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on trinity : No Trinity, by Larry
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 Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 6/28/2007 1:22 AM
( I will be posting some of Larry's answers to someone teaching Jesus only and also trinity. this was done in 2003.)
 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/11/2003 10:12 PM

The Word of God teaches that there is but one God, the Father. Jesus is not God but the Son of God. There is only one that can be the Father. The scripture no where states that Jesus was God.

Why you all can not see this is beyond me? You take John 1:14 and destroy the meaning of it and you try to make it say something that the word does not say. The same thing with John 1:1 such as what Enkraw has done.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus is the Word. The Son of God is the Word. Christ is the Word

Would some one please show me 1 scripture that says that Jesus is the word or that the Son of God is the word or also that Christ is the word? You evens divides Jesus Christ here putting Jesus one place and Christ in the other. Can the body of Jesus Christ be divided? Certainly not.

1 Cor. 8:6 -But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, ( see he said there was one Lord with a small ord which means Jesus Christ and then he says beside that we have

4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all ( he is above all even Jesus Christ the Son Of God. Do you not remember where Jesus himself said my Father is greater than I. Jesus is the Son Of God not the supreme Almighty God. Jesus never said that he was God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. ( I hope you see the conjunction and there which means someone else than the only true God .

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. ( How could this be if he was the Father? Is Jesus going to deliver the kingdom up to himself and put down all rule and all authority and power.? If so who is going to have the rule and authority and power? Is he is going to pick it back up? If so why did he put it down? Would some one please explain this to me?

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: ( If Jesus is God which he is not tell me who is this God of out Lord Jesus Christ that is going to give unto you this spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him?

2 John1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. ( See by the word from there he is separating the Father from the son. Not the unity but he was showing that the Father is different from the son. He also said that Jesus Christ was the Son of the Father not the Father himself.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ( He said here is one God and one mediator, now how hard is it to add one + one and what do u get? A mediator is a go between two parties which happen to be Jesus, he is the only way man can get to the one God. Now if he is the mediator between man and God, would someone please tell me how he can be God? If Jesus Himself was God , as Trinitarians say, tell me how could he be a mediator ?



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 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:23 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/11/2003 10:17 PM

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me( Okay, their law stated that it takes the testimony of two men to be true, so what did Jesus say? He said I bear witness of myself, ( one-man) and the Father that send me bear witness of me ( two). Again showing that the Father and Son are different but once again as I explained before not in the unity.)

The New Testament is full of scriptures stating that Jesus is the Son of God.

God is the God of Jesus. Jesus recognized the Father, the one true God, as His God. Jesus never claimed to be God Himself. There is no scripture saying this. If it is not written it is not true.

There is scripture proving that God was the God of Jesus.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Math. 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

We could produce many more scriptures where Jesus called the Father his God but space is limited and some of you will say this is to long. But there are scriptures in the Old Testament where Jesus is talking to God.


Reply
 Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:24 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/11/2003 10:30 PM

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. ( see he said he went unto the Father which was greater than himself.

John10:30 I and my Father are one. . . ( Jesus was not stating that him and his Father was one here as the Trinitarians say and as the ONENESS people say. He referred to the unity such as was on the day of Pentecost where they were in one mind and one accord. Jesus prayed that this same unity would become a reality among his followers.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (see the plural word we there. If Jesus was God so are we because he said let them be one as we are one.)

Jesus lived as God's servant. He yielded perfect obedience to His Father. He always did those things that pleased God. This showed that Jesus recognized God as greater than he.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. ( Jesus received his knowledge from God because he said here that his Father had taught him what to do. Now if this is so how could he be God as the Trinitarians say and the oneness people say? God knows all things, Jesus did not. Boy did I really hit a nail ? To show you this I have scripture to prove it? You ought to know by now that myself or joie does not say what we can not show in the word. Now here is proof.

