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| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 1/18/2007 4:15 AM |
I found a very good thread, which we had some good discussions on a few years back. There is some really good stuff on this thread. It is late right now, and I am very tired, but I know if I leave this place, I probably will never find it again. So I am going to move some of that thread to this new one tonight. it is some good stuff on this subject of Adam being Satan. I may split this into two different threads, for it will be too long for any other discussions if I do not do that. Hope you all enjoy this:
| From: joie | Sent: 8/21/2003 11:23 PM | | Satan, devil, serpent, dragon, Lucifer, are neither one NAMES. That is true; they are all descriptions of the fallen Adam. Now when the Word said Satan was a murder and a liar from the 'BEGINNING', this word 'beginning' does NOT refer to the start up of eternity as most everyone thinks. I have already explained this when teaching on Jesus. It is saying this ONE was a murder and a liar from the time that he fell away from God and therefore HE THUS BECAME A SATAN, A DEVIL, A SERPENT ( which means a wicked man) and he was the dragon and Lucifer. He became Satan at the beginning of his rebellion; this is what is meant by a murder and liar from the beginning; from the beginning of his rebellion. These all ARE ADAM. There is no difference. Now you all who go read <DIR> elwin roach's </DIR>article on Lucifer can decide for yourselves who or what you wish to believe. But as for me, I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST. Jesus Christ said the Pharisees were that Generation of SERPENTS. Revelation says that the OLD SERPENT = (the one in the Garden of Eden) was the devil and satan. These are not proper names, they are DESCRIPTIONS of the fallen ADAM. Cain is where the murdering showed up at. The lying showed up in Adam as he lied to Eve about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is where he took up his carnal mind, the Satan spirit and where he rebelled willfully against God. So as I told you, God has shown me things some of these people did not see. GOD ALWAYS USES PRESENT DAY ALIVE PEOPLE TO CONTINUE HIS TRUTH OF COMING FORTH. All who refuse the alive vessels of today, will fall into darkness if they reject present day revelation; not revelation two years ago; not ten years ago; not 50 years ago; not with Moses. But with the chosen vessels of today, 8/21/2003. The true sheep of God will follow the true voice of Jesus today as he speaks through his body, the Sons of God who stay exactly with the WRITTEN WORD. Jesus said those religious hypocrites of his day were the Generation of SERPENTS, = decendants of nature of first-man ADAM. ALSO, HE SAID HOW CAN THEY ESCAPE THE DAMNATION OF HELL FIRE. So this statement alone, PROVES that all will never be saved!! Now just believe who you wish to, I can not make you believe truth. I can only tell it to you. But his I say to all of you, THE TRUE SONS OF GOD WILL NEVER TEACH ANYTHING CONTRARY TO WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. JESUS SAID MANY THERE BE WHO GO IN AT THAT WIDE GATE OF DESTRUCTION. Now this is saying more people will end up in hell than those who end up saved. I BELIEVE JESUS. No where did Jesus or Paul or Peter teach that all will end up saved. IT IS A LIE OF ADAM, SATAN, THE DEVIL HE IS STILL LYING TO PEOPLE TODAY. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/21/2003 11:36 PM | If the one spoken of in Isaiah 14:12 is not Satan, as the authorities agree, then we might ought to consider who it really is. In the context of this verse we can see the king of Babylon is the primary subject matter; however, the description given here can also help us to see there is another MAN involved in this mystery. That man, as I believe we will see, is ADAM! "HOW HAST THOU FALLEN FROM THE HEAVENS, O SHINING ONE, SON OF THE DAWN." (Isa. 14:12, Young's Literal Trans. Of The Bible). Before Jesus, there was never anyone or anything fitting the description of the SHINING ONE except ADAM. Nowhere in the scriptures do we read that Satan was anything but a murderer and a liar from the very beginning; but Adam, he has most assuredly been identified with light. We are told in Gen. 1:27 that he was created in the image of God and after His likeness, and let us be reminded, one of those things God is like is LIGHT -- GOD IS LIGHT (I Jn. 1:5), and also, GOD IS THE FATHER OF LIGHTS (Jms. 1:17). (taken from their article)
