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Question&Answer : Why this name change?
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Reply
 Message 1 of 30 in Discussion 
From: joie  (Original Message)Sent: 12/24/2003 6:13 AM
Why was Saul's name changed to Paul?


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Reply
 Message 16 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/18/2006 8:38 PM
Jennifer, It is too hard to read your tiny, jam-up print.
 
So I will excuse myself from this discussion.
 
Jesus is the only name our Savious had or has.  It is not an OT name, for Jesus was of Grace.  Paul was changed because now Saul was into Grace.
 
The real signifiance in these name changes is to show a change.  they came from Law to Grace.
 
This is the only way to find salvation.
 
by law shall no flesh be justified.

Reply
 Message 17 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameImmatureTetrarch1Sent: 9/19/2006 6:14 AM
Whoa!   Hold on there Joie!   Jennifer went to some trouble to give us some scholarly scoop on the Biblical names.   I don't think you can dismiss this with a wave of the hand and by declaring  " Jesus is Jesus and no other name" as if somehow you are the final word on this sort of thing.   Just so you can read Jennifer's splendid contribution to this discussion,  I'll magnify it for you:

 

Reply
 Message 18 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameImmatureTetrarch1Sent: 9/19/2006 6:16 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameJenniferGR2</NOBR> Sent: 9/18/2006 1:09 PM

The Hebrew form of her name is miryam denoting in the Old Testament only the sister of Moses. In I Par., iv, 17, the Massoretic text applies the same name to a son of Jalon, but, as the Septuagint version transcribes this name as Maron, we must infer that the orthography of the Hebrew text has been altered by the transcribers. The same version renders miryam by Marian, a form analogous to the Syriac and Aramaic word Maryam. In the New Testament the name of the Virgin Mary is always Mariam, excepting in the Vatican Codex and the Codex Bezae followed by a few critics who read Maria in Luke, ii, 19. Possibly the Evangelists kept the archaic form of the name for the Blessed Virgin, so as to distinguish her from the other women who bore the same name. The Vulgate renders the name by Maria, both in the Old Testament and the New; Josephus (Ant. Jud., II, ix, 4) changes the name to Mariamme.

It is antecedently probable that God should have chosen for Mary a name suitable to her high dignity. What has been said about the form of the name Mary shows that for its meaning we must investigate the meaning of the Hebrew form miryam. Bardenhewer has published a most satisfactory monograph on the subject, in which he explains and discusses about seventy different meanings of the name miryam (Der Name Maria. Geschichte der Deutung desselben. Freiburg, 1895); we shall be able to give only an outline of his work. Fr. von Hummelauer (in Exod. et Levit., Paris, 1897, p. 161) mentions the possibility that miryam may be of Egyptian origin. Moses, Aaron, and their sister were born in Egypt; the name Aaron cannot be explained from the Hebrew; the daughter of Pharaoh imposed the name Moses on the child she had saved from the waters of the Nile; hence it is possible that their sister's name Mary was also of Egyptian origin. This seems to become even probable if we consider the fact that the name Mary was not borne by any woman in the Old Testament excepting the sister of Moses. But the question why was not the name Mary more common in the Old Testament, if it was of Hebrew origin, is answered by another question, why was the name Mary chosen by the parents of Our Blessed Lady and by a number of others mentioned in the New Testament, if the word was Egyptian? Though the meaning of Mary as derived from the Egyptian Mery, Meryt (cherished, beloved), is most suitable for an only daughter, such a derivation is only possible, or at best barely probable.