Mark13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father( See that is the best way to prove anything is by the word and the word said that hour knoweth no man, not even the Son, but only the Father. If the Son was the Father which again he is not, how come Jesus did not knoweth the hour?

God is perfect in knowledge. Jesus had to increase in knowledge.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. . ( increase means that he began to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of God as we should. You know a lots of time we say we want to be like Jesus, well let your wisdom and stature increase and that is the way to find favor with God and man.

Jesus said that Son can do nothing of himself, he only does what the Father tells him to do and speaks the things the Father tells him to speak.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. .

5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. ( see all Jesus wanted done was the will of the Father. He did not seek his own will as you know he said in the garden not my will but thine will be done.

There is so much more that I could add to this but this probably is already to much for some of you and I doubt that some has not even got this far. Besides I have been here on this for about 3 hours and I am so tired that I do not know whether I can get out of this chair or not, but this is the truth and you need to increase in wisdom of who the Son of God is and who the Father is.

Luke 10: 21. In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, LORD of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

23. And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24. For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

How I thank My God for this glorious and truthful message! This is food for my soul. This is truth. This is Manna from Heaven.

Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; and blessed are the ears which hear what you hear. Blessed of God are you and I.

We see and hear the truth. This is something almost no one has.

If a person can read this message and still cling to the lies of Rome, they are just doing dispite to the Spirit of Truth and rejecting, willfully, all that God teaches. I truly believe a person would have to willfully CHOOSE lies to refuse to see this which is so clearly taught and PROVEN BY WRITTEN WORD HERE.

It is as I have said so many times, we PROVE EVERY WORD WE SAY BY THE WRITTEN WORD. The Trinitarians and the Jesus onlies cannot prove a thing they say with WRITTEN WORD. They just hurl things at us which has been handed down to them from their 'fathers'. They have not sought to prove a thing as God said to do.

They KNOW THEY Could not prove what they say with Scripture; so they bring up false teachers' sayings. That is all the foundation they can find. Rotten Wood!

That is why so many come here to this group, stay a while, read our true messages; and then leave. They cannot take real truth; for it crosses their grain and the lies of their fathers. They are rejecting God when they reject the Word. Did not he say the Word was God? sure he did. It is the Father's own words; so it is him. My words are me; they are my thoughts. So it is with God.

They are accusing Jesus of a lie, they are accusing Jesus of claiming to be God. Jesus did no such thing! This is the sin of Adam, not Jesus.

Now read verse 21 above ---Jesus is thanking His Father that he hid these things from those who think they are wise and has revealed them to babes. We are his babes.

Now read v.22 (this is powerful)-- Jesus said his Father had delivered all things to him (see proof of my message on the transference of power -- that the Father put all things into Jesus' hands and lifted him up to the status of being our God?)

But look at his next words.....No man knows who the Father is-- except those to whom the Son reveals him. And no man knows who the Son is.

See? Only those to whom the Son gives this revelation to knows, KNOWS who the Father or the Son is.

Now I can assure all of you, the trinitarians and the Jesus only people DID NOT GET ANY REVELATION FROM JESUS SAYING WHAT ANY OF YOU SAY.

IF YOU SAY YOU DID, SHOW US THE SCRIPTURE JESUS REVEALED IT TO YOU FROM. HE ONLY GIVES REVELATION FROM THE WORD.

HE SAYS ONLY WHAT HIS FATHER SAYS; AND HIS WORD IS THE WORD. THIS IS GOD. THE WORD. YOU CANNOT PROVE A THING UNLESS THE WORD SAYS IT.

All any of you have is tradition handed down to you from someone else; not a revelation from Jesus.

If you had the revelation from Jesus, you would say the same thing he said. He said My Father is greater than I. I say only what my Father tells me to say.

Where can any of you make this statement? You cannot, and you know it.

So it proves you JUST DO NOT WANT TRUTH.

