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SACRED NAME : SACRED NAME TEACHING
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Reply
 Message 1 of 18 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah  (Original Message)Sent: 11/28/2006 6:55 PM
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/8/2003 8:08 PM
OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH A
SACRED NAME ASSEMBLY
 

WHAT
 ONE SACRED NAME GROUP
DID
(and continues to do)
TO MY FAMILY





          The hurt these people have caused my family in the name of their religion is truly amazing. It has made me conclude that they serve a different god than the one we serve.
          First, you should know that we were second and third generation members of a oneness pentecostal church near the town of White House, Tennessee. This church changed what it formerly believed to become a Sacred Name church.
         In 1992 and 1993, the minister started preaching and teaching what he told us were the Hebrew names of God. He called the God of the Old Testament YHWH. This he said should be pronounced "Yah-wah."
   At first he said our Savior's name was Yasha. He pronounced it like the name of the great Russian born Jewish violinist, Yasha Heifetz. Later he linked it with YHWH and said it was YHWH YHWSH. This combination he pronounced as "Yah-wah Yash-wah."
   [NOTE: You may have noticed, as we did, that the SH is in the last syllable of the written word, YHWSH, but in the first syllable of the pronunciation, Yash-wah. Little inconsistencies like this seemed to go unnoticed by most people in the congregation.]
          Through all this teaching, this man maintained that he was not vocalizing any vowels as he pronounced these names. The logic for this was something like, the Hebrew language does not use vowels and neither are we. This kind of logic and misappropriation of facts is pervasive within the religious movement promoting the use of the sacred names.
   [NOTE: The ancient Hebrew written language used no vowels. But as language cannot be spoken without vowels, the spoken Hebrew certainly did use vowels.]
          I researched this teaching and was very surprised to learn that the pronunciations he was using were not Hebrew at all. These were pronunciations that this man and others in their ignorance had simply invented.
          It seemed to me that they were basing their service to God almost solely on the use of these "sacred names." Knowing, as I did, that these names were simply made up, I could do no less than reject them. Salvation cannot be predicated upon using a made up name.
          I later learned that one of the women in the church told the preacher that God had revealed to her the correct pronunciation of the Savior's name - Yash-wah. He changed his pronunciations to match hers. In August of 1993, he apologized to the congregation for any part he "may have had" in their mispronunciation of the name.
          Hebrew scholars do not use these pronunciations. Bible language scholars and Bible history scholars do not use these pronunciations. Jewish people do not use these pronunciations. But this sacred name congregation uses these pronunciations because they had a "revelation from God." This minister said that he got what he taught just like Paul got what he taught, directly from God.
 
 

         WE REFUSED TO LEAVE THE TRUTH!

          When the church changed its beliefs to coincide with this man's teachings, they were rebaptized, in 1994, in the name of Yahwah Yashwah. My family and I held true to what we had always believed. We exited the congregation in late 1993, before this man held his baptismal service. We refused to go along with this made up teaching in order to keep our place in the church. We had to stand for the truth no matter what our friends and family were doing. Because of this, we were treated like we had leprosy and worse.
          Friends and family members who stayed in that group will no longer associate with us. They have told us that it is like we are dead to them. Some even said they will not ever again be in the same room with me. Some have refused to attend weddings because I performed the ceremony. Two of my daughter-in-law's sisters and her mother refused to even come to her baby's shower because my son an his wife are no longer members of their church.  It would appear that their leader told them not to come. He controls their lives. Because of this, my daughter-in-law's mother seldom sees her grandson. He is growing up without her. This is such a shame!
         We had to leave that church to stand for the name of Jesus. We left that church, but we did not leave the Truth.
 
 

         THE WORKS OF SATAN WERE MANIFEST

          When we left, the Powers of Darkness rose up against us. Attacks began to be made on our character. Gossip began to circulate that we were liars, thieves, spiritual wolves, adulterers, fornicators, and other such nonsense. It was said of us that we were rebellious, that we just wanted to get away from any kind of authority, that evil spirits had taken us over, and other less complimentary words.
          Every one of these accusations are false. But these lies are still being circulated and believed among these people. We were advised that we would have a good defamation of character and slander case in court, but until now we have not pursued this avenue.
          These false accusations were made only to dehumanize us and kill our credibility and influence among the people who had loved us for so many years.
        All this happened some years ago. Yet we are still being persecuted till this very day. I conducted a funeral service a few days ago. After the service, my son, my wife, and I went to a local restaurant for lunch. A couple with whom we had been close friends came into the building and were waiting to be seated. They looked into the dining room and saw us already seated. They immediately turned and left the restaurant without speaking to us.
          While we were in this church, our family was as well respected as any family in the church. When we left, we suddenly became evil personified, if one is to believe the gossip mill.
          Why are we persecuted by these people? The reason is simple enough. We stood firm for the name of Jesus. We refused to accept this "New Revelation." We went against the "leader" of this group. We held to God's word, the Bible, instead of the leader's word, his imagination. We simply do not believe and accept the sacred name doctrine this preacher began teaching. We rejected their spiritual leader and his pet teaching.
          Now, many people whom we have known for years will not even speak to us. They go to the other side of a store or street to keep from speaking to us. Some will walk right by and when we speak to them, they act as if we were not there. More that once, we have been in restaurants when some of these sacred name people entered and upon seeing us left the premises, refusing to eat where we were.
          My daughter has received one harassing phone call. One is enough. She was home alone at night when a despicable person phoned her and in an obviously disguised, gruff, and whispered voice called her, "Backslider," and hung up.
          I have received a number of threatening phone calls. Someone calls who feels that God has appointed them to tell me what he thinks of me. A call or two has been about how God will get me sooner or later. One sad person called to accuse, threaten, and try to intimidate me into not telling the story of what has happened to my family and me. He was most angry about the Cult Awareness Seminar I give.
          I told him I love him. What can you say to someone like that?
          Yes, I have been threatened with bodily harm. If you think all the religious zealots with hatred in their hearts are in the Middle East or Northern Ireland, you need to think again. Sit and talk with my family and me for an hour or two. None of us has been deterred in the least from serving the Lord Jesus by these intimidation tactics.
 
 

         ENEMIES OF gOD?

          When the leader of the group says we are his enemies and the enemies of his god, how can you expect the congregation to act?
          Here is a statement this man made in a sermon about those of us who left, "It would please me if God would just take 'em off of the face of the earth."
          This pitiful man actually hopes we will die. Let him keep hoping. Is it any wonder my life has been threatened.
          When the leader of the group says such inflammatory things, when he encourages the congregation not to shake our hands, not to speak to us or have anything to do with us and then states openly how it would cause him pleasure if God would take us off of the face of the earth, someone in the congregation is likely to do some extreme acts.
          Such a god! It is certainly an interesting study in human behavior. It surely is not godly behavior.
          If this is how receiving the revelation of the sacred name causes one to be, why would anybody want it revealed to them?
 
 

          LETTERS WE HAVE RECEIVED






          Here are excerpts from letters we received from former friends who remained in that assembly.

          1. "If you are not for YHWSH, you are against him & that makes you my enemy too." [We did nothing except keep believing what we had believed and we are now someone's enemies.]

          2. "You have done worse than all the preachers thats been here and there has been many." [I was this lady's pastor for over twenty years. As you can see, she thinks I am the worst of the worst.]

          3. "Enclosed is the 20 dollars you sent J----- for his birthday. We felt to return it to you." [This, from my wife's niece when we sent her son a birthday gift. She refused to let us be part of this little boy's life anymore. When this child, who loved us so dearly, sees us now he does not even speak to us. How sad. My wife still cries many tears for this little boy.]

          4. "God has been showing us what you are. A SNAKE. As you know the word of God teaches us a snake or serpent is called the devil." "I feel like I can't stand to look at you, with pride written all over your face." [This letter is signed by a couple with whom we went on vacation, stayed in their home, regularly ate out, and had many wonderful and good times.]

          The sad part of all this is that these things are done with the blessing and encouragement of the leader of this group.
 
 


         WOLVES, LITTLE WOLVES, AND PUPPIES






          Here is an interesting occurrence which exemplifies the thinking and attitude of this sacred name leader and his assembly.

          My wife's mother died Thanksgiving week, 1998. This same sacred name preacher was in charge of the funeral service. After spending less than a minute (I timed it.) telling about the life of my mother-in-law, (She was a great and courageous Christian lady who had done many good and often sacrificial deeds for the name of Jesus, for the advancement of his kingdom, and never believed the sacred name teaching.) the preacher spent the rest of his time teaching and attempting to prove the doctrine of the sacred name. While at the same time saying that if this lady had ever heard his doctrine, she would have believed it.
          Three pastors were there, including myself, who were associated with this church before it went into the Sacred Name Movement. The sacred name leader, who could not find more than a minute to speak about this fine Christian lady's life, found time to do the most insensitive and asinine thing I have ever witnessed at a funeral. With this good lady's seven children present, knowing that four of them did not agree with his teaching, he derisively challenged those who disagree with him to either "put up or shut up." These four family members and a number of extended family members, not to mention others who were just friends of the family, took this inordinate challenge as no challenge at all, but only a malicious personal insult. They took it as an affront to their mother's memory. They also see it as a rash and uncaring offense against the memory they will have of their mother's funeral service. If ever there were to be a time or place for such a thing as he did, this funeral service was neither.
          Since that funeral service, this man has taken an extra ordinary amount of time delivering harangues to his people about staying away from the "three wolves"- the three pastors who were there. He put pictures of three wolves on his overhead projector to graphically illustrate his point for the congregation. He has told them to also stay away from the little wolves. By this he indicates our children, who are all adults.
          This sad and fear filled man, who apparently cannot tell how contemptible his words sound, told his congregation to have nothing to do with the puppy wolves. He is talking about our innocent grand children. There are five between the three of us. This attempt to demonize even our babe-in-arms grand children, shows the level to which this man has devolved.
          But, God works all things together for good. At least one fine person took all they could take of this nonsense and has since left that sacred name assembly saying that they will not go back.


