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Wow! This Ellen White thought she was God. No wonder people follow her.

Seventh-Day Adventism

Orthodox or Cult?*

Seventh-Day Adventism (SDA) arose from the aftermath of the Adventist movement of the mid-1800s. "Seventh-day" refers to the focus on sabbath, or Saturday worship. "Adventist" refers to the SDA belief that they are the fulfillment of prophecies pertaining to the latter days remnant and the coming of Christ. The world was predicted to end in 1844 with the Second Coming of Christ, by William Miller, a New England Baptist itinerant preacher. Miller's followers condemned all the churches of the day as apostate and "Babylon," and warned Christians to come out of them. A great many did, and the "adventist" movement was born and grew rapidly (Melton, J. Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, Vol. 2, pp. 21�?2).

Christ did not appear in 1844. After this "Great Disappointment," one "little flock" still insisted the date of their original predictions had been correct. They decided the event marked by 1844 was not the Second Coming, but the entrance of Christ into the Holy of Holies in the Heavenly Sanctuary. There, they said, He began the "Investigative Judgment." (See #6 below.) This doctrine was received and endorsed by Ellen G. White (Ibid., p. 680).

From 1844 to 1851, the group taught the "shut door" doctrine, based on Jesus' parable of the ten virgins. Anyone who had not accepted the Adventist message by the time Jesus entered the Holy of Holies was to be shut out permanently, as were the five foolish virgins. Cut off from the Bridegroom, they could not join the Adventists or have any hope of eternal life. Ellen White not only approved and taught this doctrine, but her first vision experience (she claimed over 2,000 visions) was largely responsible for its being received by the Adventist group (Brinsmead, Robert, D., Judged by the Gospel: A Review of Adventism, pp. 130�?33).

By 1846, the group had adopted the Seventh-Day Baptists' view that the Saturday Sabbath must be observed by Christians. A highly elevated form of this doctrine, together with the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, became the hallmarks of Seventh-Day Adventism. In 1850, James and Ellen White began publishing a magazine, The Review & Herald, to disseminate Adventist and Sabbatarian doctrines. This helped many of the remaining "Millerites" to coalesce into a distinctive body, which adopted the name of Seventh-Day Adventist Church in 1860, and formally incorporated in 1863, with approximately 3,500 members in 125 congregations (Encyclopedia of American Religion, Vol. 2, p. 681).

Ellen G. White (1827-1915) never held official title as the head of the SDA church, but was one of its founders and acknowledged spiritual leader. She rather disingenuously declined to claim the title of "prophet," calling herself a "messenger" instead (P.G. Damsteegt, et al., Seventh-day Adventists Believe �?A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988, p. 224). But she claimed to have the "spirit of prophecy," and that her messages were direct from God for the guidance and instruction of the church. With her knowledge and consent, others called her a prophet and an inspired commentator of Scripture1, and even "the Spirit of Prophecy" (Maurice Barnett, Ellen G. White & Inspiration, pp. 5�?7). Having only a third grade education, Ellen White said for years she was unable to read, bolstering the claim that her beautiful prose was inspired by God. However, it has been discovered that she not only read, but plagiarized other Christian authors throughout virtually all her writings. The sad facts of this matter have been thoroughly and indisputably established in several books. (e.g., see Walter Rea, The White Lie; and Judged by the Gospel, pp. 361�?83).

As of year-end 1999, the SDA church claimed more than 10.9 million members worldwide in 46,700 churches; there are more than 900,000 Adventists in the U.S. and Canada (making the SDA one of the fastest growing "churches" in the world -- membership up over 10% in 1999). While headquartered in Washington, D.C., SDA employment worldwide totals nearly 166,000, not including 13,815 ordained ministers. (Contributions in 1999 totaled $1.6 billion.) SDAs claim to be working in 725 languages and over 1,000 dialects. They have a large investment in publishing and education -- they operate 56 publishing houses and support 549 medical units (696 including 117 nursing homes and retirement centers and 30 orphanages); and 5,846 primary and secondary schools, colleges, and universities (with total enrollment of over a million students). They also broadcast over Adventist World Radio more than 1,000 hours per week of programming in more than 40 languages from 18 transmitters in seven international locations, and have almost 13 million students enrolled in its more than 110,000 "Sabbath Schools" (11/2001, SDA Internet web site). (The SDA church also publishes two of their own Bible "translations": The Study Bible and The Clear Word Bible.)

SDA is organized as a representative democracy. Lower echelons elect representatives to higher units; determination and administration of policy and enforcement of doctrinal orthodoxy is imposed from the top down. President and Executive Committee of General Conference are standing chief administrative offices. Lower administrative units are the General Conference, Divisions (over continents), Union Conferences, local Conferences, and congregations.

In the late 1950s, cult expert Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute, in collaboration with neo-evangelical Donald Barnhouse, made an extensive investigation of the teachings (doctrines) of Seventh-Day Adventism. Their purpose was to determine whether to classify SDA as part of the evangelical community, or to go along with the majority of evangelicals and treat SDAs as cult members (thereby requiring evangelicals to exercise Biblical separation). (In the 1955 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults, Martin originally did classify SDA as cultic.) Martin and Barnhouse concluded that SDA was within the bounds of Christian orthodoxy. Walter Martin, in his article in the 12/19/60 Christianity Today, said: "That Adventists should be recognized as Christians and that fellowship should be extended to them we do not deny" (p. 15).