You accuse Isaiah and me of twisting the Word. I do not see one word in this message that was not quoted exactly from the Word. If you can find one place where he ( Isaiah) 'twisted' any Scripture,

BRING IT FORTH. SHOW IT. REVEAL IT.

All of you accuse us of twisting Scripture, yet you do not bring forth on Word which matches the Word.


Reply
 Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:25 AM
From: joie2 Sent: 12/11/2003 11:43 PM
Yes, Jesus is all God, and all man. But God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit[jzye......]

Now the above statement is an example of how you all say things which are NOT WRITTEN IN THE WORD AND ARE THEREFORE   UNPROVABLE.

 

Just quote me one verse of Scripture saying    "Jesus is all God ,  and all man".  Where is that written?  This is the work of evil, trying to make man be God or God be man.  It cannot be both.  Man is not God and God is not man.  Such foolish doctrine.  And it most certainly did NOT come from any Scripture.

 

There is enough truth in the above post Isaiah posted to show this whole world if they truly desire real truth.


Reply
 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:27 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameIsaiah·</NOBR> Sent: 12/11/2003 11:47 PM

This is sorta funny in away, not that it is funny because they do not see this wonderful truth, but the Trinitarians and also the Jesus only’s try to use the scriptures that I have listed below to show their belief. But neither one is right. The Trinitarians use these verse to make three persons Father, Son, Holy Ghost. And the Jesus only’s use these to make it look like that Jesus is God and again I say neither one of them is right.

Phil- 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell

1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

John 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Once again let me say that these scriptures does not teach that Jesus is God as the Jesus only’s say neither do they teach that there is a trinity like the Trinitarians teach.

All of the above scripture are stating that Jesus was in the image of God not God himself. Jesus was in the likeness of God. It is just as you look in the mirror and you can see your image looking back at you. He had God’s character and conduct. He reflected God's character in His perfect life. You see Jesus, you see the Father, not that they were one but because Jesus had God’s way. I ONLY DO WHAT I SEE MY FATHER DO AND I ONLY SAY THE THINGS THAT MY FATHER SAYS.

Jesus was not God Himself. ONLY THE IMAGE AND THE LIKENESS OF GOD

LUKE 24:; 26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Now I have shown this many times. When will you read it?

This clearly proves that Jesus suffered FIRST before he ENTERED INTO HIS GLORY.


If you ENTER INTO SOMETHING, then you were not already there. Jesus was not in GLORY when he was walking around here on earth in a mortal, corruptible body. Paul said it is SOWN = (burried) in weakness, It is RAISED IN POWER = RESURRECTIONS.

THIS IS THE GLORY.

Paul said it is sown in DISHONOUR; IT IS RAISED IN GLORY. (1Cor. 15: 43.)

Now if you wish to say Jesus' mortal, corruptible body which they burried is that GLORY, then go and tell Paul he LIED. HE DID NOT KNOW WHAT HE WAS SAYING.

Am I not the one saying what the Word says? Sure I am. Nowhere is it said that the first man Adam, = (humanity) was GLORY AND POWER THIS SIDE OF THE RESURRECTION.

If it was, what need did we have of a Saviour?

Tell me that; if it already is glory and power, why need a resurrection?

The GLORY which the Word was made, which dwelt among us, which we beheld, and still behold by faith, is THE RESURRECTED CHRIST.

This is the same one who walked up to God on his Throne and TOOK THE BOOK OF LIFE OUT OF GOD'S HANDS AND NOW HOLDS OUR REDEMPTION IN HIS OWN HANDS, THIS IS THE GLORY, THIS IS THAT POWER, THIS IS THAT RESURRECTED CHRIST.

JESUS BORE THIS CHIRST, THIS PERFECT SON OF GOD. BY HIS PERFECT, SINLESS, OBEDIENT LIFE AND HIS RESURRECTION.

You have no concept what took place there. But here is what took place; (Scripture; not my words)

Luke 24: 46. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Now this verse proves yet more that Jesus SUFFERED before he was RAISED to power and glory.