 

CONCLUSION

         This has been a very traumatic experience for my family and me. However, the experience has given us the ability to view the sacred name doctrine from a perspective not shared by most people.

         None of us will ever believe the sacred name doctrine, not because we had a bad experience, but because we see it for what it is, error. At the same time, neither will we ever be back as part of that congregation.

         We got out. Now, if we can find others who are inclined toward getting out of a sacred name assembly, we make it our goal to help them get out.

         We still serve Jesus. Satan may loudly roar, but he has no teeth. His teeth were pulled on a hill outside Jerusalem hundreds of years ago.

          We sure would be glad to hear from you. Please email us any comments or questions you may have.
 
 
 
 


CONTACT US

   If you have comments or questions; if you are in a sacred name assembly; if you came out of a sacred name assembly; if your story would help someone else, contact us.
   Our efforts are focused on one goal, getting a single person out of the Sacred Name Movement. 
 

YOU MAY CONTACT US EITHER OF THESE WAYS.
--  E-MAIL  --
--  US MAIL  --
 Gary Mink, Editor
Gary Mink
2723 Heights Circle Road
Greenbrier, TN 37073

 




First  Previous  4-18 of 18  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 4 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:02 PM
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/9/2003 3:43 PM
 

DOES JESUS = ZEUS?
 

INTRODUCTION


   Many Sacred Name Movement people believe and openly propagate the myth that the name of Jesus is in some way connected with or derived etymologically from the name Zeus. Some believe it, but know it cannot be substantiated by research and are silent about it.  The more knowledgeable people within the movement openly deny the truth of it. Some of these seem to want to pretend the myth was never taught by the early movers and shakers of the movement and is not now being taught within the movement. These certainly resent it being brought up and talked about by one outside the movement.
   I have been derisively and insultingly told, “That Eeyaezus [Jesus?] has nothing to do with Zeus is your greatest intellectual hurdle.�?This is from an otherwise intelligent man who wanted to discuss the doctrine of the revelation of the Sacred Name with me on a higher level.

   Some Sacred Name people teach this false doctrine; some do not. Regardless of the position an individual Sacred Name person may take, this fact remains: a large segment of the movement still believes this lie. Promoting the Jesus = Zeus myth to new converts is an easy way to get them away from saying the name of Jesus. It gives them a reason to look down on, even hate, the name of Jesus. The teachers of the movement use this lie as an appeal to the need many people have to possess esoteric knowledge which gives them a superiority over others. We know more than you know and if you knew where the name of Jesus came from you wouldn't be using it, are not uncommon attitudes.
   Except in the minds of numbers of Sacred Name people, there is absolutely no connection between the name Jesus and the name Zeus. It is easy, however, for SN teachers to pull this doctrinal stuffed bunny out of the Sacred Name Movement hat and fool people into thinking it is real. It is not of any substance. It is especially easy to trick folks who are eager to believe something. Many of them are not interested in and are trained not to ask for documentation of research. You may be sure of one thing, when this mythical connection between Jesus and Zeus is put before a group of people, the Sacred Name teacher is casting aspersions and disdain on the name of Jesus.
  Let it be stated early and with emphasis that not all Sacred Name people believe the name Jesus is derived from the name Zeus. It is, after all, a lie. It has no foundation in any legitimate research. The teaching is rejected by some; it should be rejected by all Sacred Name people. This teaching is the product of the fertile imaginations of Sacred Name teachers.
   First, we will show that this doctrine has been taught and propagated in various Sacred Name publications since the early days of the Sacred Name Movement. We may be certain that it was taught from SN pulpits much earlier. It is still being taught both orally and in print by numerous SN groups. A large majority of Sacred Name believers subscribe to this false teaching and promote it as though it were fact.
   Second, we will show that the name Jesus has a well grounded and easily researchable etymological history. It is not now, nor has it ever been etymological connected with the name Zeus. Sacred Name people might easily find this etymology, if that were their desire. Some have done so.
 


Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 11 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/9/2003 3:46 PM
SECTION ONE:

WHO PROMOTES THIS FALSE TEACHING?
 
 

A. B. TRAINA TEACHES IT IN HIS BIBLE

   A. B. Traina is the father of the Sacred Name bible. His corruption of the King James Version was the first such bible. On page five of the preface of his bible are these words:
“The name of the Son, Yahshua, has been substituted by Jesus, Iesus, and Ea-Zeus (Healing Zeus).�?/FONT>
   This statement is patently false. Though Traina is deceased, his book is still out there teaching this false doctrine. I am sure, when he pinned and published these words he believed the name of Jesus meant Healing Zeus. I am told, by people who knew him, that he was an earnest and sincere man.
  Whatever Traina’s beliefs, sincerity, and ethics, the fact remains that he made a false statement which is not and cannot be backed by any valid research at all. Traina stated it as fact, but did not include any documentation.
  This false statement was allowed to remain in the preface of his publication through various editions and printings for over two decades. It serves to show how entrenched this myth is. It also shows how good and ethical scholarship was lightly regarded, perhaps disdained, within the movement during these years.
  The Holy Name Bible in my possession, from which the quotation was taken, has a publication date of 1974, some twenty years after the first publication of Traina’s New Testament. I have been assured that this false statement has been left out of the more recent
printings of this bible. From the point of view of valid scholarship, this was a necessary step.
   [NOTE: The Holy Name Bible on my shelf has a stamp from The Assemblies of Yahweh, Bethel, Pa. I have only hearsay evidence that The Assemblies of Yahweh promote the Jesus - Zeus connection.]
   However, this action was very late and fell far short of filling the need. The lie was propagated from SN pulpits in numerous locations for two decades prior to Traina’s bible. Traina’s bible gave the myth a legitimacy and credibility which to this date is little diminished.
   How many of Traina’s bibles are still out there teaching this false doctrine? Over the years, numbers of Sacred Name assemblies and individuals who cling to the King James Version have used Traina’s book as their bible. They have also accepted his notes, including the above statement, as true. Many still do. The myth has taken on a life of its own.
  It might have been helpful if an explanation and a disclaimer had been put into recent editions of The Holy Name Bible.
INSTITUTE FOR SCRIPTURE RESEARCH
TEACHES IT
   Institute For Scripture Research, South Africa and Rhode Island, USA, is publisher of The Scriptures. This is one of the more recent entries into the ranks of Sacred Name bibles. This group continues to reproduce the Jesus/Zeus connection in print. As a consequence of their stand, it seems shameful that the words research and scripture are included in the name of the organization.
  Here is a quotation from the Explanatory Notes section of their bible (1998 printing) under the article Jesus:
   “Consider Iesous, rendered as ‘Jesus�?in English versions up to now.  For example the authoritative Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell and Scott, under Iaso:  The Greek goddess of healing reveals that the name Iaso is Ieso in the Ionic dialect of  the Greeks, Iesous being the contracted genitive form! In David Kravitx, Dictionary of Greek and Roman Mythology, we find a similar form, namely Iasus. There were four different Greek deities with the name Iasus, one of them being the Son of Rhea.�?/FONT>
   This statement is a prime example of the pseudo scholarship that seems pervasive within the Sacred Name Movement.
  The quotation has the name of the Greek goddess of health and healing as Iaso. In Greek, the nominative case of this word is spelled with the Greek letters Iota, Alpha, Sigma, Omega - Iasw. The Greek word Jesus in nominative case is spelled Iota, Eta, Sigma, Omicron, Upsilon, Sigma - IhsouV. Didn't anyone at Institute for Scripture Research notice the different second letters - Alpha and Eta - in the two words?  Sure they did. They just hoped you and I wouldn't notice. We did.
  This brings us to the mention and use the Institute makes of the genitive forms of the two words. For Iaso, the genitive, as given by ISR, in Greek letters is IasouV. For Jesus, the genitive in Greek letters is Ihsou. The impression the Institute desires to leave with us and certainly with avid Sacred Name converts who read their bible and its notes is that the words are the same.
   However, the words are not at all the same. They are like the English words bell and ball. Consider the genitive forms of these words, bell's and ball's. That one letter makes them entirely different words.
   Bell's and ball's may look alike and even sound a bit alike, but that is the end of their similarity. One is not derived from the other. The Greek words IasouV and Ihsou to some may look alike and they, too, sound a bit alike. There ends their similarity. One is in no case derived from the other. The people at Institute for Scripture Research know this.
   Add to this, the fact that Liddell and Scott’s Lexicon, at least the one on my book shelves, makes no mention of Iaso being Ieso in the Iconic dialect. Perhaps someone misread it.
  Now, we come to the Son of Rhea - Zeus. So, the Institute is attempting to foist off on us the same old Sacred Name Movement absurdity that Jesus equals Zeus.  When in truth, the words are not connected in any way. They only look alike because of the final two letters.
   If, however, we do as some SNM teachers do and force a twisted pronunciation of the word Jesus, Gee-zoos, we can make the words sort of sound alike. For many Sacred Name people, that is enough. It also seems to be enough for Institute for Scripture Research.
   This whole idea given to us by the Institute is gobbledygook, folderol, and foolishness. It is inserted in the notes of their publication, The Scriptures, with the calculated intention of leaving the reader with the idea that the name of Jesus is in some way derived from and connected with the name of one or more pagan gods, particularly Zeus.
   This is a false impression. It is the impression Institute for Scripture Research wants to convey to us. Such scholarship, or lack thereof, as is exemplified by this, brings shame on many who indulge in it.
   If the Institute would study the Scriptures a bit more and do some real Research, they would find this myth to by unworthy of the name of their institute and the false impression they leave to be unworthy of an organization claiming any connection at all with the scriptures.
YISRAYL HAWKINS AND HIS
HOUSE OF YAHWEH TEACH IT
   William Hawkins, who changed his name to Yisrayl Hawkins, is founder and leader of the House of Yahweh in Abilene, Texas. Hawkins has the distinction of claiming to be one of the two witnesses mentioned in The Revelation chapter eleven. His brother, now deceased, claimed to be the other witness. Hawkins will also decease without this claim coming to fruition.
   House of Yahweh is perhaps the largest single group of Sacred Name believers in America under the oversight of one organization and one man. If it is not the largest SN group in America, it most certainly ranks among the top two or three. It is one of the crown jewels of the Sacred Name Movement.
   Hawkins is well known for his many misfired prophesies, his deviant teachings, his strange practices (polygamy among them), his need to sell books, his exclusivity, and his atrociously mangled revision of the Scriptures - The Book of Yahweh.
   On one of the web sites touting the superiority of The Book of Yahweh, can also be found the House of Yahweh version of the same old Sacred Name Movement lie, Jesus = Zeus.
   The purpose of this web site [wysiwyg://52http://yahshua.freeserver.com/kjv3.html]  is to explain the “Mistranslations of the King James Version of the Bible.�?This is done from The House of Yahweh point of view.
   A chart of mistranslations in the KJV is under the heading: The Names changed to Condemn us. Jesus is listed as a mistranslation. No mention is made as to what Jesus may be a mistranslation of. Yahshua Messiah is listed as the correct translation. By way of explanation of this so-called mistranslation we are told, “Jesus is Zeus, the Greek sun god,�?
  This is a very typical Sacred Name Movement articulation of the doctrine. It is generally given without any sort of documentation. It seems to be a statement that is solidly and firmly believed among this particular Sacred Name group. No one is expected to question its validity.
   It is simply the continuation of the same old silly idea that because the words Jesus and Zeus both end with u - s  they must be kindred words. It is a lie, a fabrication. It is another mendacious attempt on the part of the House of Yahweh to discredit the name of Jesus.
   Does the revelation of the doctrine of the Sacred Names need this kind of help to sustain it? A teaching built on a foundation of lies can in no case be the truth.
  The House of Yahweh and Yisrayl Hawkins need to stop publishing such nonsense. It is predicted here that they will not stop.
 