Among those adamantly opposing that conclusion was Biblical scholar Dr. John Whitcomb, Jr., then of Grace Theological Seminary. Detailed below is Whitcomb's reasoning* for his classification of SDA as a [anti-assurance, Sabbath-keeping, Law-enslaving] cult:2

1. Source of Authority. Ellen G. White claimed to be, "a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light." The official SDA Questions on Doctrine (Q.D.) states that, "the Holy Spirit opened to her mind important events and called her to give certain instructions for these last days, and inasmuch as these instructions, in our understanding, are in harmony with the Word of God, which Word alone is able to make us wise unto salvation, we as a denomination accept them as inspired counsels from the Lord" (Q.D., p. 93). (Emphasis added.) Mrs. White claimed to have received more than 3,000 "inspired counsels from the Lord" (i.e., visions) between 1844 and 1868. (From these "visions," she produced over 100,000 handwritten manuscript pages from which were published 54 books!) Therefore, SDAs have a new source of authority in their lives -- according to SDA's dogma, if an SDA does not accept Mrs. White as infallible, they have no salvation!

2. Mankind. Seventh-Day Adventists do not believe that the whole man or any part of him is inherently "immortal" (Q.D., p. 518). SDAs believe in "soul sleep" for the saved (i.e., no conscious existence from the time of death until the resurrection), and annihilation for the wicked (i.e., the body and soul are destroyed at death rather than experiencing everlasting torment). How, then, can one get to heaven?: SDAs believe that one can have immortality only on the condition that he comes to Christ through Ellen G. White; i.e., a works program, following salvation by grace with light of revelation through Ellen G. White as the infallible guide to Holy Scripture, apart from which one cannot have immortality.3 Then, at resurrection day, the body will be re-created (necessary because of soul sleep) for all those who believe in White's guidance and teachings (while non-SDAs will remain in "soul sleep" forever; i.e., will cease to exist [annihilated] and will not suffer everlasting torment).

3. Christ. Mrs. White: "Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature ... Christ took human nature and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race. He took our nature and its deteriorating condition" (Q.D., pp. 654-656) (cf. Jn. 14:30). According to SDA, then, Christ acquired a sinful nature! Of course, if this could have been so, there could have been no sinless sacrifice, no hope for sinners, and no Savior.

4. Atonement. "Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ" (E.G. White, The Great Controversy [TGC], 1911, p. 623; TGC has since been retitled and published as America in Prophecy, 1988). SDA teaches that, though saved by grace, we are kept by the Law (i.e., "partial atonement"). Therefore, one must keep Old Testament dietary and ceremonial laws, paying particular attention to keep the Saturday Sabbath and the Ten Commandments, and most importantly, making sure to faithfully pay the tithe.

Even when speaking of being saved by the righteousness of Christ, Adventist writers refer to imparted righteousness, seldom to the Biblical concept of imputed righteousness. Calling it "Christ's righteousness," while insisting on the believer's perfection of character as a prerequisite to salvation, is at worst a thinly veiled works salvation, or at best an attempt to mix grace and works, something the Bible says is impossible to do (Rom. 11:6). Mrs. White's words are crystal clear -- one will not be forgiven until all sins are eradicated from one's life and one's character is perfected. Precisely the same heresy is found (besides many others) in Mormonism. It is not the salvation by grace alone through faith alone offered in the Bible.

5. Baptism. "�?Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of His church, His spiritual kingdom"; "In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord"; "�?[B]aptism also marks [a] person's entrance into Christ's spiritual kingdom. �?it unites the new believer to Christ.�?Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers -- His body, the church.�?Then they are members of God's family" (SDAs Believe �? pp. 182, 184, 187).

6. The Investigative Judgment. According to SDA theology, beginning on October 22, 1844, Christ entered upon the "judgment phase" of His ministry, whereby He blots out sin: [The SDA doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" rests on Ellen G. White's claimed revelation that Christ entered the heavenly Holy of Holies, not at His ascension, but in 1844, wherein He then began to investigate the records of human works (TGC, pp. 362-373) (cf. Heb. 9).] "When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty" (TGC, p. 422). Satan, thereby, becomes the scapegoat of Leviticus 16. This lack of clear distinction between the forgiveness of sins and the blotting out of sins, makes it impossible for anyone to know, even in the hour of his death, whether he is saved or not. (SDAs are not "allowed" to experience assurance of salvation, because then there would be no pressure on them to keep the Old Testament law, as interpreted by Ellen G. White, and especially no pressure to pay the tithe.) Moreover, the concept that the sins of all men are to be laid on Satan, assigns to Satan an indispensable role in the blotting out of sin, thus nullifying the all-sufficiency of the finished work of Christ. [When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished," i.e. completed, paid in full, it cannot be that there is yet another salvation event more than 1,800 years later, just as essential to salvation as Christ's death on the cross, in which one must believe in order to be saved. This is clearly "another gospel" (Gal. 1:6�?).]4

