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Members' Studies : T. Warren's Baby-burning Argument Vitiated
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 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKenHamrick  in response to Message 1Sent: 3/26/2008 6:34 PM
(3.) Accountability! (God's law Requires Judgment for Sins)The third problem is accountability! We are all accountable for our sins, and there are no exceptions made by God. None! Man can make all the exceptions that he wants, but in the end, it means nothing! Anyone who sins is accountable for that sin, except Christ be their propitiation.
Not only is it true that God's law requires judgment for sins, but it is just as true that sin requires violation of God's law. Warren characterized the issue as one of making exceptions for sins, but that is not the issue at all. Rather, the issue is whether or not zygotes and "little ones," whom God describes in Deut. 1:39 as not having the knowledge of good or evil, have any sins yet. Anyone who sins is indeed accountable for that sin, but anyone who has not yet sinned in not accountable for what they have not committed.
Ezekiel 18:4
  • "Behold, all Souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the Soul that sinneth, it shall Die!"
There is no exceptions made...
This passage contradicts the idea that Adam's sin is imputed to children. Not only are no exceptions permitted, no transfers are permitted--not even from one generation to the next! God is very specific here: His eternal justice is tied to individual identity, and the individual soul who sins shall die. We know from the context that it is eternal justice, and not physical death, because even the righteous physically die with the wicked. But there is an eternal death at the Judgment. And nowhere here does it indicate that a soul that has not yet personally sinned shall die because of our father, Adam's, sin.
...Even a sin in ignorance is a sin. It too must be atoned for. It is not cast aside as some unaccountable sin. sin is sin, and must be atoned for.

Numbers 15:28
  • And the Priest shall make atonement for the Soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the lord, to make atonement for him. and it shall be forgiven him."
There is no, "sin in ignorance that is unaccountable." It must be atoned for just as any other sin no matter if it is in ignorance or not. Just as our legal system would say today, "ignorance of the law is no excuse", likewise, ignorance of God's law is no excuse! Mercifully, we have Christ our high Priest today who atones for all our sins, whether sins in ignorance or known sins. Those who claim that sins of ignorance in a baby are unaccountable, don't really understand God's righteousness or law at all.
Again, Warren's misconceptions are set up as a straw-man. Advocates of knowledgeable accountability do not claim that a child (or, zygote) sins ignorantly. Rather, we contend that they do not sin at all, because sin (in God's eyes) requires a certain level of understanding of good and evil. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for those who have the capacity to understand it. Go back one verse, to Num. 15:27... "If one person sins unintentionally, he shall offer a female goat a year old for a sin offering." So then, how many infants do you think would line up outside the temple every day, with female goats in tow? If God considered infants to be guilty of unintentional sins, then He would have made provisions in the law for their parents to bring them to the temple for this sacrifice, but He did not. This nonsense is just another example of Warren's misapplication of Scripture. At every point and with every Scripture, Warren seems at first to make a valid point; but then, when it is closely scrutinized, it is shown for the error it is.
It's curious how the proponents of age of accountability make different rules for people at different times in their life. While on the one hand they claim you must accept Christ in order to be Saved, on the other hand they do a 180 degree turn and say, but some don't need to do so, depending on their age. But how accepting Christ can be both a "requirement" for Salvation, and yet not be required for Salvation, is a mystery which they cannot coherently explain. This is the disjointed nature of their teaching." If judgment is required for sin (and it is) then nothing short of judgment will do. And if newborns cannot accept christ, and yet are Saved from their sins, then either accepting Christ is 'a doctrine of men and was never a requirement for Salvation' in the first place, or it is required and newborn babies are never Saved. There is no other option! Praise God, it was never a requirement, God has the Sovereign right to have Mercy and compassion on whoever he wants, regardless if they can't talk, or can't walk, or can't understand. Accepting has nothing to do with it! For God doesn't ask children, He chooses them. God's law requires judgment for sin, so babies who are Saved have had their sins forgiven just as we do. Not by being good, not by accepting, but by God's Sovereign Grace! ..Unmerited favor!
