BIBLICAL DISCUSSION AND DEBATE

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What about the end times? The Parousia?

Eternal Torment of the wicked or Annihilation of the wicked?

The location of the righteous? (Up in Heaven? or a New Earth?)

Allan says: I've concluded that we are already living in the End Times.

Skyangel says: The end times are Past Present and Future. They will always be present with every generation on planet earth.

The disciples of Jesus were in the end times.

Jesus was in the end times with them.

They believed Jesus died in the end of the world.

They believed the end of all things was at hand which means right there present with them at the time.

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

The world is always at an end yet it will also never end. Such is the mystery of God. The earth abides for ever.

Ecc 1:4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Psa 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psa 104:5 [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever.

My comments in blue.

Poor WOG. I see you are very confused and you are contradicting yourself.

In one sentance you say..

THE CHRIST CLEARLY STATES THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ANOTHER COUNSELOR, NOT HE HIMSELF.

and in another you say..

SAME THING. THE THREE ARE ONE.

Make up your mind WOG. Are they different or are they the same? You are being double minded.

THEY ARE DIFFERENT NATURES WITH DIFFERENT PURPOSES WITHIN THE TRIUNE GODHEAD. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THIS CONFUSES YOU. IT DOES NOT ERASE THE FACT THAT THE CHRIST CLAIMS THE HOLY SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT FROM HIMSELF, YET YOU CLAIM THEY ARE THE SAME.

A double minded man is unstable in ALL his ways. James 1:8

DOESN'T APPLY TO ME.

Then you make a grand statement that...

EITHER THERE IS SPIRIT OR THERE IS PHYSICAL. NOTHING IS BOTH. YOU ARE TRULY DECEIVED.

You do make me laugh WOG. Are you physical and also spiritual or not?

I AM PHYSICAL. I EXIST IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. DO YOU EXIST IN THE SPIRIT WORLD, THEN?

Was Jesus not Physical and Spiritual at the same time?

NO. OTHERWISE, WE WOULD NOT READ THIS:

JN 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to My brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.' "

THE CHRIST WAS RETURNING TO HIS SPIRITUAL STATE IN ORDER TO BE WITH HIS FATHER.

Of course people and things can be both physical and spiritual. Jesus spoke in parables and used physical things to convey spiritual Truth.

Don't be so foolish and deceived WOG.

I AM NOT. I FEND OFF YOUR FALSE DOCTRINES QUITE EASILY.

This is another of your grand statements of your own fanciful imagination....

THIS EARTH WILL NOT BE HERE FOREVER. THIS IS MORE OF YOUR FANCIFUL IMAGINATION.

The word of God says the earth will abide forever. I thought you said you believed the Word? Now are you saying you don't believe it at all or are you simply showing your ignorance and lack of understanding?

Ecc 1:4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Psa 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psa 104:5 [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever.

HAVE YOU READ THIS?

ISA 65:17 "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.

ISA 66:22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

2PE 3:11 Since EVERYTHING will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

REV 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

I WONDER....HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THIS APPARENT CONTRADICTION IN YOUR MIND?

The Pharisees also denied Jesus so called false preaching.

YOU PREACH AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD. THE CHRIST DID NOT.

They also believed it was false and He was a liar just the same as you accuse me without proof.

I HAVE GIVEN PROOF. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY FALSE.

That is proof enough that you are of the same spirit as the Pharisees. I have given you plenty of scripture to show you the Truth but you deny the scriptures. You refuse to see the Truth. You deny the Word of God because it does not fit in with your carnal minded deceptive doctrines and then you accuse me of lying and twisting the word because you dont want to admit that you are the one who is actually twisting it to suit your own pet doctrines. You see yourself in me and you hate what you see. I am your mirror.

MY MIRROR IS THE WORD OF GOD. YOU ARE NOTHING TO ME.

I am the Light of the world. I am the Truth. I have the mind of Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I am dead, my life is hid with Christ in God, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me.

YOU ARE CERTAINLY FULL OF YOURSELF. LOL

WOG: THEY ARE DIFFERENT NATURES WITH DIFFERENT PURPOSES WITHIN THE TRIUNE GODHEAD. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THIS CONFUSES YOU. IT DOES NOT ERASE THE FACT THAT THE CHRIST CLAIMS THE HOLY SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT FROM HIMSELF, YET YOU CLAIM THEY ARE THE SAME.