Most interpreters derive the name Mary from the Hebrew, considering it either as a compound word or as a simple. Miryam has been regarded as composed as a noun and a pronominal suffix, or of a noun and an adjective, or again of two nouns. Gesenius was the first to consider miryam as a compound of the noun meri and the pronominal suffix am; this word actually occurs in II Esd., ix, 17, meaning "their rebellion". But such an expression is not a suitable name for a young girl. Gesenius himself abandoned this explanation, but it was adopted by some of his followers, e.g. by J. Grimm (Das Leben Jesu; sec. edit., I, 414-431, Regensburg, 1890) and Schanz (Comment. uber d. Ev. d. hl. Matthäus, p. 78, Freiburg, 1879). One of the meanings assigned to the name Mary in Martianay's edition of St. Jerome's works (S. Hier. opp., t. II, Parisiis, 1699, 2°, cols. 109-170, 181-246, 245-270) is pikra thalassa, bitter sea. Owing to the corrupt condition in which St. Jerome found the "Onomastica" of Philo and of Origen, which he in a way re-edited, it is hard to say whether the interpretation "bitter sea" is really due to either of these two authorities; at any rate, it is based on the assumption that the name miryam is composed of the Hebrew words mar (bitter) and yam (sea). Since in Hebrew the adjective follows its substantive, the compound of the two words ought to read yam mar; and even if the inverse order of words be admitted as possible, we have at best maryam, not miryam. Those who consider miryam as a compound word usually explain it as consisting of two nouns: mor and yam (myrrh of the sea); mari (cf. Dan., iv, 16) and yam (mistress of the sea); mar (cf. Isaiah 40:15) and yam (drop of the sea). But these and all similar derivations of the name Mary are philogically inadmissible, and of little use to the theologian. This is notably true of the explanation photizousa autous, enlightening them, whether it be based on the identification of miryam with me'iram (part. Hiphil of 'or with pronominal suffix of 3 plur.), or with mar'am (part. Hiphil of ra'ah with pron. suffix of 3 plur.), or again with mar'eya (part. Hiphil of raah with Aramaic fem. termination ya; cf. Knabenbauer, Evang. sec. Matt., pars prior, Parisiis, 1892, p. 43).


Reply
 Message 19 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameImmatureTetrarch1Sent: 9/19/2006 6:16 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameJenniferGR2</NOBR> Sent: 9/18/2006 1:10 PM

The word Jesus is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is the transliteration of the Hebrew Jeshua, or Joshua, or again Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation." Though the name in one form or another occurs frequently in the Old Testament, it was not borne by a person of prominence between the time of Josue, the son of Nun and Josue, the high priest in the days of Zorobabel. It was also the name of the author of Ecclesiaticus of one of Christ's ancestors mentioned in the genealogy, found in the Third Gospel (Luke 3:29), and one of the St. Paul's companions (Colossians 4:11). During the Hellenizing period, Jason, a purely Greek analogon of Jesus, appears to have been adopted by many (1 Maccabees 8:17; 12:16; 14:22; 2 Maccabees 1:7; 2:24; 4:7-26; 5:5-10; Acts 17:5-9; Romans 16:21). The Greek name is connected with verb iasthai, to heal; it is therefore, not surprising that some of the Greek Fathers allied the word Jesus with same root (Eusebius, "Dem. Ev.", IV; cf. Acts 9:34; 10:38). Though about the time of Christ the name Jesus appears to have been fairly common (Josephus, "Ant.", XV, ix, 2; XVII, xiii, 1; XX, ix, 1; "Bel. Jud.", III, ix, 7; IV, iii, 9; VI, v, 5; "Vit.", 22) it was imposed on our Lord by God's express order (Luke 1:31; Matthew 1:21), to foreshow that the Child was destined to "save his people from their sins." Philo ("De Mutt. Nom.", 21) is therefore, right when he explains Iesous as meaning soteria kyrion; Eusebius (Dem., Ev., IV, ad fin.; P.G., XXII, 333) gives the meaning Theou soterion; while St. Cyril of Jerusalem interprets the word as equivalent to soter (Cat., x, 13; P.G., XXXIII, 677). This last writer, however, appears to agree with Clement of Alexandria in considering the word Iesous as of Greek origin (Paedag., III, xii; P.G., VIII, 677); St. Chrysostom emphasizes again the Hebrew derivation of the word and its meaning soter (Hom., ii, 2), thus agreeing with the exegesis of the angel speaking to St. Joseph (Matthew 1:21).


Reply
 Message 20 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameImmatureTetrarch1Sent: 9/19/2006 6:17 AM
 
Yosef is a given name originating from Hebrew, recorded in the Hebrew Bible, as יוֹסֵף, Standard Hebrew Yosef, Tiberian Hebrew and Aramaic Yôsēp̄. In Arabic, including in the Qur'an, the name is spelt يوسف or Yūsuf. The name can be translated from Hebrew as signifying "The Lord will increase/add". This variant of the name is used mostly in English and French-speaking countries.
 
  • Joseph
  • Saint Joseph of Nazareth is a figure from the New Testament prominent in Christianity, who was husband of Mary and thus step-father of Jesus
  • Joseph of Arimathea, from the New Testament, acquired the body of Jesus from Pontius Pilate
  • The early Christian Barnabas was originally known as Joseph
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph


    Reply
     Message 21 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameImmatureTetrarch1Sent: 9/19/2006 6:21 AM
    Thanks Jennifer!   Your posts really went a long way toward clarifying this name conumdrum.

    Reply
     Message 22 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/19/2006 10:15 PM
    I have no interest in such stuff.  did not look at it.  if others need this kind of stuff to get into the Word of God and find any faith,  go to it.
     