39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus said God is a Spirit. Here after his resurrection, he declares to them that he is NOT A SPIRIT; HE IS STILL FLESH AND BONES.

NOW THIS IS THE FLESH WHICH THE WORD WAS MADE. THIS GLORIFIED FLESH IS WHAT YOU SEE IN REV. 19 CALLED THE WORD OF GOD. NOT THAT WEAK, MORTAL FLESH WHICH MAN KILLED. THAT IS NO MORE.

NOW JESUS IS RAISED TO POWER AND LIFE, NOW TO RETURN NO MORE TO CORRUPTION. SO SAID THE MAN WITH THE KEYS, PETER. IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG, THEN GO TELL PETER HE LIED.

Matt. 28: 18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth

(Why did you not read verse 18 when you read 19?)

Jesus here, after his resurrection into his GLORY, told them, ALL POWER is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth.

Get that? GIVEN TO ME. What? He is the eternal God, co-equal with God? and this power had to be GIVEN to him?

Explain. Also explain where the verse is which says Jesus, the second person in the God head is or was CO-EQUAL with God) I just never read that anywhere in the Book.

This GIVING OF THE POWER TO JESUS IS WHAT TOOK PLACE IN THAT THRONE ROOM WHEN THAT SLAIM LAMB WENT UP TO GOD SITIING ON HIS THRONE AND TOOK THAT BOOK INTO HIS OWN HANDS.

No, it is not as your carnal mind leads you to believe **** Jesus is NOT ANOTHER GOD; JESUS IS NOT IN COMPETITION WITH GOD.

Shows you have no concept of ONENESS. There is no competition; there is no jealousy; there is no conflict.

YES, NOW JESUS IS MY GOD; BUT ONLY BECAUSE HIS GOD SET IT THIS WAY. GOD THE FATHER SET HIS SON JESUS IN THE SAME PLACE OF POWER AND AUTHORITY AS

GOD HIMSELF HAS. JESUS IS NOW ONE WITH GOD. YOU HAVE NO CONCEPT OF WHAT THIS MEANS. ALL YOUR WORDS PROVE IT.

Take only what is WRITTEN IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

Do not take anything anyone told you or tells you, UNLESS HE QUOTES YOU KJV SCRIPTURE SAYING WHAT THEY SAY.

I warn all of you, it is a dangerous thing to accept anything anyone says or said unless THEY CAN QUOTE IT FROM GOD'S BOOK. IF GOD DID NOT SAY IT, IT IS A BIG, FAT, DAMNING LIE.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT. IF YOU BELIEVE SOMETHING ELSE, YOU ARE SAYING TO GOD THAT HE IS A LIE AND YOU BELIEVE A MORTAL MAN.

Now you said that Jehovah, the LORD of the O.T. is Jesus of the new t. now if this be so. kindly explain by the Word of God HOW THAT ETERNAL SPIRIT, GOT INTO MARY'S WOMB, AND WAS BORN FROM A HUMAN WOMAN as a human baby.

HOW DID HE CROSS HIS OWN WORD WHICH HAD SAID ** GOD HAS NO BEGINNING OR ENDING; NO MOTHER OR FATHER; NO ENDING OF LIFE.

JESUS' LIFE ENDED AT CALVARY. He DIED and went into HELL FIRE. And you mean to try to tell us that is the ETERNAL GOD?

I am telling you, anyone who can believe this lie does not know God in any kind of way.'

You are putting the twisted words of a carnal minded man above the Word of God.

If God LEFT heaven, and got into Mary, and was born as Jesus, please tell me WHO WAS THAT SPEAKING FROM HEAVEN AT JESUS' BAPTISM AND CALLING JESUS HIS SON?

it is proven there that God was still in heaven; he had not left heaven. it is a big lie!!!!

This is so foolish no sensible person could believe such a lie.