Skyangel: I am not confused one WOG. You are the confused one. Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not have different natures, they are ONE. They have the same nature. They have different purposes and different bodies but not different natures. The only difference is in body and purpose.

The Holy Spirit that was in Jesus is exactly the SAME Holy Spirit that is in me and in all other people who are filled with the REAL Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the SAME comforter that was in Jesus yet He is just in a different body since He is no longer in just one body but in many human bodies on this earth.

That is why He is another comforter. He is simply in another form.... a different form, a different body, but the same Spirit.

Read John 14. carefully.

Verse 16. Jesus says the Father will give us another comforter, that He will abide with us forever.

In Matthew 28:20 Jesus himself promised to abide with the disciples for ever. .......lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus was referring to Himself as I and also as He because He was trying to make the disciples understand that He was talking about the Spirit of Truth within HIM and not about His physical body. Jesus is not ever coming back to earth with the same physical body as He has on this earth 200 years ago. He IS HERE with US forever in a different body which is the physical Church, the body of Christ.

Who is this comforter?

Verse 17. The comforter is the Spirit of Truth. (Jesus said elsewhere that He ( Jesus ) is the Truth.) In the same verse Jesus says the world cannot receive Him because it cannot see Him. The world is blind to Him. Carnally minded people are blind to the Spirit of Truth. Then in the same verse Jesus says BUT YOU KNOW HIM because HE DWELLS WITH YOU. Who was the Spirit of Truth dwelling with them at the time? It was Jesus Himself because the Spirit of Truth was in the body of Jesus. Jesus said HE SHALL BE IN YOU.

Verse 18 .. I will Not leave you comfortless. I WILL COME TO YOU.

Who was the Father going to send back to be IN US ? It was the SAME Spirit of TRUTH which dwelt in the body of JESUS at the time. He was with the disciples but not in the disciples at the time.

verse 20. In that day.. In what day? In the day that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell IN YOU. you will know that I am in my Father and you are in me and I am in YOU.

The HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU is JESUS IN YOU ( in the body of the church) in the form of another physical comforter on this planet earth. That makes YOU ( the body of Christ) the body of the comforter IF the comforter is IN YOU and you are IN HIM and IF you are dead and your life is HID with Christ in GOD.

Verse 26. the comforter is the HOLY GHOST. It is the same HOLY GHOST which was speaking to the disciples at the time.

Then keep reading to chapter 16:7-8 . Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

verse 13.... Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Chapter 17:23... I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Jesus is praying that the Father will send the comforter to be IN the disciples. He is praying that the Spirit of TRUTH which is IN HIM will be IN US and that WE may be ONE IN HIM.

When we are ONE IN HIM then we are perfect because perfection comes from complete UNITY in the Lord.

Please believe me and stop being carnally minded. Open your eyes and open your heart to the Spirit of TRUTH.

John 4:26 I ( the Spirit of TRUTH ) that speak to you am He.

I ( Skyangel ) am in HIM (Jesus) and He (the comforter) is in me.

I am the Light of the world.

I exist in the physical world and also in the spiritual world at the same time. I am where HE IS. I am not of this world.

WOG : I WONDER....HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THIS APPARENT CONTRADICTION IN YOUR MIND?

Skyangel : There is no contradiction. I can reconcile it very easily but you are not ready for the meat of the WORD yet. Let me know when you understand post 34 and agree with it. Then I will explain the apparent contradiction to you which is not a contradiction at all.

WOG: YOU PREACH AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD. THE CHRIST DID NOT.

Skyangel: TRUTH can never preach against the TRUTH. I say what the Father tells me to say. You are the one who is not hearing what I am saying because you are deaf.

WOG : I HAVE GIVEN PROOF. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY FALSE.

Skyangel. You have an illusion of proof which proves nothing at all. The Pharisees also thought Jesus was false. You are of the same spirit as they are.

WOG: MY MIRROR IS THE WORD OF GOD. YOU ARE NOTHING TO ME.

Skyangel: I am the Light of the world. I am the Truth. I have the mind of Christ. I am crucified with Christ. I am dead, my life is hid with Christ in God, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me.

WOG : YOU ARE CERTAINLY FULL OF YOURSELF. LOL

Skyangel: Yes, I am the Spirit of Truth who is FULL of TRUTH. My righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. If you were not so blind and deaf you would recognise me.

