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Bliss of Heroin : Problematic bullshit
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 Message 1 of 25 in Discussion 
From: Josephine  (Original Message)Sent: 9/10/2004 8:29 AM
Question.
 
Fine, fine.  Go on ahead and laugh at my stupid ass and my stupid ass ideas.
 
For whatever reason, a couple of days ago I decided to try something new.  I have taken, recently, to going for veins in my neck or those tiny ones under your ribcage so as to not be so obvious.  I haven't tapped out my other veins - I just thought that it would be less conspicuous if I tried things that way.  Then, I had a stroke of genuis.
 
As an IV tech, I have been trained to draw arterial blood when necessary.  I thought to try and take an arterial shot.  The physical mechanics of it makes sense.  I would think that the compressed volume and increased bloodflow would, you know, make the shot take off like a rocket.  That's not what happened, though - I boiled down a combination of H and Valium, which felt awesome, but meanwhile in the aftermath I just hurt so fucking badly it's unreal.  I mean, I have literally never in my life felt pain like this.  I have been shooting some methadone to off balance it, but I guess I'm jsut wondering if anyone else has ever tried it, and what the fuck I'm supposed to be doing about it now.
 
Any input would be super.
 
Josie


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 Message 11 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLovingmom2433Sent: 9/18/2004 2:22 PM
Josie,
 
Hope you feel well soon, and glad you popped in and let us know you are doing ok.
Hope the Chinese herbalist brings you some relief.
Write me whenever you have time,  Much love Karen

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 Message 12 of 25 in Discussion 
From: sophiaSent: 9/18/2004 7:05 PM
Josie - I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this, but just thought I would share something with you.   A little over a year ago, my bf did a shot in his wrist and said it hurt like HELL - got all swollen and hot and stuff, but then it went away after a few days. After that, however, he was very achy all over and started having mild chest pains.  He went to the doctor after it was not getting better and found out it was a blood infection.  Every day over the next five days, he had to be hooked up for a few hours to IV antibiotics.  The infection was subsequently cleared from his blood and he was fine after that.  They told him that he had probably hit an artery, which caused the localized pain and could heal on its own, but the general achiness and such was due to the blood infection.....which was a very serious problem that warranted immediate medical attention.  I'm not sure at all if you're in a similar situation, but I just thought I would share this with you. 
 
I hope you are feeling better at this point and that the herbalist was beneficial.......keep us updated, okay?  Best wishes! 
 
-Sophia.       

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 Message 13 of 25 in Discussion 
From: JosephineSent: 9/21/2004 9:02 PM
I feel really really stupid right now, but I have to ask:
 
What is the immediate danger or injecting into an artery? 
 
Everyone keeps telling me how good it is that I did not succumb to the immediate dangers, but no one has told me what that dange was.  Are we talking abcess?  Heart attack?  I mean, I've been in the ER and seen arterial injections given.  I know how to do them, and there are a few instances when  my doctor (the one I mostly work with) feels that that is the best route for a medication.  How is  it not safe?
 
Josie

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 Message 14 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameConsolingClaudeSent: 9/21/2004 10:14 PM
Josie,
                I'm not a medical expert but what I do know is that blood in an artery is at a different pressure than blood from a vein and it is direct to your heart and there are medications that cannot be injected into the heart because of the direct link to your heart. Think of the heart as high voltage and your veins as low voltage well if you connect up something that should take low voltage to the high volt plug well then you are going blow something up.
My analogy may be simplistic but since I've worked in electronics for 30yrs I can relate to my analogy and I figure most people can relate to electricity. 
 
Read the following excerpt.
 

There is no doubt that injecting into the groin is dangerous. It distresses me to see how quickly some people move into using their groins. Some still have good veins left in their arms. Others have failed to look after their arm veins properly, for example by using clean equipment, alternating sites, injecting carefully and taking breaks from injecting. Those who have started using their groins often don't think of returning to their arm veins when these have recovered. The vein that runs through the groin is called the femoral vein. It is an important part of the blood system, and should be treated with respect. It runs close to the femoral artery and the femoral nerve, which are also very important structures. The vein is nearest of the three to the midline. If you put your finger over the pulse in your groin, and then move inwards about two fingers' breadths, you should be over the femoral vein. There are three common but serious dangers from injecting here, and lots of other less common ones which I have not got the space to describe.

