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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 1 of 35 in Discussion |
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In your opinion, should NON APOSTOLICS be allowed to post their beliefs on this board? Yes or No? |
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| Adversity can either break you or make you. The same hammer that breaks the glass, also sharpens the steel. |
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My answer to the question posed in the first post is: NO! The name of the group is Apostolic Pentecostal Oneness. That is, by its very definition, exclusive. I would tend to think that the site was created for us to fellowship with one another.
However (isn't there always a however and/or but?), there is the opportunity to use the forum to witness to non-Apostolics. In that case, my answer to the question in the first post is: YES!
But then there is this reality to consider: they ARE here. That, then, makes clear our duty: witnessing to them/using the site as an outreach ministry. |
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from:ßяǿώŋŋąї
"I personally agree with much o what has already been said, particularly the idea that those, myself included, who have other beliefs should not be trying to evangelise them."
If that is what you truly believe, then you shouldn't be here. Read the title of the group. If I went to a group entitled "Satanists," I would expect to view posts which present the idea of Satanists. If they, then, allowed me to post my beliefs, I would expect them to argue from their point of view/proselytize me. They are one in the same. Their counter arguments, their presentation of their ideas in opposition to mine, IS proselytizing. I don't know how it could be considered anything else. Boil it down, take away all the extraneous nuances, it is what is. That would be their right on their site. It would also be their right to ban me if they chose to--for whatever reason they chose.
"While I do not share or even agree with the ways of many, I accept the universal right of anyone to have conviction in their beliefs and I also feel that I have no right to tell anyone that my chosen ways are any better or more proper than theirs. I also believe that no one has the right to say their ways are better than mine. "
Too bad. It sounds as though you have no real convictions. How can a person live a life without any convictions? And, if you have any, whatever they be, how could you not try to convince those who are diametrically opposed to you? For instance, I am extremely conservative. I love to talk with liberals and try to make them see the errors of their ways. What if, for instance, someone believed that kidnapping babies and eating them is part of their religion? Could you not muster the courage and/or manhood (womanhood, personhood?) to tell this person that he is wrong?
I would hope that your answer to the question immediately above would be something along the lines of, "Yes, that is wrong, and don't mind airing my opinion regarding that--even to the baby eater if need be."
"I believe that a vital part of any kind of religious or spiritual website is to encourage the ability to those of different faiths to co-exist in some sort of harmony. To understand how each other thinks without judgements. I think there is far too much focus on what divides and not nearly enough on what is shared. There is far too much conflict based on misinformation and assumption and I feel that is a shame and hope that sharing some real information between faiths might actually help.
The above paragraph is filled with a bunch of tired cliches. Feelgoodism. One cannot navigate through life on the basis of his feelings. Feelings can be deceptive. You can feel like killing someone. You can feel like sleeping with many, many people. You can feel like eating a whole cheesecake every day. You can feel as though you are worthless. You can feel like you're the President of the United States. You can feel like someone is whispering in your ear to do certain things. You can feel like talking back to that whispering person--aloud. |
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�?B>The heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it?�?Jeremiah 17:9 |
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| | From:  Jcan071 | Sent: 4/24/2007 6:13 PM |
| Im glad your here to ßяǿώŋŋąї,God Bless you and yours. |
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| This message has been deleted due to termination of membership. |
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| | | From: Jcan071 | Sent: 4/24/2007 7:15 PM |
Billy says: I even got jcan to see my point one time. Maybe he did not agree but then maybe I will change jcan one day.
jcan:lol,please Lord open the eyes of my friend Billy and bring him into this Glorious Truth.
ACTS 24:14 "BUT THIS I CONFESS UNTO THEE, THAT AFTER THE WAY WHICH THEY CALL HERESY, SO I WORSHIP THE GOD OF MY FATHERS,.."
PROV 23:23 " Buy the Truth and sell it not; also widom, and instruction, and understanding."
ACTS 2:38 + ACTS 2:4 +ACTS 4:12 = JOHN 3:5-7 + MATT 28:19
Billy As a result of our repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins, the Word of God declares that God will fill you with the Holy Ghost. The evidence of this in-filling will be confirmed by the sign of each believer speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. (Acts 1:5,8; Acts 2:4; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 11:15-18; Acts 19:1-6)
Have you experincd the above? Please take the time to read the scriptures i mentioned.
