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General : NRT Question  
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMiniatureTester12345  (Original Message)Sent: 1/15/2006 7:00 AM
I am curious about your suggestions for the 9 out of 10 people who are unsuccessful at quitting cold turkey.  Until I visited your site I assumed that clean nicotine delivery devices were being developed for them for eventual long term use.  Is it your opinion that every smoker can quit using nicotine if they just try harder?


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Reply
 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 1:19 AM

I occasionally get emails from people inquiring why I have such a critical view on the use of nicotine replacement products. Being that it takes time to personally answer all of these emails, I have assembled a series of articles that address different issues involving the use of nicotine replacement products for smoking cessation.

Pharmacological Aids to Smoking Cessation

Pharmacological Aids Part II

40 Years of Progress?

Quitting Methods: Who Should You Believe?

So How Did Most Successful Ex-Smokers Actually Quit?

Most expert say "Don't quit cold turkey"

Hooked on the Cure

Is Cold Turkey the Only Way to Quit?

 

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 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 1:53 AM
The above articles all address limitations of using NRT to quit smoking. Please read them all. I am going to attach one of them here though in its entirety and add a few additional comments:
 

So how did most successful ex-smokers actually quit?


 

If you look around the Internet or even request information from professional health organizations on how to quit smoking you are likely to find that the standard advice that will be given is to use a pharmacological approach, i.e., nicotine replacement products and or Zyban. Every time you see this advice you will constantly hear that these approaches double your chances of quitting. Some sites and groups come out and almost say point blank do not go cold turkey--basically leaving the reader with the impression that nobody could possibly quit this way.

In the 2003 American Cancer Society's Facts and figures (2003 Cancer Facts and Figures) there is a chart that shows the percentage of current smokers who have tried different routes at quitting smoking and also showed what percentage of current ex-smokers who quit by different techniques.

The numbers that were very telling were the percentages that broke down how former smokers had actually quit. Keep in mind this chart is limited, it does not tell us how long they have quit or some other key pieces of information--like did the people who are using quitting aids such as NRT ever actually got off the NRT. But I am not concerned about that at this moment.

So how did former smokers actually quit according to the American Cancer Society report? Those using drug therapies and counseling, 6.8%. Those using other methods, 2.1%. That leaves those who either went cold-turkey or cut down. It seems that the study authors didn't feel a need to separate these two unimportant methods, but since even they generally admit cutting down techniques do not really work, I think we can safely assume that they didn't really have any major impact on the overall number. So basically 91.4% of the people who are successfully classified as former smokers quit cold turkey. On that same page is the following recommendation:

"All patients attempting to quit should be encouraged to use effective pharmacotherapies except in the presence of specific contraindications."

You have to ask yourself how many of the successful ex-smokers in the world today would have actually succeeded if the sought out and listened to professional advice.

So for anyone looking in trying to determine what is the best way to quit, you have a choice. You can go with the experts or you can go with what over 90% of successful quitters have done. If you decide to go with the quitters all you need to do is to never take another puff!


© Joel Spitzer 2003
Page last updated by Joel Spitzer on November 25, 2003

So how do most people really quit smoking? Don't take our word for it--go talk to every long-term ex-smoker you personally know. See how many of them fall into one of the following three categories:

  1. People who woke up one day and were suddenly sick and tired of smoking. They tossed them that day and never looked back.
  2. People who get sick. Not smoking sick, meaning some kind of catastrophic smoking induced illness. Just people who get a cold or a flu and feel miserable. The feel too sick to smoke, they may feel too sick to eat. They are down with the infection for two or three days, start to get better and then realize that they have a few days down without smoking and decide to try to keep it going. Again, they never look back and stuck with their new commitment.
  3. People who leave a doctors office given an ultimatum. Quit smoking or drop dead--it's your choice. These are people who some sort of problem has been identified by their doctors who lays out in no uncertain terms that the person's life is at risk now if they do not quit smoking.

All of these stories share one thing in common--the technique that people use to quit. They simply quit smoking one day. The reason they quit had varied but the technique they used was basically the same. For the most part they are clear examples of spur of the moment decisions elicited by some external and sometimes, some unknown circumstance.

