MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
ChristianDebates[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  General  
  Welcome!  
  What We Believe  
  Site Rules  
  All Topics  
  Messages  
  Group Mailboxes  
  Cattag Offers  
  Cattag Pickups  
  Computer Help  
  MWBC  
  Christian Debates Banners  
  Bible Reading  
  Bible Study Links  
  Members' Studies  
  Prayer Needed  
  Devotionals  
  Please Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem  
  E-mail Stories  
    
    
  Links  
  Pictures  
  Christian RADIO - Listen as you read  
  Member's Links  
  Poems by Doz  
  Heresies in History  
  Fonts  
  To MgrSite  
  Bible Trivia  
  
  
  Tools  
 
Members' Studies : Daniel 7, Judgment and KIngdom
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 1 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameEJM_Missouri  (Original Message)Sent: 10/4/2008 10:50 PM

Daniel 7, Judgment & Kingdom

Summary so far

It is now time to wrap up Daniel 7 and bring it to a conclusion. So far in Daniel we have seen in beastly symbols the rise and fall of empires outlining the history of the world. Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, with Rome fragmenting with the rise of the ten barbarian kingdoms represented by ten horns coming out of the 4th beast. And at the last we saw another “little horn�?rise up among the other ten, uprooting three of those ten in the process. A “little horn�?that in time would grow to be greater than any of the other ten. A “little horn�?that, once unleashed, would with its new found greatness make war on and persecute the true saints of God for a “time, times and the dividing of times.�?/FONT>

Daniel 7:8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

We have also seen how the papacy answers in every respect to the “little horn�?of Daniel 7. We have examined its rise to power, watching as it overthrew three kingdoms, speaking blasphemies and making war with and persecuting the saints for some 1260 years before receiving a deadly wound that quite literally snuffed out the very existence of the papacy for a time. But as Revelation 13 indicated the papacy was resurrected, literally brought back from the dead, and that wound began to heal. And we saw how with the healing the entire world is even now beginning to wonder after the beast.

The Ancient of Days

At this point the focus of the prophecy suddenly shifts from the events happening on earth to events happening in heaven. Daniel’s attention is directed upward, and he sees thrones being place in preparation for the judgment. And One who is “the Ancient of Days,�?who can be none other than God the Father, is seated and the books are opened.

Daniel 7:9 "I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened.

Yet, even as the Ancient of Days was being seated, even as the books were being opened, Daniel is distracted and his attention turned earthward once again by the continued and persistent speaking of pompous and boastful words by the little horn.

Daniel 7:11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame.

In the explanatory portion of the prophecy we read:

Daniel 7:21 "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 "until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Daniel7:26 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. �?

Two dimensions of divine judgment, one positive and one negative is expressed in these verses. The judgment is pronounced “in favor of the saints of the Most High�?(verse 22) on one hand, and against their enemies on the other. A negative judgment against the little horn, and a positive judgment for the saints.

His attention turned to earth, Daniel is permitted to see the final end of the beast and of the little horn. He saw that as the result of the judgment they were to be cast into the fire, consumed and destroyed forever. He was also permitted to see the final salvation of God’s oppressed and persecuted saint as they receive the kingdom.

Revelation 13 again; The Amalgamated Beast

But after speaking of how the fourth beast would be “given to the burning flame�?in verse 11, Daniel goes on to make a statement that clears up a mystery in Revelation. He says:

Daniel 7:12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

We have already noted how the dragon beast in Revelation 13 appears to be an amalgamation of the four beast in Daniel 7. In quick review, take another quick look at Revelation 13. Just the first 2 verses.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

We have already noted in previous postings how the beasts of Daniel 7 and this beast in Revelation 13 had similar origins, coming up out of the sea. But note the description of this beast in Revelation.

Going backwards from the fourth unnamed beast in Daniel 7, we have a leopard, a bear, and a lion. This beast in Revelation is like a LEOPARD, had the feet of a BEAR, and the mouth of a LION.

But that is not all. If you count the heads of the four beasts of Daniel 7 -- How many do you have? The lion, the bear, and the fourth beast each had one head. The leopard had four, for a total of seven heads. How many heads does the beast in Revelation 13 have? Seven. And how many horns? Of all the beasts In Daniel 7, only the fourth beast had any horns and it had ten of them. How many horns does this beast in Revelation 13 have? Ten.