The "Investigative Judgment" and the "Scapegoat Theory of the Atonement" are, by themselves, so non-Biblical as to contradict Galatians 1:8-9. It is "another gospel," about which the Apostle Paul wrote, "let such be anathema" (i.e., cursed/condemned). Yet according to Ellen White, one must believe this doctrine to be saved:

"Those who would share the benefits of the Savior's mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God �?The subject of the sanctuary and the Investigative Judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position [in the Holy of Holies] and work [Investigative Judgment] of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs for them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God �?All who have received the light on these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men �?It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects �?The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon a cross. By His death He began that work which after his resurrection He ascended to complete in Heaven" (TGC, pp. 488�?9; emphasis added).

7. The Sabbath. "In the last days, the Sabbath test will be made plain. When this time comes, anyone who does not keep the Sabbath will receive the mark of the beast and will be kept from heaven" (TGC, p. 449); "�?[T]he divine institution of the Sabbath is to be restored �?The delivering of this message will precipitate a conflict that will involve the whole world. The central issue will be obedience to God's law and the observance of the Sabbath. �?Those who reject it will eventually receive the mark of the beast" (TGC, pp. 262�?3). In one of her most revered works, Ellen White wrote that Sabbath observance would be the "line of distinction" in the "final test" that will separate God's end-time people who "receive the seal of God" and are saved, from those who "receive the mark of the beast" (The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan, p. 605). Describing a supposed vision direct from God, Ellen White wrote, "I saw that the Holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers" (Early Writings, p. 33; emphasis added). She also wrote of some Adventists failing to understand that "Sabbath �?observance was of sufficient importance to draw a line between the people of God and unbelievers" (Ibid., p. 85).

SDAs have, thereby, made Sabbath-keeping a criterion for a personal relationship with the Lord -- even to the extent of one's salvation! Why? Because, according to SDAs, we are all to be under strict adherence to Old Testament Law, including the Ten Commandments, of which the fourth one says, "keep the Sabbath." (This Sabbath-keeping requirement was supposedly confirmed in a vision received by Ellen G. White, rather than by study of the Bible.) SDAs believe that "Sunday-keeping" will be the mark of the beast in the future.

8. Ellen G. White, the Prophet. Many rank-and-file SDA members deny that their organization any longer decrees Ellen G. White a God-inspired prophet. Yet in SDA official publications, the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White legends, and maintain there was no difference in the degree of inspiration she received from that received by Bible writers (Review & Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11; "Source of Final Appeal," Adventist Review, 3 June 1971, pp. 4�?; G. A. Irwin, Mark of the Beast, p. 1; "The Inspiration and Authority of the Ellen G. White Writings," Adventist Review, 15 July 1982, p. 3; Ministry, October 1981, p. 8 (5); see also, Judged by the Gospel, pp. 125�?30). And in the SDA June 2000, General Conference, the church voted to more aggressively affirm and support the "Spirit of Prophecy through the ministry of Ellen White" (Adventist Today, [online: July 2000]).

* Besides relying heavily on the work of Dr. Whitcomb (1988 Syllabus notes), some of the material in this report has also been excerpted and or adapted from: "Seventh-day Adventist Church Profile," Timothy Oliver (Watchman Fellowship Profile, 1996).

Endnotes

1 The Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don't come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God's Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies, which, if pointed out, offer an effective way to open blind eyes and rescue cultists. SDA originated with similar false prophesies about Christ's coming. It began with William Miller's prediction that Christ would return in 1843 (revised to October 22, 1844). Miller admitted his error. However, SDA prophetess Ellen G. White (EGW), who had repeatedly endorsed Miller's prophecy, insisted that Christ had indeed come, but not to earth. Instead, He had entered "the holy of holies" in heaven "to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits" (The Great Controversy, p. 480).

Number 17 of the "Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-Day Adventists" states: "The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction." Yet EGW made numerous false prophecies: that "Old Jerusalem never would be built up" (Early Writings, p. 75), that she would be alive at the Rapture (Early Writings, pp. 15-16), that Christ would return before slavery was abolished (Early Writings, pp. 35, 276), that Adventists living in 1856 would be alive at the Rapture (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 131-132), and many more. Nevertheless, SDAs revere this false prophet's writings as if they were Scripture. [Return to Text]

2 Nevertheless, SDAs are continuing their efforts to be identified as "evangelical Christians." As an illustration of this effort, SDAs were very prominent at the annual meetings of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS) held in San Francisco, November 19-21, 1992. They presented themselves in the printed program as the Adventist Theological Society (ATS). During the meetings, they conducted at least eight workshops/seminars open to all the members of the ETS, as well as a general meeting of their own ATS on Saturday morning, November 21st. Likewise, at the 1/97 National Religious Broadcasters Convention, the SDA's "Voice of Prophecy" booth provided books and tapes of their programs, but there was no indication that this was an SDA organization. Christians need to be aware that cult groups like SDA often use the same Christian-sounding terminology, but the meanings of the words have been redefined. [Return to Text]

3 Many quotes could be given to prove that EGW taught salvation by works. Here are a few:

(a) "Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny ... though ... forgotten by us, they [our works] will bear their testimony to justify or condemn" (TGC, pp. 486-490).