 

SMALL GROUPS AND INDIVIDUAL SACRED NAME PEOPLE TEACH IT

   A substantial percentage of Sacred Name people are either members of small groups or individuals who associate with no group at all. While these people may not be considered by some of the larger assemblies within the movement to be in the main stream of the Sacred Name Movement, they surely are part of the independent minded people who make up the movement. Some of the names they have chosen to make sacred and cling to are often a bit unusual compared to those normally found in the Movement. Sometimes their practices are not in conformity with others in the Movement.  Nevertheless, their published thoughts, opinions, and teachings are part of the larger cacophony emanating from the Sacred Name
Movement.
   As representative of them all, four are here presented for consideration.

      1.      Across the River Ministry, Matherville, Ill
      2.      Bible Revelations - www.revelations.org.za/
      3.      Qodesh Beyth Yahweh, Flat Rock, NC
      4.      Tobiyah - members.aol.com/Tobiyah/
 
 

   Across the River Ministry:

           The quotation is from the web site at www.netins.net/acrossriver/TheirNames.html.

“Well, wouldn't it be OK to keep using the name Jesus? The meaning of IEOUS in the Greek is ‘the son of Zeus, or the son of the most high god known to the Greeks as Zeus.�?Now we know that Zeus was the main Greek god and head of the pantheon of Greek gods�?by Sister Dawn�?/FONT>
   It seems likely that this Sacred Name teacher has gotten the Jesus/Zeus myth from Sister Dawn. It seems likely he has never done any research for himself to ascertain the truth of falsity of the statement he has made.
   Probably without even knowing it, he is just parroting the same old lie that his spiritual forbears parroted before him.
 

   Bible Revelations

                    The quotation is from the web site at www.revelations.za/
 

“Exactly the same as the pagan influence changed YAH’SHUAH to ‘Y’Zeus�?- (‘Jesus�?- phonetically ‘Jezus�?, so also Luke 4:27 reflects the change of ‘Eli’Shuah�?to’Eli’Zeus�?(My God is Zeus�?!�?/FONT>


   Where did this Sacred Name teacher get his research? He does not bother to tell us. He cannot tell us; he didn't do any. He has simply put his own spin, and not a very well thought out spin at that, on the same trite and worn out Sacred Name Movement fiction.
   He has no regard for the facts and the use made historically of the Greek word IhsouV. Forging ahead, in Sacred Name Movement fashion, he tips his hand by using the word “phonetically.�?Here he has told us the basis for his teaching; Jesus sounds like Zeus.
   The sound alike theory, Jesus sounds like Zeus therefore it is derived from Zeus, is pretty much the single and major basis for this SNM lie ever being taught. Our teacher in this instance has, by some Sacred Name Movement standards of research, done well.
   He could be complimented on adding an interesting new twist, Eli’Zeus = My God is Zeus. His reference is to Luke 4:27 in the KJV where Elisha is spelled Eliseus. It just sounds too much like Zeus for our teacher. He jumps at the chance to use his phonetically-like-Zeus theory. His jump takes him off a cliff. His smash up leaves him in ruins. The word Eliseus has nothing whatsoever to do with the word Zeus. Just as the word Jesus has nothing whatsoever to do with the word Zeus.
   However, it was a beautiful dive until he hit the bottom.
 

Qodesh Beyeth Yahweh

   The quotation is from the web site at                    www.qodeshbeythyahweh.org/html/dispersion.html

“But, for the Christian ’religion,�?the name of the Adversary's son is.. Ge-Zeus, Son of Zeus ...�?/FONT>
   This teacher is vehemently against the Christians. He blames them for most, if not all, the problems facing the society of America and the world. He is so over zealous for his position that he is willing to use anything available to him to make these “Christians�?look as bad as possible.
   He doesn't bother to explain himself, but seems to indicate that Zeus is the same as Satan and Ge-Zeus (Jesus) is his son. If this is what he is actually stating, then his conclusion would be that “Christians�?worship the son of Satan. That is a very strong statement, especially since no documentation is presented with it. It is apparently what at least one Sacred Name teacher promotes.
   He could have made the Christians look bad by just telling the truth. There are many false doctrines among them. History and today's newspaper tell us that Christians are killing each other as well as their perceived enemies. Christians already look pretty bad; there was no need to resort to this Sacred Name Movement lie for that. Sad.
 

