply click "Send". Your e-mail address will be deleted from this group's mailing list.
Remove my e-mail address from 5th Comm Bn. <mailto:[email protected]>
_______________________
The following warning is required by the IRS whenever tax advice is given. If this email contains no direct or indirect tax advice, the warning is not applicable.
As a result of perceived abuses, the Treasury has recently promulgated Regulations for practice before the IRS. These Circular 230 regulations require all attorneys and accountants to provide extensive disclosure when providing certain written tax communications to clients. In order to comply with our obligations under these Regulations, we would like to inform you that since this document does not contain all of such disclosure, you may not rely on any tax advice contained in this document to avoid tax penalties nor may any portion of this document be referred to in any marketing or promotional materials.
_______________________
This message has been sent from a law firm and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not want us to use Internet e-mail for future messages of this kind. Thank you.
|
|
Reply
| |
|
Jim, I have a hundred pictures of the place. There is nothing that I
could send you that you that you would recognize. It is all gone,
and perhaps that is for the best.
Khe Sanh is a sweet little ville with happy kids. The old base
is a coffee plantation. None of us on the tour could even figure out where
the airstrip was. I wandered around and probably passed near our bunker,
but there is nothing left.
I am still sorting it all out. But be advised: there is nothing
left of anything we remember. The war is over, buddy.
For those of you who don't know, Jim and I go back to boot camp in 1958,
followed by radio school in San Diego and Illinois, and later, Vietnam in
1967. There is no man in my life, in the aftermath of the death
of Nick Tamiroff, to whom I feel closer.
John
Rowe
|
|
Reply
| |
It will soon be 50 years, not that John and I are getting older (alone), we are all getting older.:) It will be interesting to see what some of the old places look like now. |
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
First
Return to All Message Boards