(b) "When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life ..." (TGC, p. 483).

(c) "Each one of you needs to ... [be] working with your might to redeem the failures of your past life. God has placed you in a world of suffering to prove you, to see if you will be found worthy of the gift of eternal life" (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, p. 530). [Return to Text]

4 This teaching of the "Investigative Judgment" is the foundational doctrine and major heresy of Seventh-Day Adventism: that the atonement was not complete on the cross, but was begun in heaven in 1844 and depends upon our works. According to Ellen G. White (EGW), the blood of Christ, instead of making "an atonement for the soul" (Lv. 17:11) and "cleans[ing] us from all sin" (l Jn. 1:7), brought sin into heaven: "[O]ur sins are, in fact, transferred to the heavenly sanctuary by the blood of Christ" (Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 266). Thus, Christ had to begin the work of cleansing the heavenly sanctuary (of sins His blood had brought there!) through the "Investigative Judgment." EGW declared that "Ministers who would not accept this saving message" were hindering God's work and "The blood of souls is upon them" (Early Writings, p. 234). Millerites who adopted this delusion became Seventh-Day Adventists. The whole concept of the Investigative Judgment is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus did not wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of Holies in heaven (Heb. 1:3; 6:19�?0; 8:1; 9:6�?2, 24; 12:2). Neither is He still making an atonement in heaven (Heb. 9:25�?6; 10:11�?4). The Investigative Judgment proposes to "vindicate the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus," by showing they were "loyal," "penitent," and "faithful" commandment keepers. This is an outrage. God's justice in saving sinners is vindicated by Christ's death on the cross, period (Rom. 3:24�?6). [Return to Text]

5 The SDA Church made this statement in their Ministry magazine of October 1981, and have never retracted it -- "We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other" (June 1997, The Baptist Challenge). (Bold added.) This sounds like SDAs also believe that Mrs. White is inerrant. [Return to Text]

opps, meant >>satan being an angel, not anger.

He (Adam) was suppose to keep the garden and protect it. Would that not include Eve also? Was he not suppose to protect Eve? Tweety

wHO told you Adam was to protect Eve? Was Adam the help meet? Have you ever one time searched out what help meet means? If not, go study my messages on Adam and Eve and the Help Meet.

The answer ... A BIG NO!!! She was the protector.

4 This teaching of the "Investigative Judgment" is the foundational doctrine and major heresy of Seventh-Day Adventism: that the atonement was not complete on the cross,

So right here it proves without a shadow of a doubt that the SDA church does not believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. So they do not believe the Bible. They do not believe GOD's WORD at all.

but was begun in heaven in 1844 and depends upon our works.

The believe labor will lead you to salvation. What about this verse? I guess ELLEN never read it.

Psalms 53:3 (KJV)
^53:3Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Isaiah 64:6 (KJV)
^64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

According to Ellen G. White (EGW), the blood of Christ, instead of making "an atonement for the soul" (Lv. 17:11) and "cleans[ing] us from all sin" (l Jn. 1:7), brought sin into heaven: "[O]ur sins are, in fact, transferred to the heavenly sanctuary by the blood of Christ" (Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 266).

Now this women is under the complete spell of Satan. Doubting GOD's WORD. Slandering what JESUS DID. ONLY SATAN WILL DO THIS. SHE WAS UNDER SATAN'S SPELL.

Thus, Christ had to begin the work of cleansing the heavenly sanctuary (of sins His blood had brought there!) through the "Investigative Judgment."

So according to this Satan Follower HEAVEN IS OVERFLOWING WITH THE BLOOD OF SINNERS. SHE MAKES HEAVEN LOOK LIKE HELL. THAT IS WHAT SATAN WOULD DO.

EGW declared that "Ministers who would not accept this saving message" were hindering God's work and "The blood of souls is upon them" (Early Writings, p. 234).

She so judges minsiters like GOD now? ONLY GOD HIMSELF can make such judgements against people. Like I said before, she truly thought she was GOD HIMSELF.

Millerites who adopted this delusion became Seventh-Day Adventists.

And the Millerites will be in HELL with the Seventh-Day Adventists people. What a shock they will recieve, when they face their god. Satan.

The whole concept of the Investigative Judgment is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus did not wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of Holies in heaven (Heb. 1:3; 6:19�?0; 8:1; 9:6�?2, 24; 12:2). Neither is He still making an atonement in heaven (Heb. 9:25�?6; 10:11�?4). The Investigative Judgment proposes to "vindicate the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus," by showing they were "loyal," "penitent," and "faithful" commandment keepers. This is an outrage. God's justice in saving sinners is vindicated by Christ's death on the cross, period (Rom. 3:24�?6).

