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| | From:  whirlwindZ1 (Original Message) | Sent: 9/21/2006 3:01 AM |
| Excerpts from conversations of dreamfolk doin' what they do best...interstellar travel in conceptual spaceshipzzSsss....
LucidAngel: if I only read books I totally agreed with I wouldn't read very much! my philosophy is to look at the different points of view, and learn/accept that which is useful. often, the info is useful with some modifications to make it fit into my paradigm, or maybe my paradigm will shift to accept some
new beliefs.
SerpenTina: Speaking of having read the Bible alot, I have done that too - went to a serious Bible study for 3 years, and sometimes I freak people out when I point out Biblical references to reincarnation, stuff like that - in other words sometimes I have more Bible knowledge than they do - very useful. LucidAngel: I can really really relate! Most Christains have never even read the bible. My mom taught me to read by having my very first reader be the bible. She said if I could read the bible, I could read anything, and she was right! I was 5 at the time, I think it took me about a year to get through it back then. Anyway. I used to throw a lot of stuff in people's faces(I am not like that anymore), like about how you should bash the heads of pagan babies against the rocks, stuff like that. Tends to really freak people out. I used to point at my children and say, well, there they are, better do what your told! Talk about shock value. As I said though, I am not that kind of person anymore, I had a lot of anger back then.
SerpenTina: btw have you read 'the Christian Conspiracy'? about the politics that went into the choosing of which books are considered 'the word of God' vs what Jesus the master was really about. very enlightening!
LucidAngel: No, I have never read that specific book, but I know what you are talking about. In my younger years I went way out of my way to study the dark history of Christianity. Having been raised Mormon, I was very angry about my very suppressed upbringing, and studying such things was my rebellion against that upbringing. Now I just don't care, I realize everyone is what they are, and sometimes changing people through enlightenment can destroy them as people. People can only handle what they can handle. SwhirlwindZ: Hi Dreamers, Very profound both of you. Funny, I haven't even read half of the Bible but I'm still able to impress most with my biblical and spiritual knowledge by what I have read of it and reading of Enlightened Non-Christians who really understood GLOBAL SCRIPTURES and had a vantage not limited by a single point of view. The Seth Material (you folks are probably sick of hearing me talk about him LOL!), Yogananda, in his Autobiography of a Yogi. That Hindu, East Indian,Yogi Loved and Understood Jesus as much, if not more more, than anyone who ever lived, LEVI's Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ. It might sound funny or absurd to some of you but although Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath are by No Means enlightened I learned A Lot about Christ from him. And of course from my own inner-sights through spiritual work. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within." Sometimes I wish I had the encyclopedic knowledge both of you have but I've discovered as I'm sure you have that when a person is set in their direction facts only get them upset: "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." Or as a scientific authority once said, "I wouldn't believe in 'ESP' even if you Could prove it scientifically!" He was seriously pissed off too! On another weird tangent, the famous success coach, Anthony Robbins, came across some very high ranking CIA specialists who, using something related to Neuro Linguistic Programming (high tech hypnosis that does Not require trances), were able to turn fervent believers of a doctrine (eg. Fundamentalist Muslims) into Atheists or Christians in one extended conversation??!! They could switch them back too (!!?) and basically manipulate a person like clay. Robbins said it was one of the most chilling things he ever witnessed in his life! Knowing a little about such things and the degree of Professionalism and gravity involved I know the only ways someone could resist or escape such a tactic is to know the mechanics of what they do or even more powerful (not to mention simpler) magic shielding and boomeranging methods. Simple stubborness nor ignorance would be uneffective. Its something to think about....
SerpenTina: I think the purpose of dogma is for people who are not ready or willing or for whatever reason do not want to take on the
responsibility of thinking for themselves. dogma is comfort - they
can relax and let someone else decide for them. whether it's
religious, medical (do whatever the doctor says) or government, it's
easier for them to just follow. has anyone out there ever read 'The
Law of One' (RA)? from llresearch.org. awesome stuff - by far the
highest-calibre channeled stuff I have ever encountered. highly
recommended - but I gotta warn ya it's heavy reading!
you might start with 'Wanderer's Handbook - excerpts & commentary from
originals. anyway what made me think of it is they offer another
perspective on dogma - for some people, this may be the 1st lifetime
in which they are choosing any spiritual path AT ALL, and they're
very shaky on it, so they WANT to be told what to do & how to think.
they are just now learning that there even is a spiritual reality;
they are not ready for concepts such as multiple paths being valid,
not to mention tolerance for others. that is where they are at. I
have had my share of run-ins with dogmatic people -
for example a Christian midwife (ironically, whom I chose BECAUSE I wanted someone with a spiritual faith!) freaked out on me & accused me & my hubby
of being 'satanic' - everything from acupuncture to vegetarianism
(all of which we are into) was 'of the devil'. needless to say, we
fired her! anyway, it took a long time for me to even begin to get
past the anger & resentment, & finally realize that she was doing
what she believed in. | To Be Continued |
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OK, fine, just leave me alone, is how I think.
