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Politics/War : YAY!!! A Democrat who gets IT!
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 Message 1 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSelfishShemp  (Original Message)Sent: 11/20/2005 12:24 AM

It is no surprise to my colleagues that I strongly supported the war in Iraq. I was privileged to be the Democratic cosponsor, with the Senator from Virginia, of the authorizing resolution which received overwhelming bipartisan support. As I look back on it and as I follow the debates about prewar intelligence, I have no regrets about having sponsored and supported that resolution because of all the other reasons we had in our national security interest to remove Saddam Hussein from power �?a brutal, murdering dictator, an aggressive invader of his neighbors, a supporter of terrorism, a hater of the United States of America. He was, for us, a ticking time bomb that, if we did not remove him, I am convinced would have blown up, metaphorically speaking, in America's face.

---

We will come to another day to debate the past of prewar intelligence. But let me say briefly the questions raised in our time are important. The international intelligence community believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Probably most significant, and I guess historically puzzling, is that Saddam Hussein acted in a way to send a message that he had a program of weapons of mass destruction. He would not, in response to one of the 17 U.N. Security Council resolutions that he violated, declare he had eliminated the inventory of weapons of mass destruction that he reported to the U.N. after the end of the gulf war in 1991.

---

If we withdraw prematurely from Iraq, there will be civil war, and there is a great probability that others in the neighborhood will come in. The Iranians will be tempted to come in on the side of the Shia Muslims in the south. The Turks will be tempted to come in against the Kurds in the north. The other Sunni nations, such as the Saudis and the Jordanians, will be sorely tempted, if not to come in at least to aggressively support the Sunni Muslim population. There will be instability in the Middle East, and the hope of creating a different model for a better life in the Middle East in this historic center of the Arab world, Iraq, will be gone.

If we successfully complete our mission, we will have left a country that is self-governing with an open economy, with an opportunity for the people of Iraq to do what they clearly want to do, which is to live a better life, to get a job, to have their kids get a decent education, to live a better life. There seems to be broad consensus on that, and yet the partisanship that characterizes our time here gets in the way of realizing those broadly expressed and shared goals.

---

The questions raised about prewar intelligence are not irrelevant, they are not unimportant, but they are nowhere near as important and relevant as how we successfully complete our mission in Iraq and protect the 150,000 men and women in uniform who are fighting for us there.

I go back to Vandenberg's phrase; the question is how Democrats and Republicans can unite our voice “at the water's edge�?against those who would divide and conquer us and the free world in Iraq, I add, and beyond.

The danger is that by spending so much attention on the past here, we contribute to a drop in public support among the American people for the war, and that is consequential. Terrorists know they cannot defeat us in Iraq, but they also know they can defeat us in America by breaking the will and steadfast support of the American people for this cause.

---

I like the way in which the Warner amendment recited again the findings that led us to war against Saddam Hussein and, quite explicitly, cited the progress that has been made. I do think Senator Levin’s amendment doesn’t quite do this part enough, about the progress, particularly among the political leaders of Iraq. They have done something remarkable in a country that lived for 30 years under a dictator who suppressed all political activity, encouraged the increasing division and bitterness among the Shias, the Sunnis, and the Kurds. These people, with our help and encouragement, have begun to negotiate like real political leaders in a democracy. It is not always pretty. What we do here is not always most attractive. That is democracy. Most important of all, eight million Iraqis came out in the face of terrorist threats in January to vote on that interim legislation. Almost ten million came out to vote on a constitution, which is a pretty good document, a historically good document in the context of the Arab world.

What happened when the Sunnis felt they were not getting enough of what they wanted in a referendum? They didn't go to the street, most of them, with arms to start a civil war. They registered to vote. That is a miraculous achievement and a change in attitude and action. They came out to vote in great numbers and they will come out, I predict, again in December in the elections and elect enough Sunnis to have an effect on the Constitution next year. So I wish that some of that had been stated in Senator Levin's amendment.

---

Floor Statement of Senator Joe Lieberman on Iraq Amendments to the FY06 Defense Authorization Bill

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-11_15_05_Lieberman_pf.html



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 Message 16 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFTJVlovesSYESHASent: 11/21/2005 6:51 PM
"THIS IS A PARTIAL LIST of the WMD verified to have been recovered so far in Iraq.  But thanks to the lying liberal media, most people aren't aware."
 
VERIFIED BY WHOM?   CURVEBALL
 
 
Give it up Neumie!  You're going down with your ship!!!!!
 
 LOL x 2 ! 

Reply
 Message 17 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSelfishShempSent: 11/21/2005 7:52 PM
Oh FTJ!  What part of my post is a laughing matter?  Sorry, but I don't see the humor in the situation.

Reply
 Message 18 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFTJVlovesSYESHASent: 11/21/2005 8:34 PM
Hmmm...you must be running into a LOCKED DOOR then.    Ha ha ha ha ha ! 

Reply
 Message 19 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSelfishShempSent: 11/21/2005 8:49 PM
You're going down with your ship!!!!!
 
At least I'm on a ship!  You're just dog-paddling!

Reply
 Message 20 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFTJVlovesSYESHASent: 11/21/2005 9:09 PM

Ha!  Finally Neumnuts admits that her ship is going down!!!