  Tobiyah

   The quotation is from the web site at                   http://members.aol.com/Tobiyah/clouds.html

“The name JESUS is derived from the Latin words GE ZEUS, meaning THE FISH.�?“The christians today still blindly worship this false god. That is where the sign of the fish has been adopted today as the sign of the believer.�?/FONT>
   Here is one other SNM teacher who sees the necessity of sharing his research with us. He gives us a nice picture of a page from a Latin Dictionary. Of course, he fails to tell us what Latin Dictionary it is. We look in our own Latin dictionary (D. P. Simpson, Cassell's New Latin Dictionary, Funk and Wagnalls, N Y, 1968) and find under article Zeus : “a kind of fish.�?/FONT>
   Perhaps our teacher does not know that just quoting a book of some kind does not necessarily prove your point. It certainly does not prove your point unless it mentions your point. In this case, the Latin Dictionary does not even hint at the Sacred Name Movement teacher's point.
   The quotation from the Latin Dictionary says not a single word about Jesus being derived from Zeus. The Latin dictionary gives us nothing about Ge Zeus. It does not tell us the name Ge Zeus means the fish. Didn't this sacred name teacher notice this? Probably not. The Latin dictionary says only that there is a kind of fish called Zeus. What is most amazing about all this is that our teacher should imagine he has by this means proven his point.
   This Sacred Name Movement teacher has made a giant leap to conclude that GE ZEUS means THE FISH in Latin. He wanted so badly for it to be so, therefore, in his mind, it has become so. He is then delighted to connect this to people displaying a fish on their car, their desk, their refrigerator, their person, and etc. For him, this just reinforces his point as proven.
   Sacred Name people write me and call me to express astonishment that I should say the Sacred Name Movement has pseudo scholarship in it. This man's logical process and his conclusion do not even make good nonsense. Calling it pseudo scholarship is giving it a compliment.
   In his attempt to preach this lie of long standing, he has only succeeded in showing how little studying he has done and how little of that he has even understood.
   A number of Sacred Name people seem to think this false doctrine is not taught among them anymore. In fact, the Jesus = Zeus theory is still very much alive. From the beginning of the movement, shoddy research was the basis for much of the teaching, particularly the doctrine of the sacred name itself. That heritage is in no place more manifest than in the doctrine of the name Jesus being connected with the name Zeus.
   All these witnesses have been given in order to show how rife the Sacred Name Movement is with this teaching. It is a fact that a very large majority of assemblies and individuals in the movement are believers of this lie.
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 Message 5 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:04 PM
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/9/2003 3:48 PM
  An interesting observation is that while SN people are quick to inform us that they do not believe in an inspired translation of the Bible, they certainly do believe in inspired transliterations of the sacred names. These, of course, are always their own  transliterations and ones sanctioned by them.
 
 THE NAME OF JESUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
   Our Savior's name was given from heaven some four to eight years B.C.E. It seems obvious that he was given the same name as was born by the great leader of Israel, Joshua he son of Nun. We do not know and cannot know how his name was written or spoken in Hebrew. The name may never have been written in Hebrew at all, but in Aramaic.
   However, even if his name were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, we have no record of it. Sacred Name teachers tell us that his name had to have been spoken in Hebrew. More likely it was Aramaic. Whether one or the other, there is still no record of it.
   We do have the historical record. It is the New Testament. In every case where the writers of this book transliterated the Messiah's name into Greek they chose IhsouV, Jesus, as the correct transliteration.
   When Jesus was born into the mixed Hebrew, Greek, and Roman culture of Judea and Galilee, it was already known how his name should be transliterated into Greek. That had been settled about three hundred years before. That Jesus lived in a mixed culture is shown,
among other things, by the sign above him at his death. It was in three languages, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Bear in mind that Galilee, because of Gentile (Greek) dominance, is called in Scripture, Galilee of the Gentiles. The area had been under Greek domination since Alexander the Great, centuries before Jesus was born.
   The transliteration of iwvhy (or whatever spelling of the Messiah's name may have been used at that time), made by the apostles and apostolic men when they wrote the New Testament, is IhsouV, Jesus.  No Healing Zeus. No son of Zeus. No Ie-Zeus. Just Jesus.
   Here is a question for all of us. Will we trust the transliteration done by SN teachers or will we trust the transliteration done by the men who wrote the New Testament?  I believe I will hold to the New Testament book and its writers. One is able to see that on this point as well as numerous others, Sacred Name teachers are left in a position of shame.
THE NAME JESUS IN SECULAR DOCUMENTS
    The transliteration of the Hebrew and Aramaic name of Joshua the son of Nun into Greek as IhsouVduring the time both before and after the Savior lived is attested to by manuscript evidence. These are available for study at any major university library. In these also we can find no Zeus connection in the name of Jesus.
   Might I  suggest one manuscript for consideration. It is 5/6 Hever Babatha Archive, Greek Document 2  (5/6  HevBA 2).
   A copy of the manuscript on film, with all its tears, damage, and other imperfections, can be found in The E. L Sukenik Memorial Volume (1889 - 1953), editors N. Avigad, et. al., Israel Exploration Society, Jerusalem, 1976.
   A non manuscript copy set in modern type (it is easier to read) can be seen in the book, Eretz-Israel, Archaeological, Historical and Geographical Studies, Volume Eight, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, The Shrine of The Book, et. al., pg. 50. This copy has both the Aramaic and Greek texts.
   Another copy in modern type is on page 162 of A Manual of Palestinian Aramaic Texts, (Second Century B. C. --- Second Century A. D.), ed. Joseph A Fitzmyer, S.J., et. al., Biblical Institute Press, Rome, 1978. This copy has only the Aramaic section, lines 11, 12, and 13. It has a nice English translation on the facing page.
   This interesting if somewhat unusual manuscript was found at Nahel Hever. It certainly is poignant to our discussion of the transliteration of our Saviors name into Greek in the first and second centuries of the common era.
   The document bears the date August 19, A. D. 132. It is a receipt given by Babatha to the Jewish guardian of her son for payment of six denarii for food and clothing for her son, Jesus. It is written in both Aramaic and Greek.
   On line 12, in the Aramaic portion, twice repeated is the boy's name, iwhy. This is the shortened form of the name commonly used during this period. On line 16 of the Greek portion, is the transliteration, IhsouV.  In secular documents, the name Jesus is the transliteration for the name Joshua.
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CONCLUSION

"IT'S A LIE"

   In this study, we have found that many Sacred Name Movement assemblies and individuals have over the years promoted the false teaching that the word Jesus is in some way connected to the word Zeus. We have studied who teaches it and how and where they teach it. Many within the Movement still believe and promote this teaching.
   We have further studied the historical derivation of the name of Jesus. It is the English form of the Greek of our Savior's name used by the Writers of the New Testament.
   Many have been the errors of the Sacred Name Movement since its inception in the early second quarter of the twentieth century. There are some serious and pivotal errors taught within the movement. Adherents to and promoters of the Jesus = Zeus theory are some of the most fanatical and harsh people within the movement.
   No teaching of this religious persuasion is more obviously false than this one. When I was in grammar school, children would say of any falsehood, “That is just a bare faced lie.�?The Sacred Name Movement teaching that the name Jesus is in some way connected with or derived from the name of the Greek idol god Zeus is just exactly that, a bare faced lie.
Note: Quotations from Sacred Name sources and others have been edited for spelling.
 
 

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Recommend Delete    Message 13 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/9/2003 3:53 PM
There is so much more that I could go into here but I think that I have shown enough of this to expose their lie. In closing this out let me do one more on Zeus, this thye call Jesus and say his name is pagan worship. We all know this to be a lie.

Zeus language=JavaScript> </SCRIPT> «zoos», was the ruler of the gods in Greek mythology. Zeus was a sky and weather god, especially associated with rain, thunder, and lightning. The Greeks believed he was all-knowing and all-seeing. The Greeks considered Zeus a father figure and a protector, especially of guests and strangers. The Roman god Jupiter was equivalent to Zeus (see Jupiter).

Zeus was the son of Cronus and Rhea, members of an earlier race of ruling gods called the Titans. Zeus and the other children of Cronus defeated the Titans. Zeus then took Cronus' place and ruled from his home on Mount Olympus. He headed a family of 12 major gods and goddesses called the Olympians. Some lesser gods also lived on Olympus. Zeus's brothers were the gods Hades and Poseidon. Hades ruled the underworld, and Poseidon ruled the seas. The goddesses Demeter, Hera, and Hestia were Zeus's sisters.

At the time Zeus was introduced in Greece, the religion of that area was based on fertility. Each community had a major fertility goddess and a male god associated with her. Zeus eventually took the place of many of these male gods, and became the husband or lover of the goddesses. Later, Hera became Zeus's wife, and other goddesses took a lesser status.

Zeus had many love affairs with goddesses and mortal women and fathered many children. His children included the goddess Aphrodite; the gods Apollo, Dionysus, and Hermes; and the mortal heroes Perseus and Heracles (Hercules in Latin). Zeus alone gave birth to the goddess Athena.

In art, Zeus is depicted as bearded and majestic, often holding a thunderbolt. The eagle and the oak tree were symbols associated with Zeus.

language=JavaScript> </SCRIPT>

 

 


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Recommend Delete    Message 14 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/9/2003 9:52 PM
This is a much needed series of messages.  Too many people have stayed in ignorance of these matters much too long.  Ignorance is taking people down that road to hell fire.
 
I saw where in one of their statements of the pope's being god, that they said these words:  fully god and fully man.
 
I realized that this is why they say this about Jesus, for they must first make Jesus be fully god and fully man in order to pave the way to make this human devil a god.  See unless they first taught that Jesus was both fully god and fully man, then who would ever believe that the pope could be both fully god and fully man?
 
So see that this teaching is only a tool of satan to carry on this evil teaching that pope is god.  So all who repeat and believe that lie are helping satan rule.
 
Jo

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Recommend Delete    Message 15 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/9/2003 11:16 PM
I have said from the very first time I ever heard this foolishness of Jesus not being the N.T. Name of our Saviour, that it is a made-up, unprovable lie.  and so it is.
 
Now this foolish lie that God never intended or allowed a translation of His Word into any other language than the original one is so stinky, there are not words for it.  This is actually accusing God of not wanting any other people to know His Word, and therefore Him, other than those who could read the original language.  I do not for one minute believe God had any such intention = keeping His Word hidden to the rest of his creatures.
 
No, a thousand times not.  This is insinuate that God only knows one language; he is incapable of giving it in any other language; he does not love the rest of us; he is going to judge us by His Word of which He never gave us a chance to hear or learn.
 