I warn all of you, THERE IS NOT ONE WORD OF SCRIPTURE SAYING THIS LIE.

(Jesus himself proved that he is not the WORD when he said, my words are Spirit and they are life; then later after his resurrection, Jesus said, feel me and handle me and SEE (UNDERSTAND)-- that a SPIRIT hath NOT flesh and bone as you see me have. there. now that proves it. JESUS PROVED RIGHT THERE THAT JESUS IS NOT THE WORD; FOR THE WORD IS SPIRIT AND JESUS IS NOT SPIRIT. WHAT IS DIFFICULT ABOUT THIS TO SEE? I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT HARD TO GET.

If you would all read the word for just what the word actually says and quit adding to it you would see that I am teaching it exactly according to the written word. To call me wrong is to call the Word a lie, for I quote the Word exactly for EVERY THING I SAY AND YOU KNOW IT.

YOU HAVE KNOWN ME LONG ENOUGH TO ADMIT THIS. YOU WILL NOT FIND A SINGLE MESSAGE OF MINE WHICH IS NOT FILLED WITH QUOTED SCRIPTURE.

I do not add to it, take away from it, or change it and you KNOW IT.

Now where God said LET US make man in our image, this is NOT A TRINITY. Yes it is plural. but not trinity. God is a kingdom of many, many members. Not angels;; Spirit. God is many members. But not a trinity. not angels. God.

Jesus is NOT ONE OF THEM. Jesus said he was not and is not a SPIRIT. Jesus was and is a man. Angels are spirits. but not the God spirit.

God made man in his own image when he raised up Jesus from the dead.

This is the gospel TRUTH.

When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, they were frightened and thought he was a spirit. But he told them he is not a spirit.

After the resurrection, when he entered the room with them but not through the door, they were again frightened and thought he was a spirit. Again he told them HE WAS NOT A SPIRIT.

People, read this. Listen to the Spirit of truth. Jesus proved by these two instances, two witnesses that HE IS NOT A SPIRIT.

Jesus told the woman at the well, GOD IS A SPIRIT. The word was God.

Jesus did not say the Word is me, a man. Jesus said the Word was God.

Jesus said God is a Spirit. Jesus said My Word is Spirit; my Word is life.

Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see me have, after my resurrection; I am still not a SPIRIT; BUT THE WORD IS SPIRIT.

How can you find this difficult to understand?

We (all true Christians) are WITH CHILD, THE CHILD JESUS GROWING TO BE FORMED INSIDE US. WE WILL COME FORTH AT THE RESURRECTION AS CHRIST. CHRIST IN US. THAT IS HOW JESUS WAS THE VIRGIN WITH CHILD. HE HAD CHRIST INSIDE HIM. CHRIST WAS JESUS' PERFECT LIFE BROUGHT FORTH AT THE RESURRECTION.

DEAR, THAT RESURRECTED CHRIST WAS NOT MARY. IT WAS JESUS. JESUS BORE THAT MANCHILD, THE CHRIST. I DO HOPE ALL OF YOU CAN ONE DAY GET THIS GLORIOUS REVELATION.

CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY.

CHRIST IN JESUS, OUR ONLY HOPE. JESUS OVERCAME SIN IN THE FLESH, AND BROUGHT FORTH THE FIRST PERFECT SON OF GOD, IN GOD'S LIKENESS AND IMAGE, AT HIS RESURRECTION.

THIS IS OUR HOPE, TOO. To bring forth Christ inside us.

We are all ONE. We are all to bring forth Christ inside us. We are to come forth at the resurrection in the likeness and image of the resurrected Christ.


Reply
 Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:29 AM
From: joie2 Sent: 12/11/2003 11:48 PM
John 8:16.  And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
 
SoulCompeller�?/U>   how do you explain that?  Jesus said  I am NOT ALONE;  BUT   I  AND  THE  FATHER??? 
 