I really do encourage all people to take this survey, talking to long-term ex-smokers in their real world. People who you knew when they were smokers, who you knew when they were quitting and who you still know as being successful long-term ex-smokers. The more people you talk to the more obvious it will become how people quit smoking and how people stay off of smoking. Again, people quit smoking by simply quitting smoking and people stay off of smoking by simply knowing that to stay smoke free that they must never take another puff!

You posed your question in a manner that implied that most people who try to quit by going cold turkey will fail, and thus, the recommendation that we are using that people should quit by going cold turkey is going to undercut 9 out of 10 people who try to quit.

I see things very differently. In real world setting I see that 9 out of 10 people who quit smoking have done so by going cold turkey. I also see that most people who use NRT's to quit fail. I also see that since NRT's have become available and since almost all professional organizations are pushing NRT's as their main recommendations for people trying to quit, that the decline in smoking rates that we were experiencing over a number of decades has been hampered.

Again, I believe your question is trying to make the point that by us promoting cold turkey quitting we are undercutting most smokers from being able to quit smoking. I think if you really look at what the real world results for NRT quitting has been you may realize that by making NRT's the cornerstone of treatment is in fact steering people away from using the techinque that has allowed most successful ex-smokers to actually quit.


Reply
 Message 4 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 2:11 AM
Here is a copy of the table on the 25th page of the 2003 American Cancer Society's Facts and figures (2003 Cancer Facts and Figures):
 
 
I have seen it quoted often that I offer this information out of context--that the American Cancer Society in fact endorses the use of NRT and other quit medications. Again, here is what I have said on this exact topic whenever writing about this chart:
 

The numbers that were very telling were the percentages that broke down how former smokers had actually quit. Keep in mind this chart is limited, it does not tell us how long they have quit or some other key pieces of information--like did the people who are using quitting aids such as NRT ever actually got off the NRT. But I am not concerned about that at this moment.

So how did former smokers actually quit according to the American Cancer Society report? Those using drug therapies and counseling, 6.8%. Those using other methods, 2.1%. That leaves those who either went cold-turkey or cut down. It seems that the study authors didn't feel a need to separate these two unimportant methods, but since even they generally admit cutting down techniques do not really work, I think we can safely assume that they didn't really have any major impact on the overall number. So basically 91.4% of the people who are successfully classified as former smokers quit cold turkey. On that same page is the following recommendation:

"All patients attempting to quit should be encouraged to use effective pharmacotherapies except in the presence of specific contraindications."

You have to ask yourself how many of the successful ex-smokers in the world today would have actually succeeded if the sought out and listened to professional advice.

So for anyone looking in trying to determine what is the best way to quit, you have a choice. You can go with the experts or you can go with what over 90% of successful quitters have done. If you decide to go with the quitters all you need to do is to never take another puff!


 

Reply
 Message 5 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 2:26 AM
I thought it would be good to attach this one too in its entirety:
 

40 Years of Progress?



I am attaching an article below from the January 19, 2004 issue of TIME magazine. It talks about the decline in smoking rates in America since the original release of the U.S. Surgeon General's report in January of 1964. The author was apparently led to believe that a whole lot more quitters would be successful if they would just stop trying to go cold turkey and use the many quitting aids available that can "double a person's chance of success."

One thing I want to comment on is how the article points out that smoking declined from 42% to 23% in the past 40 years, but how the drop-off stalled in 1990. The dates are interesting.

The article is saying is that there are a whole lot more effective ways to quit than by going cold turkey. It is basically talking about NRT products and Zyban. What is interesting is that almost all of these products came into widespread use in the 1990's--the years where the rapid decline in smoking cessation actually stopped.

Nicotine gum was first approved for use in America in 1984, by prescription only. In 1991 and 1992, four patches were approved for prescription use. In 1996 all controls broke loose--the gum and two of the four patches went over the counter and Zyban was just coming into the fray.

