|
|
 |
|
|
Reply
| |
Re: So now that's me, my mum and my uncle (her brother) all been diagnosed, it runs on that side of the family anyway. My mother was "borderline" for a long while and just in that same week was finally started on oral anti-diabetic medication. YES, we see Uranus over her 6th house of health,..kind of out of the blue,but knowing already it simply was a "matter of time" i.e. the transits, and the timing for a manifested type of unexpected but hard transit...to the health house. It "could have been" something else however, as although, it's said that the Natal "promises us"....what is in it, the Tranists then "trigger the natal promises"..........BUT, the promise is only "non-descript" I think. For instance , my natal "promises" that in the 5th house of Children, I will suffer a "Definite Loss", i.e. real , definite, and not "maybe" type of loss in the house of children. My South Node (karma node) is there, the node which is the more malefic one. Yet, I could have seen a fatality of a child, an abortion of one?(never).....or any number of ways in which this transit would have "kicked in" what the natal promised..... Same too then, for your mother I would think......... The means or wherewithal, is still up to "chance", and not foreordained... That's why so many do NOT suffer that badly during the so-called, "Saturn Return", and others it hits extremely hard. It's what the soul deems necessary, (IMO). for proper integration of it's lessons.... Perhaps then for Mum, it won't be so bad, although as you say, she too has "inherited" this genetic pre-disposition, but the "promise" in her natal of such an inherited thing, does not mean the destruction (Pluto), will be as critical then, as another soul whose promise hasn't been met in the same fashion, i.e. soul's growth...... So, I see that Quantum Physics, again, explains to us a wee bit, what we can understand, that there is a "wild card" as well in the works. |
|
Reply
| |
Looking at Pluto's aspects in all 3 charts Yours- There is a Bi-Quintile ? to the Sun, so perhaps, your own personality is not necessarily in the straits as to kick in such a devastating blow?........even with the opp.to Venus?? (just a guess here for now, until I can study further any medical things I can find on Astrology later) I wonder if Saturn falls into your 6th house of health? in the Equal house chart? The Tad Mann theory holds that the 8th house is the house in which we look to see "what we've inherited" from the biological gene pool, as well as from vibrations, (prior to birth or conception, which is the 9th house)..... In YOUR chart, we do see Pluto there, in the 8th.....thus inherited vibrationally might mean, IMO, that you were "drawn" to this family via past lifetimes, and energies inherent in you that you are trying to overcome, work with or "Transform",(keyword for Pluto)......by "breaking down to rebuild these energies"...... This of course, would be my (typical metaphysical take, /jargon), on what I'm thinking here. not traditional astrology huh?................... Now in Mum's 8th house of "Inherited things", wew see then, her BML in a very critical degree because it is Anaretic..... my daughter Jen shares her birthday, January 4th, btw.  Now for your mu, this "inherited station", she took up, putting her BML & NN in the 8th, ALSO, is in Aries, the planet that representive of Mars, i.e. "anger" and crisis control. Perhaps in past lifetimes for instance, (South Node in Libra), 2nd house she lived lives of "sitting on the fence" trying to be a good Libran, or one who doesn't speak their mind, or cause waves for the sake of peace and harmony. But, to withhold one's mind and upset instead of "being true to it", then can cause repressed emotions, i.e. the need for "Aries NN & Chiron". to face up to these repressed emotions in this lifetime, (just a guess here)..... Her Moon in Cancer (21st degree), says this might be so, (to me)..... Her M/C in Gemini, suggests too, that there was a kind of dualism of purpose, when she came into this lifetime, so now is addressing it (within herself<) and possibly the whole diabetes episode and disease is part of this inner working on the self? Her Vertex (Destiny), is at Fomalhaut, so, critical too at 3 Pisces. Her POF and her Vertex (Both karmic indicators) are BOTH in her 6th house of Health. Interesting, but I'll need to post when I find some more medical stuff in astrology too. And when Saturn is this very close to the AC, there can be indeed, reprecussions to the health, (see my granddaugher's chart the twins, who have Saturn there, but a little further away, (thank god), but twins born on the same day as she , in Egypt, weren't so luck health-wise.... The closer Saturn is the to AC, the more the energy of restrictions and health issues may arise...... Your mother's chart depicts a very strong woman, so I don't think she'll have that much difficulty bearing up under the strain of it all.....She'll probably be more philosophical then.,about it than most might be. I wish her much luck, and overcoming....Chiron (natal) near the I/C must have been hard for her all along......But I think she's very strong with a philosphical conviction too.....that helps her. |
|
Reply