ARE YOU NOT CALLING JESUS A LIE TO SAY HE IS ALL ALONE?  HE HAS NO FATHER; HE IS HIS OWN FATHER?  OK NOW,  COME ON.  EXPLAIN THIS   WITH WRITTEN WORD.
 
Larry, the above message is such great teaching.  I wonder how anyone could miss something this plain in Scripture?  If Jesus were God, as they ALL claim,  then why would it say he was in the IMAGE of  God?  And why would it say God was IN Christ?  If he were God, he would not be in himself.  That is not correct speech.

Reply
 Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:30 AM
From: joie2 Sent: 12/12/2003 10:02 PM
Luke 24:37.  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

This is after the resurrection~ Jesus entered the room with them.  They thought he was a spirit and it frightened them.  Look what Jesus told them:


 38.  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
 39.  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

Now that is Jesus own words. he said he was not, get that,  NOT a spirit.   God is a spirit.  after his resurrection,  Jesus was still not a spirit.  He was and is still a  MAN,  a human man.  glorified man.


 40.  And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
 41.  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
 42.  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
 43.  And he took it, and did eat before them.
 44.  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
 45.  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
 46.  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
 
Now for one more:
Matt. 28:18.  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
 
Now see that Jesus said  all power is  GIVEN  to me?  Given to me!  If he were God; and If he had all power before his death and resurrection,  then why is he saying here that this power was  GIVEN  to him?
 
If he were God, he would have had it of his own accord.  It would not have had to be given to him.  And Who would have given it to him?
 
This is how all the power or fulness of the Godhead  dwells   BODILY in Jesus   = because it pleased the Father,  Jesus' God,   to give Jesus, His obedient Son, the very same power and authority which He possessed himself.
 
Thus Jesus now has the same power as God.  He can send us His spirit and resurrect as God does.  He said himself.   AS   THE  FATHER  HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF,  SO HAS HE     GIVEN  (AGAIN,  GIVEN) to me to have life in myself.
 
Now go deal with that a while. This power had to be  GIVEN  TO JESUS BY GOD.

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 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:35 AM

5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. ( see all Jesus wanted done was the will of the Father. He did not seek his own will as you know he said in the garden not my will but thine will be done.

There is so much more that I could add to this but this probably is already to much for some of you and I doubt that some has not even got this far. Besides I have been here on this for about 3 hours and I am so tired that I do not know whether I can get out of this chair or not, but this is the truth and you need to increase in wisdom of who the Son of God is and who the Father is.

Luke 10: 21. In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, LORD of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

23. And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24. For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

How I thank My God for this glorious and truthful message! This is food for my soul. This is truth. This is Manna from Heaven.

Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; and blessed are the ears which hear what you hear. Blessed of God are you and I.

We see and hear the truth. This is something almost no one has.

If a person can read this message and still cling to the lies of Rome, they are just doing dispite to the Spirit of Truth and rejecting, willfully, all that God teaches. I truly believe a person would have to willfully CHOOSE lies to refuse to see this which is so clearly taught and PROVEN BY WRITTEN WORD HERE.

It is as I have said so many times, we PROVE EVERY WORD WE SAY BY THE WRITTEN WORD. The Trinitarians and the Jesus onlies cannot prove a thing they say with WRITTEN WORD. They just hurl things at us which has been handed down to them from their 'fathers'. They have not sought to prove a thing as God said to do.

They KNOW THEY Could not prove what they say with Scripture; so they bring up false teachers' sayings. That is all the foundation they can find. Rotten Wood!

That is why so many come here to this group, stay a while, read our true messages; and then leave. They cannot take real truth; for it crosses their grain and the lies of their fathers. They are rejecting God when they reject the Word. Did not he say the Word was God? sure he did. It is the Father's own words; so it is him. My words are me; they are my thoughts. So it is with God.

They are accusing Jesus of a lie, they are accusing Jesus of claiming to be God. Jesus did no such thing! This is the sin of Adam, not Jesus.