So now we have all of these miracle products available, many without prescription. If these products were so good at increasing success, and if they are being used by so many people you would think that smoking rates would be plummeting now when compared to when people just had to rely on their own resolve to quit.

Again, read the following line from the article below:

"The drop-off in smoking stalled in 1990 and has hardly budged since then."

Lets hope not too many miracle products for smoking cessation get introduced in the future as it may result in skyrocketing smoking rates.

The real way to once again increase the long-term success rate of people trying to quit is to help them to understand that they are fighting an addiction to nicotine and that to win that fight and to stay free forever is as simple as making and sticking to a commitment to Never Take Another Puff!

 

Joel

© Joel Spitzer 2004
Page last updated by Joel Spitzer on October 15, 2004

Y O U R T I M E / H E A L T H
Stub Out That Butt!
But don't try to go it alone. Here are some tricks that make it easier to quit
By CHRISTINE GORMAN

Monday, Jan. 19, 2004

More than 42% of adult Americans smoked when the first Surgeon General's Report on Smoking and Health was published. Today, 40 years later, fewer than 23% do. That's good news, but it could be better; a lot better. The drop-off in smoking stalled in 1990 and has hardly budged since then. Surveys show that 70% of tobacco users want to quit, but kicking the nicotine habit isn't easy.

What a lot of smokers don't realize is that the most popular method of quitting; just stopping, a.k.a. going cold turkey; is the least effective. Studies show that getting intensive short-term counseling, taking drugs like Zyban (an antidepressant) or using one of the many nicotine aids (gum, patch, inhaler, nasal spray, lozenge) all double the chance of success. Preliminary results suggest that combining these methods will increase success rates even more.

The trick is to find out what works best for you. For counseling, you don't have to go into full-fledged psychoanalysis; you can pick up practical strategies from various quit-smoking telephone hotlines (for a list of numbers as well as tips, visit smokefree.gov). As for nicotine products, make sure you're using them the right way. You need to chew the gum slowly, for example, not swallowing the saliva until the nicotine can be absorbed through the cheek, says Dr. Elliot Wineburg, who has used everything from drugs to hypnosis at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City to help hard-core smokers quit. Many people try to make do with as little nicotine as possible, which is a mistake. "You don't want the brain to go into withdrawal," Wineburg says.

It's never too late to quit. As the years go by, an ex-smoker's risk of heart disease and stroke diminishes until it's essentially the same as that of a person who has never smoked, says Dr. Corinne Husten of the Centers for Disease Control's Office on Smoking and Health. Alas, the risk of lung cancer never quite gets down to what it would have been without smoking. "Even with cancer, people respond better to chemotherapy if they quit," Husten says. Best of all, of course, would be not to take up the habit in the first place.


Reply
 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 2:29 AM
One last addition here addressing your closing question of, "Is it your opinion that every smoker can quit using nicotine if they just try harder?"
 

I Can't Quit or I Won't Quit


 

"I don't want to be called on during this clinic. I am quitting smoking, but I don't want to talk about it. Please don't call on me." This request was made by a lady enrolling in one of my clinics over 20 years ago. I said sure. I won't make you talk, but if you feel you would like to interject at anytime, please don't hesitate to. At that she got mad and said, "Maybe I am not making myself clear-I don't want to talk! If you make me talk I will get up and walk out of this room. If you look at me with an inquisitive look on your face, I am leaving! Am I making myself clear?" I was a little shocked by the strength of her statement but I told her I would honor her request. I hoped that during the program she would change her mind and would share her experiences with the group and me but in all honesty, I wasn't counting on it.

There were about 20 other participants in the program. Overall, it was a good group with the exception of two women who sat in back of the room and gabbed constantly. Other participants would turn around and tell the two to be quiet. They would stop talking for a few seconds and then start right up again with just as much enthusiasm as before. Sometimes, when other people were sharing sad, personal experiences, they would be laughing at some humorous story they had shared with each other, totally ignorant of the surrounding happenings.