| |
Uncle's natal: I'm getting so, that whenever I see a 29 degree Leo anymore, I get "angst" about it, because it's like everyone who has it in their chart, indeed, has a "fall" like a "thud" at some point from a rather lofty position (the quick rise of Regulus, but the equally quick and fast rapid fall......)as per Anne Wright's site. The ancients saw this no doubt in their Generals in the armies, and noticed & observed, "their quick rise" in power & command, yet, also observed their equally fast fall in life. My husband has Regulus at the M/C and for sure, this has been his "lot" in the public life, career wise......could never quite "get there"........a quick rise, but a fast fall from favor in the career world. Now Uncle has Regulus conjunct his Pluto......perhaps symbolically then, this is telling us something here.....? |
|
Reply
| | From:  oniero | Sent: 6/12/2007 5:14 PM |
Thanks for all that Debs, as to the changes the equal house system would make I am not sure that anything would move from the 7th to the 6th, wouldn't the Asc and Desc stay put? Alas that 7th house Saturn stays with me no matter what! Uranus would stay in my uncle's 7th too I think. He is a divorcee, quite a sad story really, married his school sweetheart, she ran off with a gym teacher a few years into the marriage, don't think he ever really got over it. His closest relationship is with a lesbian work colleague so I think perhaps it's very fitting for Uranus to be in his 7th, and with Venus in Aquarius. Also Pluto fits where it is - he's got victim written all over him this one, he's a big, strong guy, he's just not a fighter. He doesn't start trouble but somehow he seems to be the target of violence more than his fair share. Perhaps it's because he's so big people want to "take him down" to make themselves feel more powerful. I guess that's the Pluto opposition to Venus and Sun from the 7th house then. I like to think it's quite sweet that my mum's POF and vertex are very close to my sun, and sometimes she says I should get rich and make her life comfortable, she's got a long wait is all I can say if she thinks I am going to be her fortune! |
|
Reply
| |
I'd say from the soul's perspective (i.e. POF and Vertex), are indicitive or symbolic of the fact that YOU ARE, her "fortune". ,whether she realizes it or not yet. |
|
Reply
| | | From: oniero | Sent: 8/20/2007 2:18 AM |
| This is my grandfather's chart as you thought it might be interesting. There's quite a few degrees here that I am surprised to see and a much greater Martian influence than I would have expected, for an Aries he was an incredibly polite one! I don't think I've seen a Rx Mars before in a chart, maybe that had something to do with it. |
| |
Reply
| |
Military man........a lot of bravery in the chart. Mars is not only the ruler of Aries, but co-ruler of Scorpio, from the ancient days into today. I wonder if he lost his temper often, (behind closed doors?) Sun at 29th deg.Aries opp Mars......and Mercury at the 1 deg.position. IF not, then I'd think that like many on the Cayce thread who "overcame" their vices or vibrations, ......have made me re-think these judgements of critical degrees as well. So many DO overcome them, via Free will alone. Lilith is in the sign of "Military" in Sagitarius ruled by Jupiter. And Jupiter is in Leo (another more militaristic sign)....lots of uniformity here, if not uniform (miltiary)  I wonder what my grandfather/s would look like? He was born in 1896, but I'd need to dig out his birth day., It was in September,(a Virgo).....but I can't be sure of the day itself. He was such a mild-mannered and quiet one. But he "drank like a fish", as they say. A full blooded American Indian from North America......near Quebec.,(born in Bar Harbor Maine)where the Indians sold their wares to the tourists...... I loved him a lot, and he was the first person I ever lost to death., I was 20, and he was in the hospital (escaping from there)as my mother & grandmother told me. He hid behind a closet and told them when they visited, "IF they didn't spring him from the place he'd walk & take a cab home, naked"........he was such a riot!!! I remember when I called him in the hospital, (he died of esophycal sic Cancer of the throat).......he told me to bring him a bottle of cough medicine, (VicksFormula 44). I always thought he was just trying to keep it from me, that it was as bad as it was, instead, he told me "I just have a cold".  Grandparents can add a lot to a person's life. It's a shame when they are denied their grandchildren.  My grandmother was very strong too. She was a REAL "Scorpio" who use to tell me while she rocked in her rocking chair at night that one night when it would be very quiet, she'd "stick a knife in his heart and twist the knife until he was gone"...LOL  She kept me spellbound by her stories of death, tragedy, miracles & how she'd kill my grandfather to get back at him for his drinking and giving her headaches...... They were such fun to grow up around!!! |
|
Reply
| | | From: oniero | Sent: 8/22/2007 6:09 PM |