Now read verse 21 above ---Jesus is thanking His Father that he hid these things from those who think they are wise and has revealed them to babes. We are his babes.

Now read v.22 (this is powerful)-- Jesus said his Father had delivered all things to him (see proof of my message on the transference of power -- that the Father put all things into Jesus' hands and lifted him up to the status of being our God?)

But look at his next words.....No man knows who the Father is-- except those to whom the Son reveals him. And no man knows who the Son is.

See? Only those to whom the Son gives this revelation to knows, KNOWS who the Father or the Son is.

Now I can assure all of you, the trinitarians and the Jesus only people DID NOT GET ANY REVELATION FROM JESUS SAYING WHAT ANY OF YOU SAY.

IF YOU SAY YOU DID, SHOW US THE SCRIPTURE JESUS REVEALED IT TO YOU FROM. HE ONLY GIVES REVELATION FROM THE WORD.

HE SAYS ONLY WHAT HIS FATHER SAYS; AND HIS WORD IS THE WORD. THIS IS GOD. THE WORD. YOU CANNOT PROVE A THING UNLESS THE WORD SAYS IT.

All any of you have is tradition handed down to you from someone else; not a revelation from Jesus.

If you had the revelation from Jesus, you would say the same thing he said. He said My Father is greater than I. I say only what my Father tells me to say.

Where can any of you make this statement? You cannot, and you know it.

So it proves you JUST DO NOT WANT TRUTH.

You accuse Isaiah and me of twisting the Word. I do not see one word in this message that was not quoted exactly from the Word. If you can find one place where he ( Isaiah) 'twisted' any Scripture,

BRING IT FORTH. SHOW IT. REVEAL IT.


Reply
 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/28/2007 1:37 AM
From: joie Sent: 12/14/2003 12:15 AM
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father
 
Mattie, If Jesus were God, as you think, (he is our personal God only because his God set him there on the throne of God and said for us to worship him. Heb. 1)
 
..then how is it that he had to   go  to the Father?
Jesus said,  I come  to thee...........this signifies that Jesus was not at that particular moment there with the father.
Certainly could not mean that he is the Father.  If he is the Father, what did he mean,  I come to thee?  Why would he have to go to the Father if he were the Father?
 
See there is no sense to your way of looking at this.
 
Now you make many statements which are NOT WRITTEN IN THE WORD TO TRY TO BACK UP THAT jESUS-ONLY LIE.
 
You will notice that Isaiah and I both quote Scripture exactly for all that we teach.
 
You need to come to understand that there are different kinds of 'flesh
 spoken of in the Word of God.
 
The FLESH  Jesus told us to EAT,,  IN ORDER to have eternal life  is certainly NOT HIS HUMAN flesh.   Now is it?  If so, how are you going to do that thing?  How are you going to take a bite of his human body and chew it up and swallow it?
 
His   FLESH  is the Word.   His human body is not that flesh.
 
The word was not made into a human body.  No.  It was spiritual words we eat.  Spiritual flesh.  = words.
 
God only means He was manifested in this SPIRITUAL FLESH = WORDS.  Not a human body which got tired, ate, slept, and was finally killed by man and went into hell.
 
Now that was NOT GOD.    God cannot die.
 
How do you account for the fact that AFTER  GOD,  THE SPIRIT, LEFT OR FORSOOK  JESUS ON THE CROSS,   JESUS WAS STILL ALIVE, SPEAKING?
 
See, Jesus' own human spirit was still inside him.  Or else his human body would have been dead.
 
Jesus said if you see me, you see my Father.  What did he mean?  Who is his Father?  Does the Word 'see' have a meaning other than to behold an object with the natural eye?  Of course it does.
Does the word  'one' have a meaning other than the digit  1?  Of course it does.  Do you ever study these things?
If not, you need to.
 
See, means to UNDERSTAND.
 
a little at a time.
 

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