    I NEED IT  NOT.
     
    I study the Word of God.  It IS VERY SUFFICIENT FOR ME.
     
    I HAVE NOT READ YOUR STUFF AND AM NOT GOING TO.
     
    ALL YOU PEOPLE DO IS SEEK OUT SOME KIND OF SCRAMBLED UP STUFF TO TRY TO TEAR PEOPLE'S FAITH DOWN WITH.
     
      God's Holy word is all I need.  It teaches me God and God's way.  so you just wallow in your man-made delusions.
     
    and DON'T GO TELLING ME HOW TO POST. 

    Reply
     Message 23 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameJenniferGR2Sent: 9/20/2006 4:01 AM
    Freeborn,
    Do you believe that the bible was written in languages other than English?
     
    Jennifer

    Reply
     Message 24 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/20/2006 1:21 PM
    Certainly.  But I have no need of them.  I read English, and have a perfect Scripture in English.
     
    If they are truly the Word of God, they will all say the same thing, for God does not lie,  he does not say one thing here and another there, thereby teaching some people one way, the others another way.
     
    God has only one way for all people.  We will all be judged by the Same Word of God.
     
    'Earthly langauge is no barrier to God.

    Reply
     Message 25 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 9/20/2006 4:56 PM
    Reply to # 13
     
    Jennifer we all agree that the Messiah was born a Jew [Yew], and there is no letter J, in the Hebrew Language and never has been, as a matter of fact, the letter J did not show up in any language until around 1200 plus years after the death, burial and resurrection of the Messiah, therefore making Jehovah false also.
     
    Eric


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    Reply
     Message 26 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/20/2006 6:01 PM
    this kind of thinking and rambling around with stuff, is causing many to lose their faith and hope for eternal life.
     
    Better just study and believe the Word of God, and not man's ramblings, trying to bypass the true God and His ways.
     
    JO

    Reply
     Message 27 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameJenniferGR2Sent: 9/21/2006 3:48 AM
    Hi Joie,
    I'm trying to understand your teaching that Jesus is the only name of our Lord and that there were no other Jesus-es in the Old Testament or New for that matter.  Did His friends, relatives and disciples call Him Jesus or a Hebrew derivation? 
    Not that it matters all that much to me, but I'm trying to understand why you put so much emphasis on it.
    Thanks
     
    Jennifer

    Reply
     Message 28 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/21/2006 4:06 PM
    I put emphasis on all the truth of the Word of God.
    Now this is important from many reasons.  God said the name of Jesus is the only name given under heaven, among men,  whereby we MUST BE SAVED.
     
    There are millions today who are trying to do away with this name of Jesus.  It has been a battle here for a long time.
     
    No, the people did not call Him by a Hebrew name, for he never had such.  The angel told Mary and Joseph to call his name JESUS.
     
    Since David,  Moses, and Saul all appear the very SAME IN BOTH the OT and the NT  there is no reason to assume that the name of Jesus would be any different.
     
    There is much spiritual reason for this need for knowing the TRUTH about law and grace.  Eveything in Scripture or our lives to God revolves around which do you believe,  law or grace?  which do you live by,  law or grace.
     
    When you allow some man to RULE over you,  tell you what to believe, pay homage to other human men, then you are under LAW.  for under grace, we are all FREE AND THE SAME.  we are all ONE.
     
    JESUS WAS AND IS HIS NAME.  We cannot change it.  No man can change it.  All who do so,  do it at the cost of their souls.

    Reply
     Message 29 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameJenniferGR2Sent: 9/21/2006 4:30 PM
    So the Hebrew/Aramaic speakers Mary and Joseph and all the friends and disciples of biblical times would have used the English version of Jesus?  That just isn't historically accurate.  You do understand that Tyndale translated the Greek into English.  And that the Jews reading the original Torah would have read the words Shaul for Saul and Moshe for Moses.  Just because the KJV you are reading is written in the English language doesn't mean that the people in the bible spoke English.

    Reply
     Message 30 of 30 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/21/2006 5:24 PM
    What I am showing is that David in the Hebrew was called David in our English.  So it was the SAME NAME IN BOTH PLACES, OT and NT.
     
    Saul was called Saul in the OT and Saul in the NT English.  So it was the SAME in the Hebrew and Greek bibles.
     
    The name of Jesus is not once named in the OT.  It is just not there. Paul is not once there.  Peter is not once there.
     
    There is not one title mentioned in Scripture for God.  It is always his NAME.
     
    God is God in the OT.  God is God in the NT.  Can you not understand what I am saying?
     
    JO

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