Hi Debs, your grandparents sound quite spirited! My grandfather died of the same kind of cancer as yours, apaprently it's quite rare. They think that in my grandfather's case it was partly work related and partly damage done from trouble with stomach ulcers throughout his life and in no small part I think much medical incompetance made it all incredibly unpleasant for him. I've been thinking hard these last few days about where his ascendent could have been and, for various reasons, I've narrowed it to either Capricorn, Virgo or Pisces, any of which would have quieted him down. Possibly even a late degree of Aquarius. There definitely needs to be more Piscean influence by house. Also he suffered a lot with asthma and stomach problems so perhaps Virgo or Gemini ought to be on the 6th house cusp. Re: Military man........a lot of bravery in the chart. Mars is not only the ruler of Aries, but co-ruler of Scorpio, from the ancient days into today. I wonder if he lost his temper often, (behind closed doors?) Sun at 29th deg.Aries opp Mars......and Mercury at the 1 deg.position. I was so surprised that this could be his chart, it all seems so incongruous to me, it's strange. I never once saw him lose his temper and have only ever heard of how agreeable he was, actually it's a well known fact in our family that he NEVER argued! My mum described him as a gentle giant, if only there were more like that! He used to make up stories and poems for my mum but that doesn't really show (maybe the Venus to Neptune and Mercury). He was definitely a very active man in his youth, maybe he just channeled his energies that way. He joined the Scots Guard shortly before the drafting began because he didn't want to get drafted just anywhere but he didn't stay in the army after the war was over. I don't know if the army is a choice he would have made had there not been a war. Before the war he was a footballer; he boxed in the army (which I've only just found out about), apparently he and his best friend were the top 2 in their weight category but my grandmother disapproved and asked him to give it up so he did. He got a lot of shrapnel in his legs and his head during the war so I dont think he would have been able to really play football again either. Sadly our dog was the only one in our family with any interest in playing football after him! My mum always had pets as he used to rescue a lot of animals at work (he worked as an electrician and would sometimes find animals stuck or abandoned). It seems it's his side of the family that are very fond of animals. Hmm, actually perhaps all those stomach problems he had are from all the repressed energy/Mars once he had a less active lifestyle in that case...you know how people joke "you should hold it all in cos it'll give you an ulcer", maybe there is something in it. This is all in stark contrast to my father, born the same day with a stellum in Aries, with some similar placements - Venus in Aries, Mars in Scorpio (15 degrees), Venus and Mercury Conj - who really IS an Aries and no mistake! He can really be an unpleasant one when he wants to be to, and that's despite a Capricorn Asc and Piscean Moon. Actually that's a little creepy! I know they say that women go for men like their father; though I would never have said they were similar in any way their charts have a lot of similarities, hmmm. I'll try to attach it so you can see for yourself. |
| | dad - chart.gif |
Reply
| |
Hmm, actually perhaps all those stomach problems he had are from all the repressed energy/Mars once he had a less active lifestyle in that case...you know how people joke "you should hold it all in cos it'll give you an ulcer", maybe there is something in it. TRUE!!.........makes sense, and is often the case from what I've seen. My grandfather, use to get out his frustrations, over being in White America, and his own negative self-image as far as being Indian in White America; by getting drunk, and when drunk he'd be in fights with strangers on the street, bragging to them, he was the "manager of Jack Dempsey," a famous 30s Boxer (fighter) lol Everytime he was drunk my grandmother would lock the door (they had a commercial candy store), and she'd say to me, "go lock the door, I see him coming down the street".....in order to punish him, (she again, was a typical Scorpio vibration) He would stagger home, and knock & knock, yell, and I'd eventually let him in.....because I loved him. He always told us (when drunk) that our cousin (2nd removed) was the famous Indian on TV, on the Lone Ranger, known as "Tonto"......ALWAYS he needed to rev up his self-image and could only do this successfully when drinking. Otherwise, he was a shy, quiet, (hardly spoke at all) Virgo Sun Maybe I'll download a photo of him, (young & older), as I say, he was the first relative, close to me I lost, when I was just turning 20 & still 19. |
|
Reply
| |
Reference: Reference: (see photo of Tonto, on horsebackk in bottom of photo) (his real name was Jay Silverheels), lol. not Rene' my family's name.(French-Indian name taken from the French) but my grandfather, regaled us with his stories, just like my grandmoher did (the Scorpio knife stories,  but yet I'd sit at her feet at her rocking chair, listening to her for hours on end, about Jesus, and the little known by others back then, "Nag Hammidi scrolls" the "hidden gospels...." that she knew about.  She added a lot to my life...too as did he. She knew the "little known" things, and was into politics too, (hated the Kennedys, ) for instance,; she was a contrast (just like Scorpio is known for,) of every constrasting, "loves & hates" and revenge....... but yet spirituality too. Quite a lady. Quite a team. |