See here is how people miss truth, they assume they know what it is saying, when in actuality they do not! They said, "nowhere do we read that Satan was anything but a murderer and a liar from the very beginning." See, this did not say from the day Adam was created; or the day Satan was created. it is saying he was a murderer and a liar from the beginning of his rebellion against God. He was NOT A SATAN before this. He was the Son of God. But then, after he rebelled (and who can deny that Adam rebelled against God? Anyone? Huh?)--- see then that, when he rebelled, BE BECAME SATAN. THIS IS HIS BEGINNING AS SATAN. HE WAS NOT SATAN BEFORE HIS REBELLION. THERE WAS NO SATAN BEFORE HIS REBELLION. So Satan was a murderer and a liar from the BEGINNING OF HIS BEING SATAN. This is the very way all of the lies got their start. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/21/2003 11:44 PM | | Romans 5: 12--Wherefore, as by ONE MAN sin entered into the world, and DEATH by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. 14--Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the SIMILITUDE OF ADAM'S TRANSGRESSION...... Now this clearly puts the blame for sin and death in this world on ADAM. It did not say by any satan, dragon, serpent, or anything else ..... it plainly named him.....ADAM. So if satan was the one who first sinned, who first murdered, who first lied, who brought sin into this world and death by this sin....... why did not Paul say so? If Satan is NOT ADAM then PAUL LIED HERE WHEN HE SAID ADAM BROUGHT SIN INTO THIS WORLD. See, how easy it is to disprove lies with the pure WRITTEN WORD. This is another proof; yes I said PROOF THAT ADAM IS SATAN, THE FIRST SINNER. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/26/2003 10:00 PM | | You see, brethren, it was man who desired to be God not Satan. Although he was in the image (phantom, Heb.) and likeness (model, Heb.), he was not God but desired to be such. One the other hand, Satan's desire was to do what he was created to do, to be a liar and to murder, and he very effectively exercised both; for the woman believed the lie and after she and her husband ate, they died that day -- murdered at the subtle hand of Satan who was a murderer from his beginning.(taken from the message Hoss gave us a link to)
I am still trying to get this article read all the way through. I have not finished it yet. But I will eventually. Now as I read I came across the part above here. I challenge anyone here or there (if the writters of that article are present day people, still alive, and you know how to contact them, I ask any of you to get them to come here and read this) I ask them or anyone else who believes their lies to show me one verse of Scripture which says this: God CREATED SATAN TO BE A LIAR, AND A MURDER. I say without reservation that this is an outright LIE AGAINST GOD ALMIGHTY. I say God has never created a being, spirit or man, to BE A LIAR AND A MURDER!! I affirm this. I say this article is a lie all the way through. It is not true to the word of God. This show show men can sway others with their , yes THEIR words. No Scritpure proves Satan is not Adam.
[The serpent was created from its beginning a subtle beast of the field (earth), (this is also taken from their message)]
Now the word does NOT say the serpent was a beast of the field. This kind of thinking comes from not reading the Word ACCURATELY. Let's see what the Word REALLY says about the serpent: Genesis 3 1. Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Now people, read that correctly: 'the serpent was MORE SUBTIL THAN ANY BEAST OF THE FIELD" MORE---- SUBTIL....THAN... ANY...BEAST OF THE FIELD. Does that sound as if the serpent was one of the beast of the field? No, no. Of course it does NOT! It said he was MORE subtil than ANY beast of the field. Thus he is not linked with the beast of the field as being ON OF THEM. If it were that he were one of the beast of the field, then it would have had to say, the serpent was the most subtil beast of the field. But it did not say that. It said he was MORE subtil than ANY of them....... clearly showing that he WAS NOT ONE OF THEM. I will do more on this later. But study the Word. Make up your mind-- who are you gonna believe ... those who only say high sounding words or their own minds...... or exactly what the Word of God actually does say. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/26/2003 11:59 PM | | man is the fallen one, not Satan. The serpent was created from its beginning a subtle beast of the field (earth), while Adam, until he sinned, was a creature of the garden (the heavens). However, after 6,000 or so years he has grown wings of a dragon and made his way to the lofty heights of the air of man's mind. And it is not until the man child of Revelation 12 is caught up to God and His throne do we see Satan being cast out of heaven. (taken from the message on Lucifer)
Now they said, "the serpent was created from its beginning a subtle beast of the field......." a beast? you mean an animal? Well, let's see what the Word of God says about the serpent: Rev. 12: 9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (see here, satan was cast out). Now this verse CLEARLY identifies the dragon (which they said was the man( as being 'that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and SATAN. This says that old SERPENT IS SATAN. HE IS THE DEVIL; HE IS THE DRAGON. SEE then that they are all one and the same being: the serpent, the dragon, the devil, and satan. If this is a beast of the field, then Satan is a beast of the field. Yet they claim Satan is a spirit. Is a spirit a beast of the field? Do you really think they have the right answers? I sure do not see truth laid out here. And there is much more confusion and discrepencies in the article. More than I will be able to bring out.
