Divas....40 & Over

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Life is all about choices... in reading through the couples thread a number of times I have noticed a recurring theme... for the most part everyone wants everyone to believe that the choice they have made is the right choice... when it comes right down to it the only person whose opinion that matters is your own... if you have followed your personal values, your personal feelings and your personal needs... NO ONE else's opinion should make you feel less than what you are... it is not a matter of religion, a matter of law, a matter of society, not even a matter of parents... so many people have tried to live their lives based on rules that their parents set down or society pushes them into... or the worst ever... religion pushes them into... does anyone not know why we have wars, why we have hate, why we have so much sadness and despair... it is a recurring theme in history... some individual or government body decides they know what is best, that they believe in this or that and wants everyone else to kowtow to their belief... their relgion is the only religion... and if you don't believe as they do it gives them an excuse to try to make you a butt of a joke, to shoot you or steal your lands or whatever it might be... and even if you are honest and really only want to do good... so much evil and bad has come before you that people who need help don't know if they should trust you or not... so they turn you away rather than take a chance.

Oh, I am not saying that there should not be laws but we have to be reasonable... I am pro choice in everything and mostly in never try to tell anyone else how to live their life based on how you live yours... because what works for you is based on your choices, your experiences your situation... everyone has to make their own choices based on their situation... and it DOES NOT make it wrong just because you may find a different answer.

Parents should most certainly raise their children to be honest, to be caring, to be thoughtful but to be able to make choices based on the world they live in... not the world their parents may have grown up in. It is naive to believe that society will not change based on the changing of the world we live in. We can not go back to what used to be, what once was even if some of us may believe that life was better 50 years ago there is no going back. We live in a world that allows many people the freedom to be all they can be and in doing so it has changed what is possible. Making a good life for our children now means both parents have to work, there is no more mommy waiting at home for the kids at home with cookies and milk. Sure it is sad but that was then... life goes on... people grow... or they become extinct...

Marriage... will always exist in some form... but is should never feel like a prison sentence... and it should certainly not be the end all be all of any existence either... perhaps it is time to think of how to change laws to recognize that 2 people who love each other don't need a piece of paper to say they belong together whether they are straight, gay, lesbian, black, brown, white or any combination thereof and they still have a right to be a family just because they want to be...

Okay... I have said my piece now... and some of you may figure out that I very rarely speak on these threads because my views are perhaps a bit controversial... but I do believe in honesty with oneself above all things... love who you will... when you will... because you may lose the chance tomorrow...

I think you deserve a round of applause Babs.

I tried to stay out of the couples thread; but ended up having to say my thoughts because I felt like I was almost being "slapped in the face" for my choice of life style.

everyone wants everyone to believe that the choice they have made is the right choice

and it IS the right choice......for them .

Exactly the point I was trying to make..but it got lost. (just as I feared.) And for me...marriage is not a prison sentence. If it was...I would never have gotten or be married now.

You speak very eloquently, Babs...and I am proud to belong to a group where (despite the fact I don't care much for labels)....conservatives and liberals can speak and share and respect each other. That is the most important thing. One of my dearest friends and I have had this running greeting for each other for years.....she says.....Ohhhh I love you, even though you are a total right wing conservative......and I always laugh and say....I love you too.....even though you are a far left liberal.....and we laugh....with each other. She recently had to relocate for her job..and I miss her dearly...but we speak on the phone and email several times a week.

The question in the thread was....should people live together before marriage.....and in every case I said...it was not for ME....but I didn't care what other people do. And I truly don't. (with the exception of my sons.)

Yes, I'm disappointed that my son has strayed from what he was taught..but I love him dearly and he is here almost every single day at one point. How many other parents can honestly say their kids choose to come to see them so often? He knows how we feel about the way he is living.....but we won't let it separate us....we just won't be part of it or support it in any way....but we love him...and we love her too, they both know it....and our door is always open. But they can't expect us to sacrifice ourselves for their beliefs, either. And no one else has the right to tell me what values to instill in my children...not schools, not governments, and certainly not other people.

But what I said about people challenging those of us who want to keep our own beliefs and live by them...is true. Because we do NOT have to give up what we believe in.....because other people feel it is obsolete, or because parts of the world are going to hell in a handbasket. Although I respect their rights to do it, absolutely. But they should also respect those of us....to whom marriage IS important....and that should mean ALL couples. Some of us....straight, gay, etc....DO want it...and DO value it. We continue to fight for it. And we should ALL have that right. Those who don't want it.....certainly have that right, as well.

You know....I have been talking about these very things...to women....of various lifestyles and ages and backgrounds....for about 5 yrs now...I've always wanted to write a book on it...based on conversations I've had with them......I had.actually started one......and maybe I will get to working on that again.

Thanks so much for sharing, Babs....I enjoyed very much reading you....you have a big heart....and you speak well. I especially love your last sentence.