REPENT of your self deceptions.

OPEN your eyes and see. LISTEN to the Spirit and HEAR.

I would interpret talk of the "End" to be of the "End of the Age" rather than the "End of the World". It's easy for us to imagine the End of the World, because we can actually do it, atomically, biologically, chemically, demographically, ecologically and we're only up to the letter "e". No first century Jew could imagine God annulling Creation because God said it was "Very Good" and God doesn't go back on God's word. So what are we talking about when we talk about the End of the Age? It's the Evil Age filled with ungodliness that God is ending through us. That doesn't mean that God's going to kill all the atheists or non-Christians. But rather that God is restoring the wrongs of this world through us. God is feeding the hungry through us, clothing the naked through us, loving the unloved through us, fighting injustice through us and ending war through us. The point is that we have to get with God's program, we have to institutionalize it and we have to live it. That's the End Times.

WE DIFFER IN OUR POINTS OF VIEW, THEN. I AM NOT SURPRISED. LOL

TWIST IT, SKY.

Read John 14. carefully.

Verse 16. Jesus says the Father will give us another comforter, that He will abide with us forever.

YES....REFERING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT THE CHRIST HIMSELF.

In Matthew 28:20 Jesus himself promised to abide with the disciples for ever. .......lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus was referring to Himself as I and also as He because He was trying to make the disciples understand that He was talking about the Spirit of Truth within HIM and not about His physical body.

I AGREE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE SON AND THE FATHER ARE ONE. BUT, THEY ARE ALSO SEPARATE NATURES. YOU HAVE MUCH TO LEARN.

Jesus is not ever coming back to earth with the same physical body as He has on this earth 200 years ago. He IS HERE with US forever in a different body which is the physical Church, the body of Christ.

I NOTICE YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO GIVE ANY SCRIPTURE QUOTE THAT PROVES THAT LITTLE FALSITY. LOL

Who is this comforter?

Verse 18 .. I will Not leave you comfortless. I WILL COME TO YOU.

Who was the Father going to send back to be IN US ? It was the SAME Spirit of TRUTH which dwelt in the body of JESUS at the time. He was with the disciples but not in the disciples at the time.

verse 20. In that day.. In what day? In the day that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell IN YOU. you will know that I am in my Father and you are in me and I am in YOU.

The HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU is JESUS IN YOU ( in the body of the church) in the form of another physical comforter on this planet earth.

THE CHURCH IS NOT THE OTHER COUNSELOR. THAT IS MORE FALSE DOCTRINE, SKY. TRY AGAIN.

That makes YOU ( the body of Christ) the body of the comforter IF the comforter is IN YOU and you are IN HIM and IF you are dead and your life is HID with Christ in GOD.

DON'T EVEN TRY TO PULL ME INTO YOUR RAVINGS.

Verse 26. the comforter is the HOLY GHOST. It is the same HOLY GHOST which was speaking to the disciples at the time.

PROVES MY POINT....THE CHRIST IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT. THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE PARTS OF THE WHOLE GODHEAD WITH DIFFERENT NATURES.

Chapter 17:23... I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

THIS DOES NOT EXIST IN THE CHURCHES AT THIS TIME.

Jesus is praying that the Father will send the comforter to be IN the disciples. He is praying that the Spirit of TRUTH which is IN HIM will be IN US and that WE may be ONE IN HIM.

I HAVE NEVER DENIED THE CHRIST WAS FILLED WITH THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT AS BELIEVERS ARE NOW. HE IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT, THOUGH.

When we are ONE IN HIM then we are perfect because perfection comes from complete UNITY in the Lord.

THIS IS A LIE. THE CHRIST SAID THIS IS HOW WE ARE PERFECT IN HIS EYES:

MT 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

I am the TRUTH.

THERE IS NO TRUTH IN YOUR WORDS.

Please believe me and stop being carnally minded. Open your eyes and open your heart to the Spirit of TRUTH.

YOUR WORDS ARE LIES EVERY TIME YOU TYPE.

John 4:26 I ( the Spirit of TRUTH ) that speak to you am He.

I ( Skyangel ) am in HIM (Jesus) and He (the comforter) is in me.

YOUR FRUIT SAYS OTHERWISE, SKY.

I am the Light of the world.

I exist in the physical world and also in the spiritual world at the same time. I am where HE IS. I am not of this world.

IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE HOW CLEVER YOU ARE AT TWISTING THE WORD OF GOD TO MAKE IT APPEAR TO SUPPORT YOUR STRANGE DOCTRINES.

AS I SUSPECTED, YOU HAVE NO CLUE. LOL

Skyangel: TRUTH can never preach against the TRUTH. I say what the Father tells me to say. You are the one who is not hearing what I am saying because you are deaf.

I AM DEAF TO YOUR STRANGE FALSE DOCTRINES. THAT IS FOR SURE.

Skyangel. You have an illusion of proof which proves nothing at all. The Pharisees also thought Jesus was false. You are of the same spirit as they are.

CONSIDERING THE SOURCE OF THAT REMARK, I AM COMFORTED.

YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A FALSE PROPHET DISGUISED AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. I HAVE PROVEN YOU SUCH.

Skyangel: Yes, I am the Spirit of Truth who is FULL of TRUTH. My righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. If you were not so blind and deaf you would recognise me.

I DO RECOGNIZE YOU. YOU ARE THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST.

REPENT of your self deceptions.

I HAVE NONE OF WHICH TO REPENT.

OPEN your eyes and see. LISTEN to the Spirit and HEAR.

I HAVE AND I DO. THAT IS WHY I CAN SO EASILY PROVE YOU FALSE.

The only thing you have proved to me WOG is that you are of the same spirit as the Pharisees were and just as blind and deceived and you also cannot recognise Truth when it is standing right in front of you.

May GOD have mercy on you and forgive you because you clearly don't have a clue what you are saying or doing.

May GOD have mercy on you and forgive you because you clearly don't have a clue what you are saying or doing.

I NOTICE YOU ATTACK THE PERSON WHEN YOU CANNOT PROVE YOUR THEOLOGY RIGHT, OR THEIR'S WRONG, USING SCRIPTURE.

You are so blind that you would not see it even if I shined a blazing torch on it. You cannot recognise TRUTH at all. because you are as blind as the Pharisees who told Jesus He was sinning when He healed people on the Sabbath day.

I don't need to prove anything to you because the TRUTH proves itself and blind people still can't see it because they dont really want to know it anyway. They are so stuck in the rut of their own pet doctrines that they refuse to believe anything that might prove them wrong or set them free from the rut.

I hope you are comfortable in that rut of yours.

STICKS AND STONES, SKY.

I don't need to prove anything to you because the TRUTH proves itself and blind people still can't see it because they dont really want to know it anyway.

HOW CONVENIENT FOR YOU. LOL

They are so stuck in the rut of their own pet doctrines that they refuse to believe anything that might prove them wrong or set them free from the rut.

I hope you are comfortable in that rut of yours.

I AM COMFORTABLE IN THE KNOWLEDGE GIVEN ME BY THE LORD.

Your carnal minded wisdom is definately not of the Lord WOG. You have been deceived and you don't even know it and you refuse to even consider the idea that I am right and you are wrong because you are much to proud to admit you are making a mistake.

I was blind once but now I see because Jesus delivered me from the same deception that you are currently bound up in. I used to think like you but thank God He set me free from those deceptions. I have been where you are but you have not yet been where I am. I hope and pray that the Lord will open your blinded eyes and unstop your deaf ears so you can also be where I am and see and hear the Father in the same way I see and hear Him.

The TRUTH will set you free but only if you believe the TRUTH. The Truth will not set you free if you refuse to believe it and If you continue to reject it.

Don't be a deceived hypocrite WOG.

Deceived hypocriters see the Truth as a lie.

REPENT of your self deceptions and carnal mindedness.

BY YOUR WORDS YOU HAVE MADE YOURSELF KNOWN, SKY.

You do not believe my words. That is why you are blind to who I am.

I am the light of the World

I have the mind of Christ.

My words are not my own but His that sent me.

You do not believe my words.

I HAVE BELIEVED YOU HAVE SAID THEM IN EARNEST. THAT IS ENOUGH.

That is why you are blind to who I am.

I RECOGNIZE YOU.

I am the light of the World

YOU ARE IN DARKNESS.

I have the mind of Christ.

YOU HAVE PROVEN YOU DO NOT MANY TIMES.

My words are not my own but His that sent me.

I AGREE.

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BIBLICAL DISCUSSION AND DEBATE	[email protected]