Nope, not my Loving God.  He did no such thing.  It is a lie, devil.  I flat refuse it.
 
I tell you the original Word was in Heaven before there was any Hebrews or their language.  All the World spoke one and the same language until God scattered them over the whole world and changed their languages.  And I am telling you, this was not HEBREW.  There were no such peoples as Hebrews until Abraham.
 
Abraham was not born a Hebrew; for there were no such peoples.  This is NOT a race of people.  It is merely a Heavenly Name by which God calls his people.  So is the term,  Jew.  That is not a race of people.
 
Is not Abraham the Father of the Hebrews?  Of course he is.  Does not the Word of God tell us that he was born a SYRIAN?   Of course it does.
 
So maybe we better go learn Syrian, huh?
 
God's word was in the Heavenly unknown tongue.  It was translated into Hebrew, supposedly by Moses.
 
And yet we are told God did not permit any translations of His Word.  Such a hideous lie.  God moved on Holy Men to translate the Word.  They were faithful to God and the Word.  They had no ugle, sinful ulterior motives, as these sacred name liers do today.  They are the ENEMIES OF JESUS, OF WHOM PAUL WARNED US.
 
Know what?  If there are no true translations of the Word,  then we do not even know if there ever was such a person as a son of God, now do we?  After all, what teaches us that, except the Holy KJV of the Word, or some other TRANSLATION.
 
How do we know there ever was a Paul? or a crucifixion?  See, if there are no translations of the Word, no one knows any of this, for there is no way to know.
 
I almost guarantee you, that original Hebrew is NOT KNOW BY A LIVING SOUL TODAY.  So who is going to read the Word of God and tell all the rest of the world any truth?
 
There is no way of salvation, according to this lie.
 
People wake up!  Think!  See where this lie puts everyone?  Without any hope in this world, for God kept His truth from all except the ancient Jews.
 
And that included you, Echo, Eric, and all the rest of you who so verhemently teach and believe this hideous  LIE.
 
Let it go on the record that Jo Smith loves and fully believes Jesus and the Holy KJV.  I have a personal relationship with My God and Jesus, not some made up imagenary stuff;  real stuff which most people know not one thing about.  He has done incredible things in my life and for me.  Now this did not come about by any false name like you people advocate.  It came about through the KJV and JESUS.
 
Praise His Holy Name forever.  I worship you and love you, my Jesus.
 
Jo

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Recommend Delete    Message 16 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/9/2003 11:36 PM
Larry, know why all these people are believing this lie of Jesus not being God's Son's name?  Because they refused the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.  Without the H.G. they have not the true interpreter of the Word.
 
Without the H.G. they are none of his.  The refused the wonderful Baptism in water in the Name of Jesus Christ as God the Father commanded us to do, so they never received the promised H.G.
 
So, they did not receive a love for the TRUTH.  God said He would send them all a STRONG DELUSION who receive not the LOVE OF THE TRUTH.
 
That is the TRUTH.  They love not this truth, but rejected God's chosen way of Salvation in the Name of Jesus, so God has sent them all a strong delusion.
 
God said He would choose their delusion.  They refused to be bapized in the Name of Jesus and receive the H.G. so God chose this delusion ~~~ that they cannot believe in the precious true name of JESUS.
 
Without this name being called over them in baptism, they cannot have salvation.  So God chose for them to never believe in this name.
 
He said they would  BELIEVE   A   LIE.  AND  BE DAMNED.  So just believing a thing does not bring salvation; in fact it brings damnation if you believe a lie.  Sure, they believe it with all their heart, but they are believing a LIE TO BE DAMNED.
 
Pityful, but so true.  They are headed to a devil's hell, for they deny God's Son who died for them.
 
Jo

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 Message 6 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:06 PM

The Cult Of The House of Yahweh
The Story Of A Modern Apostate
William B. Hawkins/AKA/Yisrayl B. Hawkins, Founder

Collected From News Reports With Comments
By Cohen G. Reckart, Pastor

Buffalo "Bill" Hawkins
Buffalo "Bill" Hawkins

Mr. Hawkins, claims to be the descendant of a Jewish family that fled Europe because of persecution.  He claims he has spent the last 40 years of his life researching and studying the Scriptures. He began ministering full time in the early 1980s with the establishment of The House of Yahweh.

A recently published book by Yisrayl Hawkins states that he "is a Jew whose family was severely persecuted and forced to flee from Europe to the United States. He was raised without synagogue, but was strictly taught by his Jewish parents, both of whom trace their lineage to the tribe of Levi."

When this passage was read to one of Hawkins' brothers, he sighed before saying, "Bill's my brother, but he ain't got both oars in the water, if you know what I mean. Our daddy was a Dutchman, our mother was three-quarters Cherokee, and we don't have a drop of Jewish blood in us."

In 1952 eighteen-year-old Bill Hawkins and a woman named Rosa Bell Boulding married in Muskogee, Oklahoma and soon relocated to Enid. A year later Rosa Bell moved out. Hawkins would later say that his wife had cheated on him, but relatives remember that it was he who had violated his marriage bt breaking the seventh commandment. His doctrine on polygamy would arise out of a need for self justification for later acts of adultery and fornication. The new woman, a Native American named Darlene, moved in and bore him four children. Hawkins introduced Darlene to others as his wife and told his children that the reason there were no wedding pictures was because he and their mother had eloped. Many years later--after one of his children caught him in bed having sex with yet a third woman, his wife Darlene moved or was kicked out with her four children. Darlene later told her children that she and Hawkins were married in Mexico. Regardless of which account is true, Bill Hawkins had not yet divorced his first wife, Rosa Bell, and would not file against her until 1976, four years after his second wife(?) left him. When this was pointed out to Hawkins by a reporter, he is reported to have said: "Rosa Bell had actually divorced him long before this, in California." "That's what she told my dad in a phone call" Hawkins said. None of Hawkins' relatives ever remember hearing of such a conversation, and in any case, his own attorney could find no record of Rosa Bell's filing for divorce in any courthouse in either California or Oklahoma. By filing for divorce himself, Hawkins was legally acknowledging that he had been married to Rosa Bell throughout his marriage to Darlene, a clear cut case of being married to two women at the same time and tells us why he then adopted his Old Testament doctrine of polygamy.  He could NEVER be a New Testament Deacon, Elder, or Bishop, since these prohibited sexual immorality and specifically polygamy (husband of one wife), but if he became an Old Testament Law-keeper, a Levite, and observed the ancient traditions of the Jews, he we are sure reasoned that he could have as many wives as he wanted and no one could condemn him or take away his claim to be a man of God.

As of December 2000, Yisrayl B. Hawkins remains the self-made leader of his Yahweh cult named "House of Yahweh" near Abilene, Texas. He was an Abilene policeman for nine years and known by other officers as Buffalo Bill Hawkins.  He started his own Old Testament-based religious cult back around 1980 after spliting off of his brother's Church when they could not agree on the pronounciation of the tetragrammaton.  He believes the name of Jesus is a pagan name that came from Zeus and has often said to call the name Jesus the "pig-god name." He believes the correct name of Jesus is "Yahshua" although he has never proved this name was ever used in over 1900 years of Church history and previous to that, over 1600 years of Jewish history.  He believes that all the world is obligated to observe and keep the 613 precepts of the Laws of Moses.  He is an avowed Concision, a Law-keeper, and beleives salvation is by works and human merits of the Law.  His Statement of Doctrine reveals he believes that observing the Law brings salvation (escape of divine judgment), justification (perfection by law observance), and sanctification (holiness).  Whatever his claims, he does not believe in superiority of the New Covenant over the Old, and subsequently denies the finished work of Calvary and salvation by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).

The House of Yahweh was first organized by William's older brother Jacob Hawkins. He never claimed to be Jewish, just an average American with a love for Israel.  According to reports he went to Israel in 1967 and stayed seven years working on a kibbutz. While there, he heard of an archeological discovery of a 1st century building that had "House of Yahweh" (in Hebrew) over the entrance. He believed that this was the name of a Christian Church group specially selected in ancient times by God. He decided around 1974 to return to the US and to build a sanctuary in Odessa TX with that name.

His members worshiped Yahweh (Elohim) and Yahshua, two personalities deemed equally to be a separate God. They were Law-keepers and Sabbatarians; that is, they believe worship of Christ on Sunday was pagan and so held religious services on Saturday. As Law keepers they commenced to celebrate the three main Jewish festivals of Passover, Pentecost, and Feast of Tabernacles. Hawkins taught that Yahshua's shed blood cleanses believers from sin, but only if they also adhere to the 613 commandments of the Law.  Both Hawkins brothers believe that if a person seeks as the Apostle Paul taught, to be justified without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28), that these cannot have the cleansing of the shed blood of Jesus.

We are told that the cult styles itself after 12 disciples (12 Elders) with Hawkins being #13 or the representative of Christ. At one time they published a periodical entitled "The Prophetic Watchman." According to cult sources in the Hawkins group, they do not keep membership records, but reported (in 1980) congregations in the US, Israel, India, South Africa, West Africa, Burma, Australian and Belgium.  In 1997 they claimed a mailing list of over 30,000 with over 2,500 members in America.