BUT my point is, it seems like, somehow, once I shifted my thinking,
and try to find common ground (even if it's only a shred) I find
that I just don't seem to encounter much of it anymore, at least not
in ways that are a problem. I'm not saying to be condescending to
them, but it might be helpful to think of them as 'younger'
spiritually, rather than intentionally obnoxious. also, they are
usually rooted in fear. I remember when I was 1st getting into Edgar
Cayce, I feared the concept of reincarnation (something I now
consider ridiculously basic) and the only reason I persevered with
it was the focus on Jesus. I was still so rooted in a Biblical
foundation. I couldn't handle the idea of OTHER masters, OTHER holy
books! that was 22 years ago, & so many things I believe now would
have scared me back then. so I try to remember that when dealing
with dogmatic people, that that's where they are at. the thing that
bothers us the most of course is when they try to cram it down
others' throats. but I was even guilty of that, not on religion, but
on vegetarianism! I feel very sheepish to admit that 20 years ago I
tried to 'convert' everyone to veggie diets! I truly thought it was
my responsibility to 'save the world'. yikes!! so now I realize,
it's a phase they are in. oops, I think I've gone on too long on
this - and you said you didn't want to hear it! sorry, hope you
don't mind - just sharing my own experience with narrow minds.
whirlWindz: Wow SerpenTina!!
This message is so good I hadn't read half of it before I decided to cut and paste and comment along the way!
Not only does that REALLY resonate with me it gives me more compassion.  I Can imagine being a dissolute, disturbed criminal who's circumstances simply never gave him time other than to think about his next victim and drug fix so never mind pondering quantum META-physics and astral dimensions!! I truly believe education (and I only have a little bit!) is a luxury which some (eg. most of us) are Lucky enough (due to Karma??) to have/afford. Even though my conventions still wince slightly I must say that when channeled info is Good NOTHING CAN COMPARE. Compare fishsticks to Lobster??!! I feel the way you feel about RA, about the Seth Material, and thank you. Now I'll investigate RA. The intellect is mighty and valid but In--sight is sublime!!
Thank you very much.
SerpenTina: we (me, hubby & son) all LOVE Autobiography of a Yogi - awesome!!
Yogananda was the REAL THING! (our 14-year-old son was brought up
exposed to many paths & teachings) in fact Yogananda is probably the
most real to me of all the masters, probably because we have his own
words, UNcorrupted, and he was so very real, so very human. whirlwind: Very human indeed. With a loving, nearly Maternal compassion and an ecstatic poet soul akin to P.B. Shelley or something. He was/is Awesome!
I once had a semi-lucid dream in which Sri Yukestwar was holding the palm of his upheld and outstretched hand and arm (it was a
wavering ecto-plasmic form) towards me from about 10 feet away...beckoning me to come to him. I'll never forget that one as long as I live.
SerpenTina: I agree totally with all you said - (b4 I figured out not to do
this) I have shown people Bible passages that are to me just so
black-n-white obvious about stuff like reincarnation etc and they
just don't see it. they don't want to see it! so, it doesn't matter
whether I have 'the facts' - if that person chooses to bury his/her
head in the sand, I must respect that. (aside from those
little 'comments' I might make now & then, but even those are only
if the person seems like they might be questioning or searching)
and the Law of One books taught me that the blackest evil is to take
away the free will of another, to manipulate them or dominate them.