On the third day of the clinic, a major breakthrough occurred. The two gossips were partying away as usual. There was one young woman, probably early twenties who asked if she could talk first because she had to leave. The two gossips in back still were not listening and kept up with their private conversation. The young woman who had to leave said, "I can't stay, I had a horrible tragedy in my family today, my brother was killed in an accident." Fighting back emotions she continued. "I wasn't even supposed to come tonight, I am supposed to be helping my family making funeral arrangements. But I knew I had to stop by if I was going to continue to not smoke." She had only been off two days now. But not smoking was important to her. The group felt terrible, but were so proud of her, it made what happened in their day seem so trivial. All except the two ladies in the back of the room. They actually heard none of what was happening. When they young woman was telling how close she and her brother were, the two gossips actually broke out laughing. They weren't laughing at the story, they were laughing at something totally different not even aware of what was being discussed in the room. Anyway, the young woman who lost her brother shortly after that excused herself to go back to her family. She said she would keep in touch and thanked the group for all of their support.

A few minutes later I was then relating some story to the group, when all of a sudden the lady who requested anonymity arose and spoke. "Excuse me Joel," she said loudly, interrupting me in the middle of the story. "I wasn't going to say anything this whole program. The first day I told Joel not to call on me. I told him I would walk out if I had to talk. I told him I would leave if he tried to make me talk. I didn't want to burden anyone else with my problems. But today I feel I cannot keep quiet any longer. I must tell my story." The room was quiet.

"I have terminal lung cancer. I am going to die within two months. I am here to quit smoking. I want to make it clear that I am not kidding myself into thinking that if I quit I will save my life. It is too late for me. I am going to die and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. But I am going to quit smoking."

"You may wonder why I am quitting if I am going to die anyway. Well, I have my reasons. When my children were small, they always pestered me about my smoking. I told them over and over to leave me alone, that I wanted to stop but couldn't. I said it so often they stopped begging. But now my children are in their twenties and thirties, and two of them smoke. When I found out about my cancer, I begged them to stop. They replied to me, with pained expressions on their faces, that they want to stop but they can't. I know where they learned that, and I am mad at myself for it. So I am stopping to show them I was wrong. It wasn't that I couldn't stop smoking- it was that I wouldn't! I am off two days now, and I know I will not have another cigarette. I don't know if this will make anybody stop, but I had to prove to my children and to myself that I could quit smoking. And if I could quit, they could quit, anybody could quit."

"I enrolled in the clinic to pick up any tips that would make quitting a little easier and because I was real curious about how people who really were taught the dangers of smoking would react. If I knew then what I know now- well, anyway, I have sat and listened to all of you closely. I feel for each and every one of you and I pray you all make it." Even though I haven't said a word to anyone, I feel close to all of you. Your sharing has helped me. As I said, I wasn't going to talk. But today I have to. Let me tell you why." Then she turned to the two ladies in the back of the room, who actually had stayed quiet during this interlude. Suddenly she flared up, "The only reason I am speaking up now is because you two BITCHES are driving me crazy. You are partying in the back while everyone else is sharing with each other, trying to help save each other's lives. She then related what the young woman had said about her brother's death and how they were laughing at the time, totally unaware of the story. "Will you both do me a favor, just get the hell out of here! Go out and smoke, drop dead for all we care, you are learning and contributing nothing here." They sat there stunned. I had to calm the group down a little, actually quite bit, the atmosphere was quite charged with all that had happened. I kept the two ladies there, and needless to say, that was the last of the gabbing from the back of the room for the entire two-week clinic.

All the people who were there that night were successful at the end of the program. At graduation, the two ladies who had earlier talked only to each other were applauded by all, even the lady with lung cancer. All was forgiven. The girl who lost her brother also came for the graduation, also smoke free and proud. And the lady with lung cancer proudly accepted her diploma and introduced one of her children. He had stopped smoking for over a week at that time. Actually, when the lady with cancer was sharing her story with us, she had not told her family yet that she had even quit smoking. It was a few days later, when she was off a week that she told her son. He, totally amazed said to her that if she could quit smoking, he knew he could and stopped at that moment. She beamed with joy. Six weeks later she succumbed to the cancer. I found out when I called her home just to see how she was doing and got her son on the line. He thanked me for helping her quit at the end. He told me how proud she was that she had quit and how proud he was of her, and how happy she was that he had quit also. He said she never went back to smoking, and I will not either." In the end, they had both given each other a wonderful gift. He was proud her last breath was smoke free- she NEVER TOOK ANOTHER PUFF!