Following the death of Jacob, the group in Odessa became defunct and the one started in Abilene by his brother William rose to power.

William went to the court house and changed his name to Yisrayl Hawkins so he and his brother could seem to qualify as the two witnesses. We are not certain at this writing if the two brothers ever came to an agreement on pronounciation of the tetragrammaton. The brothers had disagreed strongly over the proper name for God and how it was to be pronounced. With Jacob dead from cancer, William or Yisrayl became the self-appointed prophet and High Priest of the House of Yahweh and surrounded himself with his chosen 12 elders.  According to reports he also ordained more as male and female deacons. They celebrate the various Jewish feast days specified in Leviticus 23. They also celebrate two additional feasts: "Yahshua's Memorial" and "Last Great Day" (what ever that is). At these conclaves they boast attendance between 1,000-1500.  Neighbors complain about the stampede through their neighborhood to the 40 acre site and of health hazards with house trailers with no septic tank connections. They reported at one time to reporters that they have seven congregations served by 35 ministers. In 1999 they had between 100-200 followers living at their headquarters compound in Abilene.

While Hawkins is a definite apostate, we do recognize he does have some good qualities.  It is these that attracts followers to him.  He is very persuasive and lords over the ignorance of others with all sorts of illogical and twisted theology.  He traps them by convincing them they are standing against paganism and the Catholic Church.  Believing they should be holy and having been raised in law-keeping incubator churches (ones that teach only the ceremonial law was abolished), these are ripe for the picking.  They are first led to observe the sabbath.  Then they are led to observe dietary laws.  Then they are led to observe all the law.  Then they are led to believe Yawheh is the true discovered lost name of God taken from the tetragrammaton.  Then they are led to recant the name of Jesus and receive another name, that of Yahshua.  Then they call the name of Jesus the "pig-god name" or the "J-name."  This is all done with the help of Hawkins own Bible where Yahweh is interpolated into the text as well as the name Yahshua.  After this they believe polygamy is a Biblical right of all men.

According to news reports Hawkins has association with white-racist extreme anti-government groups. According to information provided by Hawkins, he was a follower and believer in Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God and followed his doctrine on law-keeping before starting his own cult group with his brother Jacob.  Both William and Jacob claimed to be the two witnesses of John's Revelation. Jacob has died and it did not happen in Jerusalem or Israel as the prophecy speaks of the two witnesses.  William remains as the leader of the cult.  He changed his name from William to that of Yisrayl in an attempt to give himself some sort of name baptism into his brand of Pharisee Judaism. Claiming to be an expert in both the Paleo-Hebrew and Aramaic/Babylonian languages, Hawkins claims "Yahweh" is the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton YHWH or YHVH.  He claims also that the name "Jesus" comes from the Greek god Zeus and the correct name of the Saviour is "Yahshua." With law-keeping as his doctrine of salvation, the two sacred names Yahweh and Yahshua, and his hatred for the name of Jesus, Hawkins claims he alone has the sacred calling to establish the House of Yahweh.  All other Yahweh movements who have stolen from him his doctrine, he claims are false.

Hawkins requires also for salvation, the essentiality that each member pay to him three tithes of 10% each for a total of 30% of their income.  It is believed he has collected millions of dollars from donations as well as thousands of dollars in food stamps he allegedly made members put into special offering envelops.

Members of the cult as well as ex-members, claim that Hawkins has made several prophecies that did not come to pass. The main one was his following Pentecostal prophet Irwin Baxter of the UPC who predicted that the Arafat/Israel peace treaty in 1993 was the beginning of the seven years of tribulation and Jesus would return no later than October 2000.  When his prophecy failed and the seals, trumpets, and vials were not fulfilled and two thirds of the world was not destroyed, Hawkins began to yodle another prophecy. That of rebuilding the third temple before Jesus could return.  So now he wants to help Jesus come back, and somewhat like Julian the Apostate he wants to try his hand at rebuilding the temple on Mount Moriah. Although he continues to change his doctrines and his prophecies, his followers look upon him as the "anointed one."  Some ex-members believe that if Hawkins ask his followers to kill themselves they would do it out of devotion to him (Cool-Aid cowboy mentality of Jim Jones all over again).

Hawkins has preached in 1997 that the world will end in nuclear holocaust in October 2000. But in 1999, Shaul Hawkins, the founder's son, and an elder in the House of Yahweh cult, predicted the end of the world will be in the next three or four years.  We assume he is speaking from his father's doctrine here because no elder is allowed to have a different view of prophecy that William Hawkins does not teach.

One of the earmarks of a cult group like that which Hawkin's heads, is that the followers will continue to believe in their leader although he may change his doctrine and teachings continually.  Some Yahweh cults hate Jews and blacks and other races and claim the white anglo-saxon races descending from the tribes of Manassah and Ephraim are the true Israel (Armstrong's British-Israelism heresy).  Other Yawheh cults accept black members because they are good tithe payers and devout to white leaders wanting themselves to some day be elevated to be one of Yahweh's Ministers or elders.

Yahweh cults are not all alike.  There are trinitarian Yawheh cults, two-god Yahweh cults, and even Oneness Yahweh cults.  When any cult says the name of the Father is Yahweh and the name of his Son is Yahshua, and elevates the name Yahweh above the name Yahshua, this groups believes in at least two gods regardless of what they might otherwise say in their statements of doctrine.  In speaking to one of these cult leaders, he expressly stated that when the saved get to heaven they will see all three gods separate and distinct: a person will see the Father as Yahweh and they will also see the Son there as Yahshua.  He would not tell me how we would see the Holy Ghost, whether in the form of a bird, a flame of fire, or as another angelic or human form.

The unsolved murder of a reported one-time Hawkins-Yahweh follower of four years ago in South Carolina still hangs over the cult group. David Richardson who has a wife and daughter under the control of Hawkin's, whom he has been trying to get out, claims that the Yawheh compound near Eula, Texas is surrounded by barb wire with cult members standing guard at the entrance with walkie-talkies looking like a Gestapo unit?  Richardson claims that his wife Bonnie has changed her name to Biynyah Hawkins after the cult's leader.  The news media claims that records at the Taylor County court house shows that since 1994 over 300 other cult members have changed their last names to Hawkins.

The House of Yawheh claims to have a mailing list of over 30,000 with membership nation wide of over 2,500.  Many of these are also members of other Yahweh cult groups in Pennsylvania, Missouri, and Georgia.  These "faithful" law-keeping members call themselves the "Sacred Name (SN)" and "Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM)."  All of them teach a man must wear a beard, some believe it cannot be trimmed while others claim it can. 

The daughter of Hawkins, Margo (Hawkins) Corneillie, claims her father treated she and her husband the same as that shown others who began to disagree with him, her story is more poignant.  "I used to call him 'Dad,'" she said. That was before she noticed that her father's teachings began to change dramatically. When she and her husband started pointing out things they disagreed with, both were ex-communicated by form letter.  "When you question it, you're labeled as a rebel," she said.  She said originally her father's teachings were pure. But something happened and he grew paranoid, corrupt and power hungry, she said.  "When Yisrayl started hungering for the power, the focus was taken off the Kingdom and placed on the man," Corneillie said. "His goal is to become a god."

One of the identifying marks of a cult is its connection to other know cults.  Yahweh cults such as the Heaven's Gate group in California, the Israel Identity movement, David Koresh in Waco, and Jim Jones, shows us that there is more to these religious groups than just a religious difference of opinions.  These groups place upon themselves the obligation to die for the names Yahweh and Yahshua.  And when Law-keeping is added to the sacred name doctrine, the group in following their cult leader's advice are willing and ready to die if anyone attempts to remove them from their new religion.  This establishes the danger of the cult influence.

Newsweek magazine, in covering doomsday cults reported that among Hawkin's group in Abilene many hundreds have pierced their ears as a sign of being a slave or servant to Yahweh and Hawkins.  This sign of loyalty can now be seen on many cult members."

For the nine years Buffalo Bill Hawkins led a steady if undistinguished career as an Abilene cop, and spiritually he was at a low ebb. Though he still took his family to church on Saturday mornings, Hawkins worked on religious holidays and spent his off-hours raising coonhounds, operating a mobile home park--which his wife was not even aware that he owned--and making homemade wine. When Darlene was due to have their last daughter, Officer Hawkins simply dropped her off at the hospital on the way to the station and told her to call when the baby was born. Often irritable, he frequently beat Darlene in the presence of his kinfolk. One of his daughters remembered how he reacted when she and her sister burned the potatoes one evening: "He threw them against the wall and made us go to our rooms. Then he came in with a wire hangar and whipped our legs till they bled. And then he pulled off his belt and whipped us some more."

After Darlene learned in 1972 that Hawkins had slept with another woman, it occurred to her that she had given her life and her money to a remorseless cad, so she and their children moved back to Oklahoma. Less than a year later Hawkins took  up fornicating with a woman named Kay who lived in his trailer park, and together they had a bastard child out of wedlock.  Kay was to later learn she said that Hawkins had a habit of plucking other women out and giving them favors denied to others, insinuating that he was fornicating with all of them. How many were the wives of other men at the compound or wives or men he had kicked out is unknown. How many were young girls we do not know. Eventually the whole story of Hawkins will be known and his House of Yahweh, like the pagan houses of Yahweh of ancient cultures will be demolished.