He truly needs JESUS!!!! I do not usually post what Beffers says. But it seems when you attack ELLEN WHITE. YOU ATTACK HIS SOUL. And He complains about DAKE? PLEASE! Dake make Ellen WHITE LOOK LIKE THE DEVIL SHE TRULY IS. TWEETY

From: Beffers in response to Message 92

Sent: 6/15/2008 1:00 AM

Good! I'm glad to see you abandoned your foolish attempt in #84 to show E.G. White was of the devil. Explanation given! No response. Good girl. Now let's move on.

Say you don't follow her teachings? This is where you got that Sabbath stuff from.

I see you can't handle the law/Sabbath issue so you must persue this venture. I was told you were all talk but I didn't believe it. Well........This one statement above shows your lack of knowledge of the facts. I left the Catholic church in the late seventies and learned about the Sabbath long before becoming an Adventist in 1984. Becoming an Adventist was the fruit of my search for a Sabbath keeping church with whom I could fellowship with. So your statement is judgmental and downright idiotic. You shouldn't put your foot in your mouth so often. You'll develop athlete's tongue.

Her twisted mind. Her followers think she was a prophet. NOthing she ever said came to pass.

Name one prophecy she made that never took place.

This statement was from your founder ELLEN G. WHITE.

You aren't to well informed on the facts are you? This is what happens when you parrot others and don't do your own research. There are actually three who are considered the founders: Joseph Bates, James White, and Ellen White. Sometimes Hiram Edson and perhaps others are added to the list.

48. CAN SATAN ANSWER PRAYERS DIRECTED TO GOD? EGW: YES "Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them (Christians) look up to the throne, and pray, 'Father, give us Thy Spirit.' Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence ..." (Early Writings, p. 56).

ROTFLMBO!!! This quote doesn't even have anything to do with prayer. It was part of a vision she had about the end of the 2300 day prophecy found in Daniel. I know of no church that teaches that Satan answers prayer. Not even the most hardened anti-SDA's believe we teach this. But you Tweety? Too funny!!!

That is why I always say READ THE WORD AND STUDY FOR YOURSELF. Tweety

Imagine, this is coming from someone who doesn't even practice what she preaches. Based on what you've written so far I doubt anyone believes you. I know I don't!!

AND HE THOUGHT I WAS NOT GOING TO RESPOND? TWEETY

ROTFLMBO!!! This is the usual tactic of a person who cannot refute that which is presented against their beliefs.

You laugh at someone that believes only in the WORD of GOD? Nothing that you have presented will persuade me to stop following the true teachings of GOD, which are located in the KJV. I would highly suggest that you rethink your position, on who and what you follow. Do you follow GOD or a women that clearly was following Satan himself, and not GOD? Satan felt he was above GOD too. That is why he rebelled against HIM. And I see Ellen WHITE rebelling against HIM too, with her many so called prophecies that never came true. Everything she has written, is a complete opposite from what the Bible teaches. Maybe you should read the Bible, and learn the truth, instead of clinging to false beliefs. That is the tell-tale sign of a person that has not or will not follow the truth of GOD. So she and all of her followers are of the DEVIL. And I guess you would claim that you do not believe in what this Devil follower has said, be very careful with your response...Because, if you do not believe in all that she wrote, then you are against your own churches beliefs. So I would assume that since, you are still a member there, because you adhere to the Sabbath teachings of ELLEN WHITE, you believe in all of what she says. That is the churches statement: They have added ELLEN WHITE writings to their gospel and adhere to it. So if the doctrine of ELLEN WHITE and other founding members are following the Devil and his WORD. Then your church is of the DEVIL. And all of its followers. As you can see, I call it like I see it. You yourself knows how the devil and his followers operate. He is the Father of all lies. And clearly, he greatly influenced your founding members. And I quite sure that they are not in the grave soul sleeping, (because that lie is not taught in scripture) But reside in hell fully aware of everything around them, which is eternal torment unto their souls for the lies they had spread across this earth to deceive many that search for the truth of GOD.

Either change the subject or attack the messenger.

You are a messenger of ELLEN WHITE AND HER TEACHINGS. NOT God's! So, YES! I will attack the messenger and the message that the messenger brings. No wonder you fear Freeborn. She knows that you are not of GOD. And you follow another Jesus. So I now see, why she has fought against you so hard. And she will and can continue to battle with you and your false beliefs that are not of GOD. I would rather be with her and find the TRUTH IN God's WORD, than follow someone that follows a so-called religion that teaches lies and false beliefs. Your soul will go to hell, for believing the lies and twisted truths of the women that calls herself ELLEN WHITE. For she is there, I can guarantee that. No person such as the puke she wrote is of GOD. She never studied the WORD of GOD, it is clearly evident in her deranged writings. She had to either be under the influence of very potent illegal drugs, when she was prophesying, or she was shown visions by the DEVIL himself. And if you compare what she wrote with TRUE scripture, then you will see that this women was clearly under the Devil's influence all throughout her life.

Oh Tweety are you that disgruntle that you must resort to this childish maneuver?

So you think it is childish that I rebuke your religion? Which is clearly from Satan himself and not of GOD? I would expect that from someone that follows lies and twisted truths of the three blind mice's.