These similarities between the four beasts in Daniel 7 and this beast in Revelation 13 are not accidental. The vision of Daniel 7 and that of Revelation 13 are related. Daniel and John are both given a view of the same thing. Only one is looking at it from a different historical perspective than the other. What Daniel sees as four separate beasts, John sees as one. An amalgamation of Daniel’s four.

But how can this be? Daniel 7:12 tells us.

Speaking of the first three beasts, Daniel writes: “Their dominion�?was “taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.�?The territory and subjects and culture of the Babylonian kingdom still existed, though made subject to the Persians. So with the Persians kingdom in respect to Greece, and Greece in respect to Rome.

And so the lion was merged into the bear, and the bear into the leopard, and the leopard into the fourth beast. But the fourth beast does not merely have its dominion taken away, it is slain. It’s career ends in the lake of fire. There is no successor beast to the 4th beast. It is the last in the line. And so while in a manner of speaking each of the proceeding three beasts lived on in their successors, it all terminates with the 4th beast.

And by the way, lest you put a too narrow definition on the fourth beast as Rome; remember the ten horns of this beast are also part of the beast. They do not exist independently of it. Rome is represented here in its two phases: first as a single united empire, and second as a divided empire -- but both phases are of the same beast.

Some visible examples of this amalgamation -- The 60 seconds that make up a minute. The 60 minutes that make up an hour, The 24 hours that make up a day are all Babylonian influences in our lives today - remnants of their base 60 numerical system. And the New Age movement; it is nothing more than a modern day repackaging of the mystics arts and sciences of the Babylonian wise men. Likewise Persia and Greece have left their mark on our present day world.

And so in Revelation 13 we find this beast made up of bits and pieces of all these other beasts that are now gone, and yet which in a manner of speaking, live on.

“the Son of Man�?/STRONG>

Having witnessed the end of the beast and its horns, Daniel’s attention once more returns to heaven and his interrupted vision of the judgment. The Ancient of Days having been seated, Daniel now sees a second figure, “One like the Son of Man.�?And this can be none other than Jesus. Indeed, Jesus referred to himself as the “Son of man�?some 40 times in the gospels. It is the title that he used more than any other to refer to himself, and it comes directly from this passage in Daniel.

Daniel 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.

Now here is a question for you. Who is the Judge? In Daniel 7:9-14, after saying that “the court was seated and the books were opened�?/FONT> and before saying that “One like the Son of Man �?came to the Ancient of Days�?/FONT> Daniel mentions that he saw the beast slain and its body destroyed. So who judged the beast?

The Bible tells us in John 5:22 that “the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the son.�?/FONT> How then can the Father be the judge and yet not judge anybody? Acts 17:30 solves that little mystery easily enough. It says; “God �?has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.�?/FONT> And so, the Father is the Judge, but in His capacity as judge He has chosen to delegate the judging to His Son.

And so we read in Romans 14:10; “We shall all appear before the judgment seat of God.�?and in 2 Corinthians 5:10; “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.�?

And so Christ is Advocate, Intercessor, and Judge. How can Christians possibly get a better deal than that?  Is it any wonder then that judgment was made "in favor of the saints" (verse 22)

Daniel 7:14 Then to Him [the Son of Man] was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:26 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.' 28 "This is the end of the account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart

Here is another question for you. Although Daniel 7:14 says that “dominion and glory and kingdom�?are given to the Son of man, Daniel 7:27 says that “the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.�?So then, who really does receive the kingdom? Christ or the saints?

Both of course. Hebrews 1:2 says that God has appointed Jesus to be “heir of all things,�?and Romans 8:15-17 says that when we call God our Father, the Spirit bears witness that we are the children of God, “and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ�?(verse 17).

There is something about these verses that should look familiar to you. Just as Jesus took the title “Son of man�?from verse 13, verse 14 is the Old Testament foundation of one of His kingdom parables. Consider the following, and ask yourself; When does Jesus receive His kingdom?

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 "So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business till I come.' �?15 "And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

And so Daniel 7 concludes with the same event as Daniel 2. The establishment of God’s eternal kingdom on earth.



First  Previous  No Replies  Next  Last