jcan |
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Thank you to Jcan as well. As to other replies... convictions are an interesting subject. I have them - strong ones. However, I believe they are 'right for me' - not 'right for everybody'. There's a big difference - but not in strength of conviction. My ways are A set of ways, not THE ONLYset of ways. I take your point on baby eating - the usual cliche is virgin sacrifice by the way. Naturally I utterly condemn this kind of behaviour. There are lines beyond which even I consider is completely unacceptable and worthy of every condemnation. I guess I should have qualified my remarks with 'as long as others don't get harmed in the process' or something similar and I apologise if I did not make myself clear. All of which raises another large point. Different folks put those lines in different places. What is acceptable to one is not acceptable to all. Even 'get harmed' can be interpreted in many different ways - depending on your personal definition of 'harm'. I accept the right of others to draw the line according to their personal convictions. A lot of this revolves around this concept. There is a very fine line between 'I hold strong convictions which I will attempt to convince other of' and 'I will arrogantly impose my point of view on anyone I come across irrespective of whether they want me to or not'. Imagine if I decided to smoke a huge cigar in a room full of non smokers. I am convinced of my right to smoke and will impose my cancerous smog on them whether they want it or not.Not that I do feel this in reality btw. Making this distinction, I therefore don't evangelise my personal spiritual convictions in this group. I will, however, answer questions about them as I then know the questioner wants to hear what I have to say. Its not lack of conviction, its simple good manners. I have no idea quite where your last paragraph on feelings came from. I wasn't talking about feelings or feelgoodism - and don't suffer from it (if its a real disease anyway).My point is this. How can you condemn something if you don't understand it - and how can you understand it if you don't study and research it thoroughly? I believe there is much confusion of the difference between studying something and agreeing with its content or being convinced by them. There a lot of folks who feel that they couldn't study another's religion in case it endangers or somehow poisons their convictions in their own.In the first place it IS quite possible to study something for objective understanding only. Secondly, if it happenned to actually shake some of your convictions, they weren't nearly as strong as you thought they were and probably needed shaking up to expose that fact. Bottom line is this. What have you got to lose? If your convictions ARE as strong as you believe, nothing you learn could shake them. If they aren't...don't you need to know that? Actually, it occurs to me that a lot of this is about strength on conviction. Peronally, I believe that it is a lot stronger to say 'I believe my in my spiritual ways strongly, and, after having considered all the alternatives, I still think so' than ' I have only considered my way and know it to be right'. Maybe its a good thing that I do learn about the ways of others - for you I mean. After all, if all holders of all religions held their convictions without considering alternatives, evangelism of any sort would be 100% unsuccessful. |
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I see MrWonder and I cross posted. Mr Wonder... You let the Bible do the preaching. Fair enough... that's how you believe the best way. Let me ask you this. If you are trying to convince another to change his ways to your way of thinking, what are you really trying to achieve and why are you trying to achieve it? Convert him or her to an Apostolic because you feel that you are divinely inspired to do so? If that's what you want to do in reality, then what happens if you are trying to convince someone who is not Christian in any way? That person doesn't believe in the Bible in any way - so any attempt at convincing to convert because the Bible says you have to is not going to have any likelihood of working. Chances of successful conversion....0%. Something like....'My life is so much richer because of my religion in these ways... I have divine support 24/7 so I am never alone...there are some GORGEOUS members of the opposite sex at our services (just kidding - honest )..'.If someone threw that at me, I almost have to go to the service to check it out - and, you never know, I might get inspired by the service and want to attend and learn more. If your strong divinely inspired convictions lead to your desire to convert, isn't the point to SUCCEED in converting rather than ATTEMPTING to convert in a way that has very low chance of success? |
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| This message has been deleted due to termination of membership. |
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| This message has been deleted due to termination of membership. |
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Wow, ßяǿώŋŋąї, I really enjoyed your last post (#29). Personally, I want others here because I want to use this as an outreach ministry. As to the feelgoodism, I am of the opinion that your paragraph that I quoted is based on what I call feelgoodism. I am an intense, black-and-white kind of guy. I don't see grays. Actually where there are gray areas, it is something about which I don't, at present, understand GOD's point of view. But, stick around. I think that you are a worthy opponent (ideologically speaking).
I feel that I must take the time to grab onto an area of agreement. If there are lines, clear and distinct lines, we should attempt to discover them. We agree with one another that eating babies is wrong. Good. It proves that you are a reasonable person.
So now you have your beliefs. Your beliefs (I paraphrase) are kinda like: Whatever (excluding murder or other forms of injury to others) you believe is okay. Our beliefs are that if a person isn't baptized in the Name of JESUS CHRIST for the remission of his sins, and if he doesn't, subsequently, receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, he is going to spend an eternity in hell.
The two positions could not be farther from one another. We do our evangelizing BECAUSE of what we believe and out of LOVE for the souls that we believe that the Bible indicates are lost. IF we are right, then it would be a hateful act, indeed, NOT to witness to a person (no, we don't go around thumping every person that we see with a Bible).
I am not accusing you of this, friend, but many of the people who believe the "whatever a person believes is okay" will grant that right to everyone BUT Bible-believing Christians. Here is an example: It is not against the law to make fun of, ridicule, and call Christians names. In many places, if you merely utter the word "fag" in the hearing of a homosexual, YOU CAN BE ACCUSED OF A HATE CRIME. There is an instance of a person in a school who put a ham sandwich on the table of some Muslims. He was expelled for hateful acts, and the authorities are considering charging him with a hate crime. One cannot so much as look on a Q'uran without being accused of a hate crime in some countries. England is one of the worst in the world. What a shame that such a great country has been reduced to that. It is almost the end of the end (as opposed to the beginning of the end) of the U.K. |
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But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. 1 Corinthians 1:27-29
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I am glad all of you are here.  I sure hope and pray that God will lead ALL of us...in all ways of TRUTH and righteousness. |
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