But, just to show you I'm not totally impervious to your oversensitive and desperate plight,

The only one that seems to be desperate is you, on trying to convince me that your religion is of GOD. And I can see that it is of Satan. So you are the one desperate, as you cling to the teachings of the She-Devil. Hoping that you will see GOD. But in the end you will see your true god, and he does not reside in heaven.

let's take a look and see if what you posted (and the intent behind it) is really what you think it means.

I can read Beffers, there is no mix-up in what I read from the mind of that She-Devil. So stop trying to make me look stupid. That is also a trick of the Devil. Making a truth look like a lie.

Tweety, this short and partial quote is simply part of a narrative of the beginning of the fall of Satan and sins eventual entrance into human history.

What? Are you suggesting that Satan co-ruled with GOD HIMSELF AFTER HE HAD FALLEN? Let us look back and re-read what the SHE-Devil wrote in it's entirety: So again, you lie, this is not a PARTIAL QUOTE. THIS IS A FULL QUOTE FROM THE SHE-DEVIL.

The Fall of Satan (ACCORDING TO THE SHE-DEVIL ELLEN G. WHITE)

Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ.

I would like for you or any of your so-called ad hearts to the She-Devil, prove to me with Biblical scripture taken from the KJV, that Satan was next to Christ in Heaven? I guess she got this part of the story from the devil, that showed her all those visions.

His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness.

Oh! How lovely she had actually seen Satan in his heavenly abode. Which by the way would have happened before the BOOK OF GENESIS. SO SHE HAS SEEN SATAN BEFORE HE WAS CAST OUT OF HEAVEN? AND YOU ACTUALLY WANT ME TO BELIEVE THIS BILE? I guess I would too if I was seeing Satan's version of the way things happened. Again another lie. He was one of the most highest angels in heaven believed before he rebelled. He was not like the other angels. He ruled the angels. He was not equal to them.

His forehead was high and broad, showing great intelligence. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic.

So, again, she is saying that she actually saw Lucifer before he was cast out of heaven? Which is proven BEFORE THE ACCOUNTS OF GENESIS, which was I just wonder why she did not describe Christ? It is because you will not find Christ, when you have been given a vision of hell. And another thing.. She is suggesting here that angels have flesh. WRONG! Angels are not made like we are. They have no flesh or bones. So, she is wrong or delusional in her description of an angel. She is giving the impression that can time travel.

But when God said to His Son, "Let us make man in our image,"

Let us go to that scripture, since it is quite evident that, she gives no Bible references, so people can check to see if she is quoting scripture.

Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)
^1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
²⁷So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Again, She-Devil is suggesting that she actually saw and witnessed the events of GENESIS 1:26-27. Again, suggesting that she was actually there when GOD created man. OH HOW DELUSIONAL. And by the way. Jesus was not a SON in GENESIS. HE WAS A SPIRIT. Or Jesus Christ lied, which she tried to show in her delusional state. MORE PROOF THAT SHE IS OF THE DEVIL. HIS SON SHIP DID NOT START UNTIL AFTER HE WAS ANOINTED with the HG, while on earth. I would say that if this She-Devil was of GOD, and had read the events of Gen. and the Bible she would have known that and known that GOD is A SPIRIT.(Jn4:24)
^4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

She could not comprehend that.. Because the SHE-DEVIL did not read a Bible throughout her whole life time. But listened to Satan, and wrote down the visions he showed her. And said they were of GOD.

Satan was jealous of Jesus.

And this SHE-DEVIL wants people to actually believe this? She is full of BILE, AND HER Visions, were of the DEVIL HIMSELF. To suggest that iniquity (jealously) , actually was allowed to be in heaven after Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth is puke. SHE makes a mockery out of what heaven is. SHE mocks his HOLY CREATION OF THE HEAVENS and EVERYTHING THAT IT CONTAINS AND STANDS FOR. She is clearly against anything of GOD.

He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man, and because he was not, he was filled with envy, jealousy, and hatred. He desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. {EW 145.1}

For a women to know the will and wants of Satan, and says nothing of the wills and wants of GOD, shows that she knows Satan's will and not God's. Satan's desires are put in writing by ELLEN G. WHITE. NOT GOD. Again, proof that she was doing Satan's work, and not God's. And you follow and believe the puke that came from her mouth? REPENT OF YOUR SINS, AND FOLLOW CHRIST.

That is a good fight of faith, Tweety. You are surely battling one of Satan's 'well-trained' talkers. He sure has the mouth to bash anything and anyone who gets in his path, believing one word of truth.

Now I see what makes him so sharp-tongued......he is totally under the influence of this 'she-devil' and her mangled, twisted and perverted teachings. So, he has the same delusional and corrupt mind that she had. (btw, I love that nick-name you gave her = she-devil.)

I have never actually taken the time to read her teachings. It is appalling that anyone could make such out-landish teachings and corrupt the Word that badly, and end up with millions of followers! Wow. shows how much people of this world love evil lies!

No wonder all Beffers speaks is a constant line of evil slander of those of us who speak truth. He has no teaching of his own...only a quick mouth to speak lies and twist everything into some twisted version of what we say.