|
Reply
| |
the two I'm talking about (during their long lives): so proud..........he must have had either Leo at the M/C or rising perhaps?........but he was a Virgo Sun. Here they are with my mother, (their first born), on the Indian Reservation in America (Hogansburg, New York) circa 1923? |
| |
Reply
| |
Grandad, at his candy store, in which I worked for them too. as they always lived near my house....or rather my mom lived near them ALWAYS.....and I practically lived with them. (We seldom ate candy  I guess it was Tooo available) just before he died of inoperable esophygal throad cancer. 1966 (with his ever ready in his hand, cigar!)but not really smoking it.) |
| |
Reply
| |
Wow, your dad is Greek! I always thought the Greeks were quite boisterous, very very colorful, and always "emoting?"......like Ari Onassis, or the Greeks we see on TV, like "Zorba the Greek" with Anthony Quinn as Zorba: His Chart: ...........Aries Sun....but with a 3 deg.Pisces (conj. Fomalhaut) Moon; for contrast.....of emotional nature;I'd think. Aris (expressive), but Pisces, (playing down and more inner/) Mercury & Venus surely, he is outgoing - in Aries. so much fire, - but not surprised, as it "seems" fitting for a Greek. AC 1Capricorn,(critical) how did it play out? so much Chiron stuff here - he must have hard chldhood perhaps>?? or some kind of inner wound, either brought into this lifetime, or being expressed once again, here. Is he extremely tempermental? What is Mom's chart like then? which one is more the outgoing personality? Is she Mediterranean? or British? (more laid back then?) How do you think his retrogrades are exhibited (if at all) in his personality today? as you've seen them or can symbolize then? Mars retro., Saturn, retro. Pluto retro. How about the AC 1deg.Cap? I have Saturn, Uranus & Pluto Retrograde.........so I really should study up more on Retrogrades.....as I do have a Schulmann book on them. But I think they play a role in the energies that we are perhaps "repeating".....in this lifetime in some fashion, and surely, I'm quite "Uranian" in my thinking and being; although it's hidden well under an exterior conservative Capricorn Sun sign. well- Well enough!  Ralph has only his Uranus Retrograde( we were born 9 months apart to the day.) he is 9 mos.younger then me. Interesting chart.......Your dad must have been wanted, (Sextile Sun to Moon) |
|
Reply
| | | From: oniero | Sent: 9/19/2007 9:37 PM |
Hi Debs, sorry about the long gap - I've had technical gremlins like you wouldn't believe. I've not seen Zorba the Greek but I know what you mean and yes they are a "boisterous" lot. A far cry from the British stiff upper lip I'm used to. Greeks always sound as though they are arguing because they only ever speak at incredible volume. My father is Spartan, hence my interest in classics I suppose. I've read that the moon on the IC is an interest in family history so I guess ancient history fits in for me too. My mother is British, a mixture of things, but then more history for me to delve into. I think I prefer the ancient Greeks to the modern ones though, they aren't a particulary open minded people. They've had a lot of troubles from wars and occupations and it has really set them back a lot. As for your questions: AC 1Capricorn,(critical) how did it play out? so much Chiron stuff here - he must have hard chldhood perhaps>?? or some kind of inner wound, either brought into this lifetime, or being expressed once again, here. Is he extremely tempermental? He can be a something of a drama queen. He says that he parks where he isn't meant to in case he dies so that he isn't there for a long time before he is found though I think it's also because he just doesn't like to behave. Both he and my mother (and my brother) tend to hysteria and anxiety and he has a very nasty temper (which I did inherit but have managed to overcome now), they both love to cause a scene. I thought they were going to get arrested coming back from holiday this year cos they had such an "outburst" in the airport. As to his childhood it was very hard. The Greeks had a very bad time of things during and after WW2, his grandfather starved to death as did many others because all the produce was taken by the occupiers. When he was a child he had to queue for hours every day to get NATO rations for the family and he nearly died of malnutrition. I think Oxfam originally began to help out in Greece. Sometimes I wonder if there was some organic damage done to his brain back then from the malnutrition and that's why he's the boor he is today or it's just the small villiage mentality he grew up with. |
|
Reply
| |
I can well imagine, based on movies (like Zorba) of the very emotional Greek people. It must be "a laugh a minute!"  my family was wierd too.......so you don't have a corner on the market! |
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
First
Return to OUR NATAL CHARTS