Kay Hawkins claims it was when her husband began preaching that a man could have many wives (polygamy), she says she smelled a rat and saw her husband as a fraud. This is interesting since some claim she is the harlot with whom Hawkins was fornicating when he was caught and Darlene left him. Kay's first child is proof of Hawkin's adultery and fornication. Kay also admits she helped doing much of her husband's research giving him ideas on scripture interpretation and writings for him, believing she was married to one of Yahweh's two holy messengers. "This man is not the man I thought I knew," she said. She said she even learned a few things about her former husband, chiefly that his family despises him. His late brother, Jacob, who led a House of Yahweh congregation in Odessa, allegedly wrote his sibling was "deliberately deceiving" followers. And the magazine quotes a brother-in-law calling Hawkins one of the world's biggest liars. "When 2000 comes and it's a bright and sunny day ... he'll change his story like he has before," she said. "In the Bible, the Messiah says, 'No man knows the day or hour, not the Son of Man, but my Father only.' He's put his foot in his mouth this time."

Then, speaking of rampant sexual immorality, Hawkins had the nerve to say the following:

"And as hard as it is to BELIEVE, an estimated 2,000 ISRAYLI women--who are HBV CARRIERS--give birth each year! Many of their infants will become HBV carriers themselves. The estimate for HBV carriers is even higher in other nations.  Isn't it TIME we wake up to the FACT that we NEED to start PUBLISHING THE LAWS OF Yahweh TO ALL Nations? Isn't it TIME TO PROCLAIM these Laws of PREVENTION, in order to STEM the flow of death and suffering that the BREAKING OF THESE LAWS CAUSE? Isn't it TIME to bring these LAWS FORTH, making THEM the first line of defense against these diseases, rather than allowing LAWBREAKERS to teach IGNORANT PEOPLE to "USE CONDOMS"?

Child custody cases have mounted in connection to Hawkins and his Abilene compound.

Lynn Johnson can speak from personal experience. Her son, Mark, was married and the father of a 5-year-old girl when his wife came into contact with the House of Yahweh.

Mark and his family lived in the Jacksonville, Fla., suburb of Orange Park and were members of a Baptist church. A couple who were friends found the House of Yahweh on the Internet and became interested in its teachings, Lynn Johnson said.

Her son's wife was interested, too, and accompanied the couple to Abilene for one of the three annual feasts celebrated at the compound in Callahan County.  "It was a surprise when all of a sudden she had a whole new Bible and way of life," Johnson said.

Eventually the oddity took a chilling turn. Johnson began researching and came across Hawkins' book, Reconsidering Yahweh's Laws on Slavery and Marriage Obligations.

She was stunned to learn what happens to women who go to the compound unattended by their husbands. "She had to be wife, slave, or concubine to a group member," Johnson said.

The Boston Jewish Times on april 10, 1997 reported that three men were in Israel to give advice on building the third temple with peaceful solutions. The three men are Yisrayl and Shaul Hawkins--both from Texas, and David Hawkins from Wisconsin. All three call themselves "Elders of the House of Yahweh," an organization they founded in 1982, which is based upon strict observance of all the laws of Noah. They claim to have 10,000 members today.

By claiming to observe the laws of Noah, Hawkins, his son, and his cohort were making themselves Gentile adherents to the Seven Laws of Noahach, a subset of Laws the Pharisees concocted to enforce upon Gentile converts.  These laws of Noahach are called the Noahide laws and are first found in the Babylonian Talmud. Claiming 10,000 members, Hawkins was in fact claiming that the Talmudic Jews could count on this entire number of followers to be loyal to Israel in spite of the fact that he believed in Jesus as Yahshua and the Jews still considered Jesus a false Messiah with an illegitimate birth whose bastard blood could not save himself let alone others.  Which is it, is Hawkins a real Jew or a Gentile Noahide non-Christian convert to Pharisee Judaism?  All Talmudic practicing Jews I have ever met claim that a true Noahide who keeps the Seven Laws of Noahach, DO NOT CONFESS FAITH IN OR BELIEVE IN JESUS AS THE MESSIAH EVEN IF HIS NAME IS CHANGED TO YAHSHUA OR YESHUA.  If Hawkins made the claim he was a NOAHIDE, then regardless if he uses the name Jesus or Yahshua he has recanted the person of the Messiah to receive favor from modern Pharisees. It is quite obvious that Hawkins and his rants that the world must have faith in Yahweh has long ago lost the message of the New Testament that teaches sole faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

What is Hawkins up to now?  He is on a campaign to stir up interest to rebuild the third temple.  Since at least 1997 he has made several trips each year to Israel to talk to Jewish and Arab leaders.  Hawkins masquerades as a Jew and claims his family name in Germany was Ha-Cohen but was changed to Hawkins to escape Nazi persecution.  

In the photograph on the left Hawkins put on the synagogue hat of the Pharisees and began interviews with Rabbis and other Jewish leaders.  His "Peaceful Solution" to build the third temple was to place it due west of the present Golden Gate and north of the Dome of the Rock.  His alleged Engineer David Mrotek is a white racist  who was a member of the Yahweh group Posse Comitatus.  They have created a mock model of the third temple and superimposed it upon the temple mount to show that the Dome of the Rock is not located on the actual temple mount and holy of holies area.  Hawkins is hailed as a historian and claims to be an expert on the Hebrew language.  When asked by one doubter to say "hot dog" in Hebrew Hawkins did not know how.  We know two thing for certain, his claim the Yahweh is the name of God is bogus and false regardless if there are several resources Jewish and Gentile who support his theory.  And second, we know his claim that the name Jesus is pagan and comes from Zeus is bogus and false.

Our deduction is that Hawkins is the founder of a cult.  His followers are deceived and believe him to be a prophet and an anointed one in whom there is no error.  The deception that binds them together is the names Yawheh and Yahshua and Law keeping.  If these can be proved wrong to these otherwise perhaps good people, then maybe, just maybe, they can be delivered and set free from the bondage of this cult and the cult leader.  As long as there are ignorant men and women who will not take a stand against the abuse and hate against the name of Jesus, cult groups like these will continue to brainwash good people and lead them into mental slavery and then perhaps as sex slaves to someone's adultery or fornication addiction.

Pastor Reckart

Testimonies of deliverance:

Greetings in the name of the Almighty Father, Ruler of heaven and earth;

I would like to first introduce myself. My name is Mrs. Green. I am the former (thank-God,) Kushiyah Hawkins.

I usually do not respond to letters or letters of information, mainly because it brings back some very painful memories of the past. Let me first say that I was a member of the house of Yahweh in Abilene Texas for about 4 years. From September 1995 to December 1999. And that was 4 years too much. I am grateful to the teachings of my early years that brought me to my sences in time. Although I lost my husband at the time, The Lord has blessed me and the latter state is greater than the beginning. And know I continue to give thanks and to God be the Glory.

I do not know if you are doing any other articles on The H.O.Y as it is called, But if you need any truths about that particular cult and its practices, Please do not hesitate to contact me. I pray that you will continue in your crusade for truth. Continue to educate the people. Truth is power over the enemy (Satan).

Now to who is able to keep us from falling, May God bless you is my sincere prayer;

Sincerly Mrs. Green



Reply
 Message 7 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:08 PM
ply
Recommend Delete    Message 19 of 47 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameLolady·</NOBR> Sent: 10/12/2003 7:32 AM

Thank you Isaiah,

Great Read!  Very interesting!!




 


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Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 20 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/12/2003 9:23 AM
Thank you lolady, jump in here and let's defeat this evil together. Hope you are doing better.

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 21 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/12/2003 10:52 PM
 
If you are trying to come up with reasons not to believe the name of the Creator, and using this guy to do it.
 The list of Jesus clowns go all the way back to the 1500's.
Just because you don't believe, means nothing.
All over the world they say Jesus and it means nothing at best.[eric]

Eric, be not deceived, God is not mocked.  What you sow that you will also reap.
 
Thank God I will not be in your shoes when your reaping day comes.
 
Hell awaits you big time.  God has chosen your delusion.
 
Again, show us your proof. Show us the Book you get all this out of.  Is it born inside you.  How are we to know?
Where is your history proof?  Where is your Scripture.  You speak of Scripture in one post; condemn it in others.
 
which is it?
Jo

Reply
 Message 8 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:09 PM
Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 22 of 47 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSearERIC</NOBR> Sent: 10/13/2003 12:49 AM
Jo, did you ever research Church?  When did it appear in the bible?  [KJV]
Did you take a look in your Dictonary, for Yahweh, Elohim, or Yahshua ?
Before you send me to hell, give me a fair trial.  When you read this, pick up your bible, turn to Romans 1:19-20;  John 14 :18-20...  This should tell you, by whose Authority I speak.
 
Peace!


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Recommend Delete    Message 23 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/13/2003 3:20 PM
 
Eric where is your god Yaaaa- hooooooooo ? Is he a god of wood and stone? Does he not speak? Does he not hear? Does he not see? Tell your god ( Yaaaa- hooooooooo) we need to hear from him about this matter of what to call his name. Tell him we need to see "It is Written". Or is he the work of men's hand made of wood and stone which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell? Has your god ( Yaaaa- hooooooooo) hid his face from you?
 