Epilog: I normally say you can't quit for someone else, it has to be for yourself. This incident flies in the face of this comment to some degree. The lady with lung cancer was quitting smoking to save her children from her fate, to some degree undo the lesson that she had taught years earlier. The lesson that she "could not stop." It was that at the time she "would not stop." There is a big difference between these two statements. It holds true for all smokers. The lady in this story proved years later she could quit-too late to save her life, but not to late to save her sons. Next time you hear yourself or someone else say, I cannot stop, understand it is not true. You can quit. Anyone can quit. The trick is not waiting until it is too late.


Reply
 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/16/2006 3:16 AM
I'm sorry, I know it looked like post number 6 in this string would be the last comment I was going to make. I was wrong. I found a few other comments that I thought would be of value in this string. From the post So how did most successful ex-smokers actually quit?
 
From: Joel Sent: 9/12/2005 9:36 AM
I see where a member who just made her one year anniversary commented on how she originally felt that she had a slim chance of success considering that she read that only ten percent of people who quit smoking cold turkey succeed till six months and only five percent make it for a year.
 
She is right, that statement is written and quoted all over the Internet and in lots of professional publications. Kind of gives the impression that quitting cold turkey is quite improbable and makes the recipient of the message almost think it is a total waste of time to even attempt to quit since the odds of success are so small. It pretty much sounds like quitting smoking is a futile effort and that there must not be many successful ex-smokers out in the world today.
 
Well, any person who bothers to go out in the world and actually talks to people are in for a surprise. There are plenty of successful ex-smokers in the world and the vast majority quit by going cold turkey.
 
In America today we have more former smokers than current smokers. Over 46 million Americans have quit smoking.  (For anyone who thinks it is impossible to quit smoking) It has to be obvious to all that people are able to quit smoking. As this article discusses the vast majority of the long-term ex-smokers did in fact quit by going cold turkey.
 
People who succeed by following the advice given at this board are not indicative of a few isolated success stories. They are just another small group among the tens of millions of other people in the world who have quit smoking and then discovered that they were able to stay free as long as they stuck to a personal commitment to never take another puff.
 
Joel

and

From: Joel Sent: 11/4/2005 4:13 AM
I am starting to see where cold turkey quitting is starting to get bashed pretty heavily in the media. One of the techniques that is being used is having smoking experts come out and say that while everyone seems to know one person who has quit cold turkey, that most people just cannot quit this way. They are trying now to undercut the real world examples that people are inevitably exposed to since since this is the way that most people have successfully quit smoking.

I would agree that if a person just seemed to know only one person who had successfully quit smoking by a certain technique, it would be a clear sign that maybe the technique was not very successful. The issue is that if people go through the trouble of finding out what technique was used by ALL of the people they know who had quit smoking, they would most likely find that most if not all of them were in fact cold turkey quitters.

 
Here is the standard commentary I use when addressing the issue of talking to ex-smokers:

I really do encourage all people to take this survey, talking to long-term ex-smokers in their real world. People who you knew when they were smokers, who you knew when they were quitting and who you still know as being successful long-term ex-smokers. The more people you talk to the more obvious it will become how people quit smoking and how people stay off of smoking. Again, people quit smoking by simply quitting smoking and people stay off of smoking by simply knowing that to stay smoke free that they must never take another puff!

Again, go talk to as many long-term successful ex-smokers (people off all forms of nicotine for at least a year or longer) in your real world that you can find and find out how they quit. I don't believe that there is a single professional smoking cessation NRT advocate who will suggest to their patients that they take a similar survey. For if they did their credibility would be called into question almost immediately when the patient starting seeing the results of their real life survey.