I remember a similar story about Aleister Crowley (who supposedly
switched to the dark path at some point.  whirlwind: very interesting kooky dude, Crowley! I think his epic opium and heroin usage (which didn't prevent him from breaking mountain climbing records???!!) are what led to his personal madness and submission to the Dark Side... SerpenTina: he demonstrated how he could pick a person at random walking down the street, and follow behind him & match his gait, attune to his
energy so precisely, then abruptly make a jerking movement which
would cause the person to stumble even tho he was 8 or so feet ahead
of him and wasn't even touched. so yeah, manipulation is something
the black magicians use, that is what makes them black. whirlwind: From what I hear and believe Crowley was the real deal and Brilliant! His was fond of shattering wine glasses with telekinesis from across a room. Strange that many occultists and teachers I adore describe his genius but I've always been Firmly "pushed away" from examining him even when I wanted to. I consider Robert Anton Wilson one of my most important teachers through books like The Cosmic Trigger and audio cassettes like Secrets of the Illuminati co-authored by him and E.J. Gold. |
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continuation Wilson knew Crowley and was even a bit of a Crowleyite but he knew
better than most that he was the most brilliant psychopath on the block. One time a friend of mine decided to lend me The Book of The Law and I said to myself that I would finally give in and read this "brilliant" work of channeled extra-terrestial magic. The fact that its a very skinny volume helped convinced me. That same day the book literally dematerialized before I could get to it and I thanked Supreme Intelligence and again said to myself, "I hear You loud and clear! NO CROWLEY!!"  SerpenTina: do you have any boomeranging methods you'd like to share? what
about 'mirroring'? whirlwind: Mirroring has at least two magical meanings. In that method you described above with Crowley walking down the street behind a guy when you subtly mimic a person's body language, intonation, etc., etc. you become irresitible to them. Long as you're not obvious about it they feel soooo attracted to you but they don't know why. They are looking into a mirror. If you are obvious it won't work and you create resentment. The way I meant it when I mentioned it before is to literally create a thought-form mirror shield which, for instance, bounces the attacker's attack back at him. nothing fancy. No brown rice and staring at your tummy required. "Just do it!"-NIKE
The more you do this as a daily exercise, even when you don't need it cause you never know when you might, then its more real. A Real part of your psyche. Doing this during meditation and Lucid Dreaming increases its potency by powers of tens++. : ) Each One Teach One.
LucidAngel: I use this technique in a lot of my shielding devices, being sure the person gets back whatever they sent at me. This is not the only device I use, I use several layers of different shielding, the more complicated the better with shields.
SerpenTina: I think knowledge has nothing to do with whether someone is
vulnerable to manipulation. rather, it is the degree to which the
person is a follower vs an independant thinker. if someone is locked
into a rigid dogma, no matter what it is, that alone shows they fear
independance & free thinking, and could easily be switched to some
other belief. probably the stronger their belief, the more dogmatic
they are, and, ironically, the more susceptible they could be to
such manipulation as you described. I think people like us, who seek
out many various points of view, would not be susceptible to such
techniques. really, I don't think they would work on us.
whirlwind: I don't completely agree. You are illuminated and one of the drawer's sharper knives (LOL!) and its like anything. Some folks REALLY, REALLY, know their stuff. It would take more than mere affirmations and two Hail Marys to deal with Darth Vader or a PROFESSIONAL psychological manipulator. They are also like fencers. They bob and weave. They can sometimes mirror your magic! Constant spiritual growth-work which keeps you out of their ways is your best protection. Second best is (in my yaddah, yaddah opinion) based on life experience and research is to Acknowledge people like that are out there and without fear prepare for it. SerpenTina: I read LEVI's Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ about 20 years ago - I remember it was quite an eye-opener! and, you have inspired
me to dig out Roberts' 'The Nature of Personal Reality' which is the
only one I have, other than of course the Oversoul 7 Trilogy (which
is in my top 5 fave books of all time btw) whirlwind: The combination of humor, fantasy and QUALITY channeled info make Oversoul 7 books deeply effective!! Extremely important. Sumari Time! SerpenTina: I listened to alot of Sabbath, along with lots of other heavy stuff.
I'm curious what Ozzy (Black Sabbath) taught you?? whirlwind: I have to go back to the cds and listen but one album in particular with many tunes dealing with the ongoing trials of a rocker, wastrel, street tough who battles through his angry alienation through his Non-Dogmatic, Non-Religious love of Jesus and astral insights. Lots of astral projection in Sabbath tunes set to dark heavy rhythms contrasted with soaring, positive, inspirational lyrics!?! (eg. Symptoms of The Universe "..a Love That never dies....yeaaaahhh!!" drum solo please.) Don't get me wrong, I think those guys have also displayed extreme delinquence and irresponsiblilty ("look who's talking!"). A friend told me he was backstage with Tony Iommi once and you could FEEL powerful and Evil energy rippling off the dude but we are all the "Temple of The Living God." SerpenTina: I do understand what you mean,
that we can learn something from the 'least likely' people, and
sometimes they are more 'spiritual' than those who posture alot) whirlwind: Peace to you SerpenTina. . SerpenTina: Peace! |
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continuation Hey Folks,
I am thrilled to have come across this board and a big "thank you"to
whirlwind for starting it."Autobiography of a Yogi" is one of my favourite
books. As for Jesus, I absolutely adore Him,despite being a Hindu. I have
read the Bible and many things happening in the name of Christianity would
not have been tolerated by Jesus.