(I beheld Satan as lightning falling from heaven) would seem to give credit to the traditional thought; However, if we take it in the context of what had just happened, we will see something else. The falling had actually taken place at the time the seventy were sent by Jesus, when they had cast Satan out of the heavenly dominion he had over the people who were sick and demon possessed. It was at that time He had seen him falling from heaven rather than thousands of years in the past. (taken from their message)
Now read this carefully: they are saying that Satan fell from heaven when the seventy went out and healed the sick. Yet they had just said it was not Satan who fell, but the man. which is it? But notice this: (man is the fallen one, not Satan....... taken from their message) Man is the fallen one, not Satan. yet they are discussing above when Satan fell. and they will tell you another time Satan fell. watch this: (The serpent was created from its beginning a subtle beast of the field (earth), while Adam, until he sinned, was a creature of the garden (the heavens). However, after 6,000 or so years he has grown wings of a dragon and made his way to the lofty heights of the air of man's mind. And it is not until the man child of Revelation 12 is caught up to God and His throne do we see Satan being cast out of heaven. ....... taken from their message) See they say the serpent is a beast. then they say Adam was a creature of the garden, and after 6,000 years he (man) has grown wings of a dragon and made his way to the air of man's mind. Man with the 'wings(HUH?) of a dragon.... but look at this: it is not until the man child of Rev. 12 is caught up to God that we see Satan being cast out of heaven.... so here they say one time for the fall of Satan, and above they said it was when the 70 went out from Jesus and healed the sick. ...... so which is it? Or did the man child be caught up to God at the time the 70 healed those sick? go figure!! and besides this, they already said it was NOT SATAN WHO FELL, BUT THE MAN. Now they are giving two different times Satan FELL; YET HE IS NOT THE FALLEN ONE. My, My. | |
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P.S. This one is so good, I really thought to start a new thread with this. But do not want anyone who might read this to miss this connection with the rest of this thread. All of this came from a message which a past member, Hoss, gave us a link to. I did not post that, but may go back and get it, so you all may read where this came from, that is if it still exists. This was four year ago, so it may not exist now. I was afraid that if I clicked on it, I might lose this page. I would never find it again. So now, read this and see that this person, trying to disprove that adam was Satan, ended up proving it himself:
| From: joie | Sent: 8/27/2003 1:06 AM | | THE CHARACTERISTICS OF "LUCIFER," as mentioned in Isaiah 14, are consistently identifying carnal man rather than the devil who is a spirit (taken from their message)
See here they say that the devil is a spirit. Rev. 12 said the old serpent is the devil. But they said the serpent is a beast of the field who deceived Eve and murdered Eve and Adam. Now is this beast of the field this spirit? And if they mean the serpent is an animal, how did this animal deceive Eve and murder her? We believe the cherub speaks much more of a quality in man rather than that of it being a spirit entity outside of him. I must confess, we do not have all the answers to the mystery of the cherubim (plural for cherub, of rmore, see Secrets of the Cherubim series); but I am confident in what we do know -- that Satan has never been one. Remember? Jesus said he was "A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING." (Jn. 8:44). -- Not a cherub, but a M-U-R-D-E-R-E-R! ( from their message....) Here they are saying that the cherub is man..... now watch this: The first time cherubim are mentioned is in Genesis 3:24: "So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubim to KEEP the way of the tree of life."(from their message) Now they are saying God drove out the man, and placed the cherubim there to keep the way of the tree of life. So if the man was the cherub, and God drove him out, how is it that God places a cherubim there ? Did he place the man back there? The way back to the heart center of the garden of God (the tree of life/the ark of the covenant) was very well protected from fallen man. (their message) So now they are saying fallen man is blocked from the tree of life, by what? the cherub, which they said was man.??? Everything we read and know about the cherubim speaks of something in man himself that keeps him from the pleasures of God until his journey is found in and through Jesus Christ (their message) So now everything about the cherubim is something in man keeping him from God; yet God placed this there to keep the way of the tree of life? Make any sense to any of you? It sure does not to me. However, when he was no longer worthy to rule, after he had placed himself under the ruling influence of the beast of the field, his dominion in the holy Kingdom of God (their message) Now this said Adam ruled God's kingdom until he placed