He is well-trained in picking up other's words and making slop of them.

He eats with the other pigs, on this rotten, carron the she-devil spit out. and he has the rotten nerve to slander the truth I teach!

I now see why he hates this truth so much......it proves his 'god' is totally lying against God's truth, and therefore of the devil.

It is the same reason Branhamites hate my teachings.....it PROVES that man taught evil lies against God's word.

Same way with you dake followers.....you see by the truth I teach, that it proves, without a doubt, that Dake fits into this same slop-hole of pig-food.....feeding his lies to unsuspecting millions of souls. (when will you prove with Scripture that Jesus lived before he was born?) How long will you go about teaching this lie? without one word of proof from scripture? What scripture tells us that a spirit left heaven and put himself into a woman's womb and became a man? where is that verse? I have asked you many times....you just ignor it.

Same way with all the other false teachers. God's truth proves them all to be false and evil speakers, whose mouths need to be stopped.

So Please, Tweety, please, stop carrying Dakes lies to the world.

Wait, study and ask God to show you. You could just as easily prove his teachings to be of the devil, as you are doing Ellen Whites.

When you can do that, then we will be solid parteners in this fight of PURE FAITH in the KJV Truth.

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ga 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The above verses, alone, (if there were no more; but there are many, many)-- prove that it is bewitching to teach that one begins in grace, then has to be under law to be kept, or to be righteousness.

If so, then JESUS DIED IN VAIN. the she-devil and her followers are saying that Jesus died in vain.

I personally will have none of it.

Athough I don't agree with all the teachings in a "7th Day Adventist" church, I still don't see how judging a specific group (we might not agree with 100% ) as cultic.......Just for the sole purpose of trying to teach against God's 4th Commandment.

I mean that's basically all this is about. Unless we can pridefully say we KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW...we cannot look at our brother's speck in his eye.... clearly enough with this huge beam of pride in the way in our own eye.

There are many hundreds, thousands of religious denominations and sects. Main stream Christianity in this world has strayed pretty far from Jesus' teachings he started with His disciples in Jerusalem. It's ironic though how all the groups spend time pointing their boastful so called righteous finger at eachother instead of focusing on what God wants from each of us as individuals.

God has called us to change. Repentance means change. To turn from one direction and start going the opposite direction. God has called us to stop going the wrong way (which is ourselfish human way of reasoning) to God's way( which involves submission to God's authority over our lives).

Anyway...just my two cents. God Bless

Dovey, God called us all to study and learn HIS Truth, and then teach it to others. That is what I am doing. You can call it prideful and arrogrant if you choose, but is not that your judging me and terribly misjudging me? Sure it is.

God's FOURTH commanment? Do you honestly think that God never gave out a commandment before Moses had that table on stone? Do you honestly think that 4th, which you all dote so much on, (and ignore the other nine)--was the only FOURTH time God had given out any commandments?

My goodness! Every word of God is God's LAW. When he said, be fruitfull and reproduce, THAT WAS A COMMANDMENT. It was not an option given to man.

When God told Adam NOT TO EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THAT WAS A COMMANDMENT. It was not an option.

So, going by only these two, does that still mean your 4th is truly God's fourth? Judge righteous judgment.

Do you have any idea what that tree is? Are you sure you are not still 'eating' of it? this is what you truly need to be so concerned about, not an old abolished ten commandments.

Are you concerned with the COMMANDMENT to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS? Have you obeyed it?

If not, your repentance and trying to go another way, will not avail you one thing, for you are trying to do it without going GOD'S WAY.

That is a COMMANDMENT, which I think all of you who try to go back under that BONDAGE which God put those DISOBEDIENT ISRAELITES UNDER, totally ignor, to the damnation of your own soul.

You are trying to ignore NT salvation, and go to God by a door which he closed and locked and sunk that GATE into the ground.

HAVE YOU EVER READ LAMENTATIONS? If not, give it a try.

Have you read read Acts? If not, you really should.

Instead of trying to slam us who know the truth, and know that sitting down , or rather , going to church, on Saturday, is not God's way at all, you need to study the Word of God for yourself and learn how salvation is truly received.

iT IS not by going to church on Saturday.

Now if that is what you THINK keeping the Sabbath day is, PLEASE GIVE ME JUST ONE VERSE IN ALL OF GOD'S WORD, FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION, WHICH TELLS ANYONE TO DO SUCH A THING.

Surely if this is God's way of keeping sabbath, surely it is recorded in God's Word at least one time.

If it is not recorded in God's Word at least one time, IT IS A LIE SOME MAN MADE UP.

Now which is it? show me. I will be waiting for you to give me one verse showing how to keep that fourth commandment. show me what Scripture says about this.

I put this to adventist in here, several years, ago, and they all, without exception, were left without any answer, and all left. They had no scripture on how to do this. You keep telling us to do this, then show us how. give Scripture. teach us how to do this thing.

When you prove it with Scripture, I will most certainly comply. Show me in Scripture, how you 'keep' it and that it is God's chosen way. I want to see that.