The main purpose of this message though is to say "Hi" to you folks.
Have a great weekend,everybody.
Peace and love.
highpriestess
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|  0 recommendations | Message 3 of 7 in Discussion | | | From: voyd | Sent: 3/4/2003 9:50 AM | | This message has been deleted by the author. | | Reply
| | | From: voyd | Sent: 3/4/2003 9:51 AM | I feel worship-based (vs enlightenment-based religions) enslave, rather than free, the mind, and are basically mental viruses unleashed upon humanity to divide, conquer and control us. Works like a charm too! Kids need to be "inoculated" at birth against this false propadogma! | | Reply
| | | "Propadogma"? Love it! Welcome aboard Voyd and thank you for the passion and WiZdom of your insights. We agree with most of what you're saying and a mere couple of week ago may have agreed 110%. However, SerpenTina opened our eyes and ears to a couple of things..... What if the dogmatists are our spiritual children in a sense?? Certainly they're not going "out on a limb" like you or me but maybe they Literally CAN'T at this point in time without causing serious damage to their survival instincts. And if they are our "spiritual children think of the grand responsibility placed upon our shoulders?!? There's a British physicist who conducted EXTENSIVE scientific testing of The Geller Effect by testing psychic, corporate dowser (Waterwitcher) and spoon bender Uri Geller. He also tested scores of young British children who exhibited similar but MUCH GREATER feats of psychokinesis (eg. no touching of the items to be bent, thick iron rods instead of keys and spoons, paperclips and other metallic items arranged into beautifully impossible linkings while encased in plastic tanks in a lab, etc. The book is called SUPERMINDS by John Taylor I think....) and he vividly describes his experience after testing Uri in the laboratory. He walked about in a dysfunctional twilight state for days afterward. If what he witnessed was in fact true it meant that EVERYTHING he knew about physics up to that time was, in a sense, FALSE. All his schooling and upbringing. Eventually he recanted everything he published?! The great Dr. Albert Einstein had similar difficulties. It is said that he spent the second half of his life trying to disprove the findings of the first half of his life!!?? He was unsucessful!! Quantum Mechanics disturbed Einstein greatly although he helped to discover it. I don't know what your belief systems are but possibly you and I are scripture thumping dogmatists in a simultaneous incarnation trying to put the "Fear of God" into people like you and me....??? Two other things.... 1) Very cool website you got there Voyd and 2) Actually former U.S. Vice President Al Gore DID invent the Internet ....NOT! | | Reply
| | | From: voyd | Sent: 3/20/2003 3:56 PM | | whirlwind, Ah, thanks for the kind words! Always great to be amongst like-minded! " I don't know what your belief systems are but possibly you and I are scripture thumping dogmatists in a simultaneous incarnation trying to put the "Fear of God" into people like you and me....???" Ah, so u say that we ourselves might also be pushing dogma (just "New Age," vs Christian) amongst ourselves and our "New Age" brethren? Well, that is why I am now to the point of really wanting to be able to personally achieve all these thing I've read/heard about. It's time for me to put up or shut up. People can argue all day over written dogma, but can't argue with reality-based action. I need to prove 100% to myself first, before others will believe me. -- I've also been contemplating the definition of love. When people think you must love everyone, they start assuming you must become a pacifist doormat Hallmark card. Well, I don't know that that always works. Sometimes, you can get thru to someone better by matching their aggression. You can provide themselves a mirror to observe their own behavior in and maybe teach themselves a lesson. And you're simply communicating in their language - where they interpret pacifism as acceptance. Fight fire with fire sometimes? As long as you speak the truth and your goal in the end is still one of concern for the universe's well-being. End justifies the means perhaps? Love is a multi-colored rainbow with many emotions. I don't know, just thinking out loud here...? Am I totally off here? | | Reply
| | | WiZe words voyd. You're on track. Its true that the best way of communicating is often to mirror the mode of the people you're speaking to even if its not quite your style. In the big cities we see this everyday where rudeness and crudeness is the norm. "Peace, Love and Granola Barz" probably won't be understood and even taken as stupidity and gullibility. It won't get you employed for instance! Very true also that no one will ever believe us until we Walk our talk Successfully. | | |
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