 Where is your god in whom you trust? I have seen that he has not spoken to us. Have we provoked him to anger that he can not speak? Have we been a thorn in his side or a snare that he will not speak. Pray tell us Eric. Has your god ( Yaaaa- hooooooooo) forsaken you? Why would we want to serve yur god that has forsaken you when our God ( Jesus) said he would never forsake us and leave us? Pray tell us What aileth your god? Where is the god of eric? Are you your own witness? Have you made yourself a god ? Pray tell us. Is your god deaf and dumb? Cry out to him to speak to us and for him to tell us that his name is Yaaaa- hooooooooo or Boooooo---- boooooooo or hoooooooo------ hhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooo or what.
 
Are you serving a god of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know? Does he not care for you or love you? My God said he so loved the world that whosoever beliveth in his shall not perish but have everlasting life. Does your god promise that? I persume not because we see nowhere he has even said anything about himself. Eric where is your god Yaaaa- hooooooooo? 
 
Eric I think I had rather serve my God that can speak hear and see, talk,smell anything that he wants and I also see where he is going to destroy your god and all other gods that come before him. You might just want to reconsider and repent and call on the name of my God ( Jesus) and he will and can forgive. Can your god Yaaaa- hooooooooo forgive sins? I don't think a god of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know can do that? Repent today.

Reply
 Message 9 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:14 PM
Recommend Delete    Message 24 of 47 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSearERIC</NOBR> Sent: 10/13/2003 5:29 PM
You are such a PAGAN. I told you where Yahweh is, I even gave you scripture. Your jesus is a fake and you know it. If you were about truth we would be about more knowledge, John 16:32-33; Yahweh is not divided as your pagan is, talk about gold and silver, Jesus has it all, look at all the statues you have made of him.
 
You don't see any statues of Yahweh, do you.
You celebrate pagan holidays, there is no scripture for.
You won't find Eric making a chump out of himself over a pagan program.
 
PEACE!


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Recommend Delete    Message 25 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/13/2003 11:10 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSearERIC</NOBR> Sent: 10/13/2003 5:29 PM
You are such a PAGAN. I told you where Yahweh is, I even gave you scripture. Your jesus is a fake and you know it. If you were about truth we would be about more knowledge, John 16:32-33; Yahweh is not divided as your pagan is, talk about gold and silver, Jesus has it all, look at all the statues you have made of him.
 
You don't see any statues of Yahweh, do you.
You celebrate pagan holidays, there is no scripture for.
You won't find Eric making a chump out of himself over a pagan program.

Eric, what Bible is that supposed to be read in?  You told me to read a passage in the Scripture...but what Scripture? That is what I asked you, what book is this supposed to be in?  How am I to read it since I only read the KJV which you have denounced as evil, corrupted and told us that God did not allow any translations of his word.

You and your twin brother, Echo (probably the same person)--said all translations are corrupt and not true Word of God. so, now you give Scripture referrences for me to read--- but I cannot read Hebrew, which you claim is the only true word.....so how am I to read it?

How do you read it?  Can you read ancient Hebrew?  Do you have a copy of the original manuscript?  If not, whose word are you taking to say all this mess from?  What is your authority?  You say there it is in Romans 1..... but how do I know the original Manuscript had a Romans in it?  How do I know it had a Paul in it? or a John?   Hey.....J......John?  huh?  there were no  'Js' so there could be no John...just be hun.? 

Which is it?  Huhn 3:16?   No J huh?

No Joel... No Joshua.  etc.  And now you are telling us your authority comes out of John....... in what book?

You are talking to the wrong person about holidays and statues.  Isaiah and I do NOT have a thing to do with them and you know it.  We teach against this evil. Where do you teach against it?

By the way CHURCH is all over the Word of God.  And I am part of Jesus' true Church and your twisted up mind cannot change it.

Jesus will put you into hell.


Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 26 of 47 in Discussion 
From: joie Sent: 10/13/2003 11:21 PM
By the way, Echo...opps, meant Eric,
 
They say the original Hebrew did not have chapters and verses, so how is it that you quote from a chapter and verse?  Is you is or is you not going by the original Book?  Tell us plainly,  where is your authority to denounce the Son of God and His Church as pagan idols?
 
Where is your authority?  What Book?  Tell me;  don't tell me to go read John,  for there could be no John in the first book.  It must be hun.

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 27 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/13/2003 11:27 PM
joie it is suppose to rhyme hunn- yuann or yohn-hohn. Poet and don't know it make a rhyme everytime.  

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 28 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/14/2003 12:11 AM
You are such a PAGAN. I told you where Yahweh is, I even gave you scripture. Your jesus is a fake and you know it. If you were about truth we would be about more knowledge, John 16:32-33; ( Eric) 
In what book is this supposed to be in Eric? Surely not the KJV that you said was dead. Do you have a yoo- hoo or boo-boo book. If so post it here for us to read or is it in Hebrew. Where is your book from? Surely you are not talking about John? Because you have stated that the 'J' was left out of the Hebrew book. O, was you talking aboot Yohn, well if SO the KJV MUSTA LEFT THAT ONE OUT. I See it not. Surely you can copy and paste it for us to see what you are wanting us to look at. Would you be so kind to do that fer us?        

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 29 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/14/2003 12:19 AM
Do you know Him today.
Do not turn Him away.
Oh Jesus, oh Jesus.
Without Him how lost I would be.

Without Him I could do nothing.
Without Him I would surely fail.
Without Him I would be drifting.
Like a ship without a sail.

Do you know Him today.
Do not turn Him away.
Oh Jesus, oh Jesus.
Without Him how lost I would be.

Without Him I would be dying.
Without Him I'd be enslaved.
Without Him I would be hopeless.
But with Jesus, thank God, I am saved.

Do you know Hime today.
Do not turn Him away.
Oh Jesus, oh Jesus.
Without Him I could do nothing.
But with Him I am saved.

Reply
Recommend Delete    Message 30 of 47 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSearERIC</NOBR> Sent: 10/14/2003 12:48 AM
I will not waste my time reading it for you.  You need to come to a profound knowledge and understanding of Yahweh and where He is.  I don't, He has showed me, and you don't want me to show you, too bad for you!  KJV John 16: 32-33. 
 
You keep avoiding proving anything, just asking childish questions.  You remind me of the school yard bum, thought by screaming his head off, he was right, no wonder there is no peace in your life, all that screaming and saying nothing, boo-hoo, what is that, wisdom? Yiiikes
 
Peace!


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Recommend Delete    Message 31 of 47 in Discussion 
From: Isaiah Sent: 10/14/2003 12:57 AM
I am not the one asking foolish questions you are the one giving foolish answers. One time you say the KJV is corrupt and dead and one time you tell me to go to the KJV for an answer. I ask you question to try to see what you can answer with. I thought yahew might have a special bible for yall folks that you could quote from. Yet you have not showed me any thing, but all you have done is send me to The KJV which you say is corrupt. Prove your god if you can.


Reply
 Message 10 of 18 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 11/28/2006 7:16 PM
Freeborn, I was sure I posted these mesages, maybe not,. or someone deleted these, and that is probaly what has happened.  

Reply
 Message 11 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/29/2006 1:05 AM
Isaiah,  I really thought you had also.  Guess they did get deleted.  Maybe our imposter deleted this thread from a speacial board before I put joie out.
 
I sure  remember you setting up a board for this.  but it was gone.

Reply
 Message 12 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 11/29/2006 3:45 PM
Ike do you have any teeth ? I mean physcial or spiritual.
 
Eric


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 Message 13 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 11/29/2006 3:50 PM
Reply # 7
 
Isaiah I thought you knew, I am the book!  Isaiah do you remember when you were sick, I told Jo to tell you to get up and lean on your own faith, and she said that she had told you the same thing, anyway not a week later you were back here trying to battle me, and losing as usual, now I want you to remember, that I still have my SWITCH !  Better behave!
 
Eric


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 Message 14 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/29/2006 4:10 PM
Happy birthday to you.  Have a great day, and don't go getting too wrapped up in that switch.  lol.
 
Your honey bunny.
little ole me

Reply
 Message 15 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 11/29/2006 4:30 PM
Ike I know that you do not mean to be disobedient to your DADDY, but regardless, I will take a SWITCH to you for lying, now, go wash out your mouth with soap and sit in the corner until me and your MOMMA [ JO ], tell you to come out.
I give someone the advice to do some research and here you come out with some old stuff, because you do not have the know how to research and learn for yourself, all you do is recycle some ol time religion, the Messiah told you what you can do with ur religion, I am with him.
 
Eric


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 Message 16 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAxs2-381Sent: 5/17/2007 4:25 AM
WELL, WELL, EAR WE GO AGAIN

Reply
 Message 17 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/1/2008 1:13 AM
this is much needed again today.

Reply
 Message 18 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamerollingstone444Sent: 3/4/2008 11:38 PM
The only sacred name we have for Messiah is JESUS CHRIST.  I fully agree with freeborn.

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