Well I am STILL waiting for the husband....who is stuck in first gear this morning....to get his butt around so we can go take care of business up town...guess I need to go light a fire under him again......

Babs...I started reading this post and before I finished I went to the couples thread that you are referring to. I put a long response out there myself, since I view a lot of this from a different "angle", if you will.

I think you and I are very much alike in that we are both pro-choice on everything. I try and think I succeed at not condemning anyone for the choices they make for their own lives. As long as they don't condemn me. That's when I will fight for my rights and beliefs.

You are right when you say that everyone has to make their own decisions based on what's right for them. And for anyone to put them down is only going to lead to heartbreak, sadness, and eventually...hate. I live in a constant fear of nonacceptance...a constant fear that I will be hated not because of the person I am, but because of my sexual preference! What a stupid reason for someone to hate...but it's there. We've all heard of the "hate crimes" against gays/lesbians, so I have to try to appear "straight" for most of the world. All because others deem it wrong.

Babs, I enjoyed reading your post and I think you should put your views out here more often. I love these kinds of discussions so that I can put my views out here as well. I will join adair in giving you a round of applause.

Penny...I don't think I'll ever understand how you can say you believe that everyone has to make the decisions that are right for them, but can't support that same belief with your sons. You want them to live the same way you did...but they, if they were raised right and it sounds like they were, have minds of their own to make decisions with. Let them make their own decisions and learn from life...you raised them to do that, now you need to accept that.

I was talking to a woman at work this a.m. She was worried about her son & the woman he is now living with. The son is 23. She thinks he's to young to live with her. I said the more you say no the woman is telling him yes.

It's funny how we discuss things that are happening in our lives. The mother has been upset. I told her my oldest lived togher for 3 yrs. before they married. It doesn't make her a bad mother for what they are doing.

I knew I'd be attacked for my choices....and I have been. I'm sorry I posted them. I won't do it again.

I don't want to delete my posts and ruin AngelBear's thread because I feel it is a good thread....otherwise I would. This is EXACTLY what I feared would happen...and why I said I didn't want to answer the question that was posed to me. I should have gone with my instincts. For the record, I respect you all.

Please accept my apologies...everyone who is offended that I chose my own lifestyle and answered the question for ME. I truly meant to offend no one. I thought we were all free to share our own, and I always felt people learned this way.

Lori---with all due respect...my sons are MY sons. You are free to raise your children any way you like...but not mine. I have a good relationship with my sons...I don't have to agree with everything they do to love them. My love for my boys is unconditional. I don't know a parent on earth who agrees with everything their kids do. They DO live their own lives their own way. Doesn't it sound like they do? But why would you tell another person what they need to accept? I wouldn't do that to you, or anyone else.

From now on....I will only voice my opinion if it agrees with everyone else's. I have no desire to upset anyone.

Pennys- I don't feel that anyone is judging you nor have you upset anyone. I think this just opened everyones various opinions on the topic and it went from there. I find all the answers very interesting and we all learn from it. Please don't stop voicing your opinion on anything here. I love reading your posts.

Penny...where did I or anyone ever attack you? Where did I or anyone ever give you the feeling that you can't voice your opinions? Your opinions are just that...yours. Mine belong to me and I will not apologize for them. If we all agreed 100% on everything, not only would this be a boring group, but it would be one that I wouldn't belong to. This group is made up of diverse women with diverse upbringings and beliefs as well as lifestyles. It's these kind of discussions that make this a great group. Just because we all have differing opinions on something doesn't mean that we're attacking each other or putting each other down for something they said. And, I wasn't telling you how to raise your kids...I was voicing an opinion.

Let them make their own decisions and learn from life...you raised them to do that, now you need to accept that.

Speaking of choices....lol......I have made the choice.....to end my participation on this subject. I am going to go look in the mirror again and see if I really do have purple hair like I did the last time I looked...lol...this is going to take some getting used to.

Thank you all for a very insightful conversation.

I'm so very sorry Penny feels her opinions have been attacked. I, like many of you am also pro choice in my beliefs (on Everything.) I wish Penny could see that the way she has presented the situation with her son- it sounds like she's Ok with him having a choice but only if he makes the same choice she has; it means she's failed.

I think she's suceeded by instilling her son with her pro CHOICE values and conviction ( as she has)to make the choice he thinks is best for himself. As she steadfastly adheres to her choice, I wish she could see that it appears she has sabotaged her argument that she is fine with other people living with other choices.She is clearly not fine with his choice if she thinks she has failed.

Penny, I hope you read this- I am NOT attacking you by any means; simply waanting you to understand how your words may have been perceived.

This has been a great thread, Thank you all, Ladies!

Lindush- Thank you for wording your post as you did. I wasn't sure how to get the message out over what I observed and you have explained it nicely. Thanks!

I really enjoy theses threads.

Lindush...I want to thank you as well...you worded it perfectly and I couldn't figure out how to say what you said either! Thanks again and I also enjoy discussions like this!

Important Announcement The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
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