himself under the ruling influence of the BEAST OF THE FIELD... What???? ruling ....RULING influence of a beast...... what beast? Some animal? what? the SERPENT, WHICH IS CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AS SATAN. At one time the king/Adam had everything as he ruled among the stones of fire, but because of submitting to the temptation of I WILL BECOME, without it becoming through God, he lost it all and became a lowly creature of sweat and tears. (their message) Now they are getting somewhere! they said at one time Adam was a high up creature; BUT when he submitted to temptation of I WILL BECOME, he lost it all and BECAME ----YES BECAME a lowly creature..... here is how and why Adam BECAME SATAN. See what they and all of you are missing, is that SATAN DID NOT EXIST UNTIL ADAM SINNED. THIS CARNAL MIND IN ADAM IS SATAN. THE CARNAL MIND IN YOU IS SATAN. MAY AS WELL ADMIT IT, FOLKS. While Adam was perfect, true to God, sure, Satan was not in existence. Sure Satan was a liar from the beginning of HIS existence.... that is what made Adam Satan, becoming a liar and a murder. Here is goes to Cain., they are both Satan; so is every other sinner). There is no way around it. They have led themselves right into this truth without being able to see it. "THOU WAST PERFECT IN THY WAYS FROM THE DAY THAT THOU WAST CREATED, TILL INIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE." (Verse 15). Yes, indeed, Adam was perfect in all facets of his life, until he was found to be cunning like the serpent who had beguiled the woman. (their message) This is profound to me! Here they finally come to see that ADAM IS THE CUNNING ONE. THEY SEE THAT ADAM IS CUNNING LIKE THE SERPENT. Then why not go ahead and SEE THAT ADAM WAS AND IS THE SERPENT?? Yes, Adam is the serpent, which is Satan, the devil. Can't you all see how they have come right to this same conclusion, without being able to see it? It is crystal clear. They now are saying Adam was cunning like the Serpent. Sure he was!!! He is the serpent. That which we see as never being after the fire has been applied is the flammable carnal, rebellious nature of man, even the desire, the avenue to sin will have been removed and destroyed to never rise again (their message) This is clearly saying that the carnal nature of man is what is to be destroyed, which they said is Satan. So they also came to the conclusion that the rebellious nature of man is what is Satan, without even seeing it themselves! The only war Satan has ever had is going on right now in the very midst of the heavenly realm of the lives and minds of men (their message) The only way of Satan is in the minds of men. Well said. Amen to that one. But of course they did not mean what it sounds like. But see, Satan is the mind of rebellious man. Now the conclusion of all this is.... They are missing the very thing they themselves are seeing..... because they still are under the influence of the false teaching that Satan is a spirit; a separate being apart from man. They came right up to the truth and let this lie blind them. They brought forth one word of Scripture to show that Satan is not man. Not one word to show what Satan acturally is or where he came from. They denied what the Scritpure plainly said, that the old Serpent is Satan. For here again they believe the lies of man, that the serpent is an animal, a beast of the field. If this be so, how was this beast with Adam and Eve in the garden? How did a beast tempt them to sin? It is just not true or sensible. It is very true that Satan was never a shinning light; or a son of the morning. That was Adam. But when Satan came into being, or existance, is when Adam rebelled and became carnal. This carnal, rebellious mind is Satan. So it is true that Satan was never a ruler or God; nor was he the beautiful cherub. Adam was. But that was BEFORE ADAM FELL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECAME THE WICKED ONE. I don't see how anyone could fail to see this. This whole message they wrote was set to prove Adam was not Satan. But they ended up proving that he is indeed Satan and did not even see it themselves. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/27/2003 1:31 AM | | Well it is very late and I need to get to bed.......but I want to finish dealing with this message tonight. I said they brought forth one word to prove this.......but I meant NOT ONE WORD. Just typed it wrong. I am tired. But I want to point out one more thing, which I already mentioned......but I want to emphasize it....... they said Adam came under the RULING INFLUENCE OF THE BEAST....... What was the BEAST ruling? How was he a ruler? How did he get influence over the Son of God? How in this world was a BEAST ruling anything? Did God set this BEAST to rule? Rule what? They had already said Adam was the ruler,,,,,,,,,,but then they turn around and say Adam fell under the RULING influence of the beast of the field...... so I ask how and why would a mere beast of the field be ruling. and they said Adam was ruling.......so who was ruling......Adam or this beast? When they find the real truth, all these discrepencies will disappear. Jo. | |
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