You claim some Pharisees set the way....show me that also. Prove what you say with Scripture, as I DO.

You have judge me as arrogrant and proudful, so now prove what you are saying.

I teach the Truth. What are you teaching? Prove it. Prove that my OBEYING what God told me to do is being proudful and arrogrant.

If I do not know enough of God's word to understand what is a cult and what is not, I surely have no business trying to teach one thing. Neither does anyone else. If you can't judge a cult from truth, and warn God's people on this matter, you have no business trying to teach anyone anything.

Wonder why you who speak only of one thing, = keeping sabbath, never speak about the other nine commandments? Surely they are much more important.....such as do not kill.

do not steal.

do not bear false witness against anyone......why do you all not preach on these important things sometimes?

All I ever hear from adventist is keep sabbath. and yet they do nothing which Moses commanded concerning how to do this.

Why is this? dovey, can you answer these things for us and tell us how to keep that day holy? Sure would appreciate it.

The reason the "Sabbath" Commandment keeps coming up in these types of discussions is because that's the commandment most will reject.

Those who teach against the commandments of God say, only nine are still enforced but not the 4th commandment. That is double talk.

No where in Scripture will you see Jesus or any of the disciples teaching against ANY OF THE COMMANDMENTS. Not even the "Sabbath" Commandment.

Dovey, no where will you see Jesus or the disciples saying that they are striving to keep ten commandments, either. They did no such thing. They did not have to. They were not thieves, murderers, or false swearers, or anything of that nature.

The LAW of Moses was NOT GIVEN TO A RIGHTEOUS man. Jesus was a righteous man. He was not under that law. He was in grace. the disciples were in grace, not under that law.

they had no connection with 'keeping' laws, to live righteous and Holy.

The Apostles did try to live under that law, BEFORE THEY CAME TO JESUS AND RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.

Then they did teach people NOT TO GO BACK TO THAT LAW OF MOSES, WHICH IS THOSE TEN.

Again, go read ACTS 15. Read it a thousand times. You cannot understand a simple statement, because of the blindness and hardness of your heart.

No, Jesus Christ was NOT KEEPING ANY 4TH COMMANDMENT. If he had been, HE WOULD HAVE KEPT IT ACCORDING TO THAT LAW........>>>He would not have WORKED any at all on that day>>.

He would not have gone out his door, according to that law >>>

He would not have traveled any at all >>.

He would not have gone to the synogague>>.

He would not have kindled any fire>>.

He would never have picked up a stick>>>

He would have just RESTED ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

same for the Apostles, after they got to Jesus!!

You are trying to accuse Jesus of breaking that 4th commandment!! He did no such thing.

He was not trying to keep it. He was keeping the NT Sabbath of having the HOLY GHOST. he knew it was not a matter of doing physical labour or staying indoors, for this has nothing to do with keeping Gods REST, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, DAY IN AND DAY OUT. There is no other way. it is not the 4th commadment.

That law (the ten) was only imposed on those REBELLIOUS PEOPLE, BECAUSE OF THEIR EVIL.

Jesus and his disciples, and I, do not fit this category. We are not under that law. We do the commandments of Jesus. And you cannot show me where he commanded to keep saturday by going to church. show it to me!!! show me! if it is not written, it is LIES OF SATAN.

WHOSE WORD ARE YOU BELIEVING AND TEACHING?

Ok..so..since there is no commandment saying..."Thou shalt go to church",

That makes the 7th day Sabbath obsolete? Since it has nothing to do with going to church why would going to church make the 4th commandment void?

If a person doesn't want to go to "church" on the Sabbath day..fine. Going or not going to church doesn't change the commandment. It's still there.

Dovey, it is not a matter of wheather one goes to church or not. It is a matter of being under law, OR being under grace.

and I tell you that going to church BREAKS THAT 4TH COMMANDMENT, for under that LAW, ONE IS NOT TO GO OUT OF THEIR DOOR, NOR TO FIX ANY FOOD, NOR TO DO ANY KIND OF WORK.

Funny, how your false church 'claims' to keep this commandment, yet know not one thing about how god said to keep it.

everything you do, is in rebellion to how to keep it. you are rebellious to how god said to keep it. you are rebellious to every word spoken of how to keep it.

you flat refuse to keep it god's way. you are in rebellion, rebellion, rebellion. hear me loud and clear. all you adventist, who do despite to the spirit of grace.

You go around telling people that we need to keep the 4th, yet none of you keep it. you flat refuse the way to keep it, setting up rather, your own way, which is of the devil.

Doing NO WORK IS WHAT THE WHOLE THING IS ABOUT. Yet your FALSE church flat denies the entire thing of HOW TO OBEY THE 4TH, AND YOU FLAT REFUSE TO EVEN LOOK AT THIS FACT.

If you think you are still bound by that law, you are not in Christ Jesus.

You are totally DECEIVED AND LOVE TO HAVE IT SO. I have never yet, met an adventist, who can 'hear' one word of God. You are totally blind and deaf and headed to destruction, for you are doing despite to the Spirit of GRACE AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.

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