Reply
 Message 8 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJoeJFree-Gold-Sent: 1/17/2006 2:08 AM
Joel,
 
I would like to add three real world examples to the hundreds of Cold Turkey / abrupt and complete cessation Success Storeis that have been recorded in WhyQuit's Turkey's Triumphs.
 
My mother smoked cigarettes for over 40 years and stopped smoking by refusing to allow nicotine to re-enter her body.  Abrupt Cessation followed by Complete Abstinence.  The last 10 years of her life were lived comfortably nicotine clean.
 
I smoked tobacco for over 80% of my lifetime, more than 40 of my 49 years, but stopped smoking after I became educated about nicotine addiction January 10, 2005.  My recovery education gained at WhyQuit.com & FreedomFromTobaccoQuitSmokingNow forum greatly eased my transition from active nicotine addict to nicotine addict in remission and recovery.  I am a comfortable ex-smoker who has no want or need to ever take another portion of nicotine in any form.
 
My experience of the last year nicotine free served as example for my 88 year-old father who never 'quit' nor attempted to completely cease ingesting tobacco for over 75 years until June 20, 2005.  He is now a comfortable 'ex-smoker' or former smoker, whichever term suits you.
 
How did we and every other former smoker I have ever met succeed?  We simply changed our actions and quit smoking tobacco.  We removed nicotine from our blood serum chemistry.  We know The Law of Addiction has no exceptions.
 
To Quit Smoking you need to .....do just that.....  Quit Smoking.  Permanantly. 
 
Why?  Because the Root Cause of tobacco smoking is the need to ingest nicotine to satisfy the urges and anxiety created by addictive withdrawal.  It is a never ceasing cycle of need, feed withdraw..... on and on and on.  Until you permanently sever the cycle you cannot break free of the Junkie Jail.  Nicotine in any form simply perpetuates the cycle of addiction.
 
Joe

Reply
 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJoeJFree-Gold-Sent: 1/17/2006 2:12 AM
Is it your opinion that every smoker can quit using nicotine if they just try harder?
 
From the post "I'm not trying ..."
 
......when somebody mentions that a quit here is an attempt.  I consider what has happened here for thousands of ordinary folks like me, all hard-core nicotine addicts, nothing short of miraculous.  Freedom was / is the last best chance for many of us.  If you want to quit and stay quit (why else would you do it!?)
As BillW said above - Listen to Yoda.
 
 
Do.....
Or Do Not.
There is no "try".

Reply
 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 1/17/2006 2:27 AM
Thanks for weighing in on this one Joe. I am going to reiterate a comment I made above, and add a little to it here:

I really do encourage all people to take this survey, talking to long-term ex-smokers in their real world. People who you knew when they were smokers, who you knew when they were quitting and who you still know as being successful long-term ex-smokers. The more people you talk to the more obvious it will become how people quit smoking and how people stay off of smoking. Again, people quit smoking by simply quitting smoking and people stay off of smoking by simply knowing that to stay smoke free that they must never take another puff!

Again, go talk to as many long-term successful ex-smokers (people off all forms of nicotine for at least a year or longer) in your real world that you can find and find out how they quit. I don't believe that there is a single professional smoking cessation NRT advocate who will suggest to their patients that they take a similar survey. For if they did their credibility would be called into question almost immediately when the patient starting seeing the results of their real life survey. They will end up having to spend quite a bit of time trying to explain away the discrepancy, using excuses like the people who used NRT didn't use it right or didn't use it long enough or were more addicted smokers.

We don't need to spend time trying to explain away the results of the surveys that people will do in there real world settings. All we have to say is the results make it more and more obvious that the way to quit smoking and to stay successfully free is no more complicated than just making and sticking to a personal commitment to never take another puff.

Joel


Reply
 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: JoelSent: 7/16/2007 1:02 PM
Related videos:
 
Video Title Dial Up High Speed  Audio Length Added
How did the people you know quit smoking? 1.90mb 18.8mb 0.77mb 05:10 09/27/06
Quitting by gradual withdrawal 2.35mb 7.54mb 1.03mb 07:13 10/18/06
My first encounter with NRT 3.99mb 16.1mb 2.13mb 14:37 11/16/06

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