 

"I still got two supporters back in my country.  Neumnuts and Gi-geesh". 


Reply
 Message 21 of 30 in Discussion 
From: drew bSent: 11/21/2005 11:56 PM
 
Thanks drew, but not gonna happen - I'll never be a socialist........period!
 
Huh?  I wouldn't ask you to.  Support McCain.  Support Giuliani.  Just don't support that moronic a$$hole who's ruining this country!
 
You are nothing short of a LEMMING.
 
Hello, Kettle?  This is Pot.  You're black!!!
 
 

Reply
 Message 22 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSelfishShempSent: 11/22/2005 12:24 AM
Ah shaddup, you queen-flapplin' cl*t!
 
 
 
 
 
/find me one post, where she makes an argument......go ahead, I dare ya.

Reply
 Message 23 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFTJVlovesSYESHASent: 11/22/2005 12:54 AM
How bout first you point out one where YOU do, neumkumnuts?  
 
 
Not just print out some regurgitated fox news crap, but an ARGUMENT!

Reply
 Message 24 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLori595Sent: 11/22/2005 4:59 AM
Thank you, Drew and FTJV.

Reply
 Message 25 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCee_GeeSent: 11/22/2005 3:57 PM
Neumie......you calling Lori ignorant is like Jessica Simpson calling Christiane Amanpour uninformed.   Whenever you don't have a valid argument to present, you resort to your lame and totally unjustified line of bull : "so and so has nothing of substance to add".  Hello Kettle???  POT calling!!
 
Gigi, while obviously much more conservative than I am, is able to present her thoughts and opinions in a way that indicate that she has intelligence and arguments that are well thought out and founded in the reality that she has lived and what she has experienced.  She is not nasty and dismissive and ignorant the way that YOU are. Many of Katies political beliefs are different from mine,but she doesn't take the low road about expressing them, she's not an attack dog about them and therefore, she is respected and enjoyed.  Her sense of humor is a delight.
 
You seem to think that you have some kind of special dispensation where you can say whatever you want to anyone, no matter how hateful.  That you can call anyone any name that you wish but then will shriek like a baboon with a cactus stuck up it's ass when you feel that someone has been less than flattering or insulting to you.  You are a hypocrite, you ARE ignorant, and saddest of all is the fact that you will never even search yourself to see if there JUST MIGHT be some truth to a point of view that someone you don't like expresses.   What that is, is an absolute REFUSAL to learn or consider.  I pity you for that. 
 
You insult people on a daily basis and you think for whatever reason...it's all ok.
That you are somehow entitled.  And f*ck anyone who doesn't like it.  You run people off and away and if you were capable of having  perspective, you might realize that you are an embarrassment to many other people of republican/conservative political beliefs.
 
I don't believe this post will change one thing about you, but it felt good typing it.  Especially when I see you attacking people like Lori.  I know your response to this will be your usual.  You are coiled up like a snake in the grass, just waiting for your chance to strike, but like that snake, with the most rudimentary and reactive of brains....when you do strike...it will be just as blindly,  randomly and nonsensically as the snakes reaction would be. No wonder you love this administration.  The snake analogy fits them perfectly also.
 
To my republican/conservative friends and fellow posters here...please don't ever think that I would lump you in with Neumie.  Just as I hope you would never lump me in with Michael Moore.  MOST people ARE capable of making distinctions.

Reply
 Message 26 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCee_GeeSent: 11/22/2005 4:11 PM
Neumie foamed the following:
/find me one post, where she makes an argument......go ahead, I dare ya.
 
 
Please see post #8, this thread.  Have a nice day!

Reply
 Message 27 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSelfishShempSent: 11/23/2005 3:21 PM
I have nothing to add, your post speaks for itself.
 
 

Reply
 Message 28 of 30 in Discussion 
From: elanSent: 11/23/2005 10:49 PM
i agree neumie, lieberman get's it. the man loves his country more than he loves himself. i'd vote for him anyday. we went to war because iraq violated un resolution 1441 plain and simple. (people shouldn't forget the stockpiles of yellow cake from al qaim and all the other stuff the un had tagged and monitored when saddam didn't kick them out). the iraq war is achieving it's goal, saddam is gone and on trial, they have had two successful elections with massive turn outs, and their army and police force is shaping up. after the election on dec 15, the plan is to start our withdrawal of troops. (i reported that we were drawing down next year on this very board a couple of months ago). all the second quessing and the i would have done it this way need to stop. some dummycrats and whimpycans are stuck on stupid dancing the political dance.  just leave the troops alone and let them finish their damn job.

Reply
 Message 29 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamejoethebanagerSent: 11/24/2005 12:46 AM
So what country are we gonna invade next? If it'ssuch a great idea. and it's going so well.......we're not gonna stop with just IRAQ are we?  There are a lot of other brutal dictators in the world stockpiling a lot of other crap,  LET'S GET 'EM !!

Reply
 Message 30 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCee_GeeSent: 11/24/2005 5:53 AM
 
I have nothing to add, your post speaks for itself.
 
 
 
Thank you.  I thought it was pretty clear, myself!  Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

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