We are conceived in a state of spiritual death, from which only Christ can resurrect us. We are conceived with a sinful nature ("shaped in iniquity"), which only Christ can remedy through rebirth. Not even a zygote comes to the Father except through Christ. This is not to say that Christ excludes these little ones, but rather, it expresses the means whereby all of them are saved. It is admittedly a mystery how exactly God regenerates and redeems the unborn. But it is just as difficult to disprove as to prove. The main force of my argument has been addressed to the main force of the Original Sin advocates' argument, that of the scriptural basis for condemnation from the moment of conception. Traditionally, the idea of an age of accountability has been regarded as based solely on emotion and "common sense," but held in contradiction to the "insurmountable" scriptural evidence for inherited condemnation. While I have not added anything as to exactly how God redeems these little ones, my goal has been to show the error of the claim that Scripture is silent and devoid of any support for their salvation, and defeat the false claim that Scripture teaches their condemnation.
(4.) The way of Salvation!Knowing that God's law requires judgment, we know that Salvation of all people must be by Christ! Therefore, the fourth problem of this age of accountability doctrine is the inconsistency in the way Salvation is obtained. We're all Saved the same way, and yet this doctrines purports that children are Saved a different way. That's Ludicrous! They are not Saved by Age, by understanding, by comprehension, or by being born without sin, they are Saved just as God says. By Grace, through faith, a gift of God! A unmerited gift! It was not by works or non works, but by Grace! Not by being born, but by being born of God! No one gets Saved, but through Christ! And since newborn babies cannot "accept" by their free will, the Father must (as with us all) not only call, but choose, sanctify, and justify, making righteous! All by his sovereign good will and pleasure (as he said), not our own.
God's law requires judgment for those who have violated it; thus, Warren begs the question again by assuming that all people have violated it. How can you admit that adults sin differently from those who are too young to understand (since adults sin knowingly and willfully), and yet have a problem with them being saved differently? Does the Bible not indicate that the will and understanding of an adult is somehow involved in his salvation? Regardless, what exactly the difference in how the two groups are saved is irrelevant to the fact that all of those who have no accountable knowledge are saved in death. If you have some need to demand that both groups be saved in a strictly monergistic way, it still works for my position. The assumption that divine election necessitates that some of these children who die before reaching an accountable understanding not be elect is a false, unproven assumption.
Ephesians 2:8-9
  • "for by Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God:
  • not of works, lest any man should boast."
So either God gave that baby the faith, or that baby is never going to be Saved. But one thing is for sure, a newborn baby cannot have that faith of it's 'own free will' as some misguided souls teach. It is all of God, whether we understand it or not. The same as with everyone who becomes Saved. We simply cannot have two different methods of Salvation.
John 3:16
  • "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting Life."
So how would a pre born or newborn baby "believe" or "have faith?" This is the inconsistency of obtaining salvation by 'age of accountability' standards rather than by Biblical standards. One has got to be wrong. And so again, we know conclusively that there is no requirement to (by free will) accept or (by free will) have faith or (by free will) believe, because that would exclude all newborns. But the truth is much more biblical. And that is that like with Lazarus, God not only called him from the dead, He gave him the ability to respond and the legs to get up from the grave and the strength to come forth. Lazarus didn't have any ability to come of his own free will. He was dead! Likewise all unsaved (Children and older) are dead in trespass and sins. We are raised up not by free will, but by the will of God in Christ, according to God's election. He Called, He Chose, He drew, He Sanctified, He Justified, He Glorified. We can but give thanks and Glory to Him
Of course, Warren assumes that this grace-imparted faith does not involve the adult's free will, but it is not necessarily so. God is able, through His grace, to persuade a man to turn (of his own free will) from self, sin and the world, and embrace Christ in genuine, repentant faith. Since the man would not otherwise do so, it is a gift brought about by faith. But none of this has any bearing on the issue of knowledgeable accountability. How God saves the little ones is a mystery, and I am content to leave it at that, as I am certain that whatever way God does it is correct and right. In this respect, Warren is unnecessarily bringing the free-will debate into this issue.

To be continued...