1. Each time you inject into the vein it causes a little damage, and this gets worse over time. The big danger is that clots can form in the vein, causing deep vein thrombosis. This can lead to long-term damage to the blood drainage system in the legs, causing swollen ankles, poor circulation and ulcers and abscesses. Part of the clot can break off, and then be carried to the lungs, where it blocks off a major blood vessel. This is called pulmonary embolism, and can lead to sudden death.

2. Blood can leak from the injection into the deep parts of the groin. It can then get infected, and cause an abscess, which is a collection of pus. This is a bad place to have an abscess. The pus may not come out at the surface, but may force its way through into the muscles of the leg, into the bladder or into the back passage. This type of false connection caused by infection is called a fistula. It can be very difficult to treat, and usually requires a number of operations, and a great deal of misery.

3. Injection may occur by error into the artery or the nerve. Damaging the nerve may cause long-lasting pain and lack of feeling in the upper leg. Injecting into the artery can cause spasm of the artery, and an interruption of blood flow into the leg. There are several injectors who have lost a leg in this way. This is particularly likely if crushed tablets are injected, but can occur with methadone or heroin.

Does all the happen to everyone? Probably not. There are some people who inject in the groin over quite long periods without problems. But if your fiance continues to inject twice a day over the next ten years, he will inject himself at least 7000 times. It becomes very likely he will run into trouble. He will be very lucky to be still in good health when your son is old enough to leave school. If a user starts injecting in his groin, he should get back to using his arm veins as soon as possible. Or try injecting into his muscle if it is a pharmaceutical drug (the drug clinic will tell him how)*. Or give up injecting

 claude
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 09/21/04 16:07:32
Subject: Re: Problematic bullshit
 
New Message on Heritics of Heroin

Problematic bullshit

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  Reply to Sender   <FONT" width=16 align=middle border=0 size="1" face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans Serif">Recommend Message 13 in Discussion
From: Josephine

I feel really really stupid right now, but I have to ask:
 
What is the immediate danger or injecting into an artery? 
 
Everyone keeps telling me how good it is that I did not succumb to the immediate dangers, but no one has told me what that dange was.  Are we talking abcess?  Heart attack?  I mean, I've been in the ER and seen arterial injections given.  I know how to do them, and there are a few instances when  my doctor (the one I mostly work with) feels that that is the best route for a medication.  How is  it not safe?
 
Josie

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 Message 15 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamecuriosity77Sent: 9/22/2004 12:25 AM
Hi Josie,

Immediate dangers of injecting in an artery include bleeding and pain. Also, because it's such a direct route it increases your risk of developing secondary problems, like absecesses, embolisms, and endocarditis (infection in the heart). It's probably the most dangerous route you can use to get a drug into your body. It's different when it's ordered by a doctor for meically necessary reasons, but when used recreationally it is very high risk.

-Curiosity

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 Message 16 of 25 in Discussion 
From: JosephineSent: 9/22/2004 8:52 AM
Claude -

It strikes me that, in that case, shooting into a vein would be more
problematic. Veins lead to the heart - that's why there's less pressure in
them. Is there anyone here who hasn't, at some point, had a radial blood
draw in the er? That's where the initial thought came from; blood coming
straight from the heart holds a higher compression and velocity. I wanted
the shot to take off, and it did. It was great. Idon't know that I'll do
it again, but I also don't know that I won't.

I also wouldn't shoot into my femoral artery or vein - whatever else I may
be, I'm not fuckin' crazy! That shit would hurt. There's arteries all over
your body, you just have to know how to reach them.

Josie


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>To: "Heritics of Heroin" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Problematic bullshit
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 Message 17 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MarcoSent: 9/23/2004 6:43 PM
Hey Josie- forgive me for noting that people have different ideas of what crazy is-  you say you'd never shoot into a femoral artery or vein cuz you're not crazy; but some might argue that shooting into an artery is crazy.  BUT......
 
I think you raised a good question; I realized I didn't know what the dangers of shooting into an artery are.  I'd only heard the common- "make sure you never hit an artery," and how dangerous it is, but had never known anything about exactly why it's dangerous.
 
Arteries carry blood away from your heart (couldn't really tell if that was established definitively in any of the posts above) and so it does seem a bit counter-intuituive to think that would be more dangerous- it takes longer to get to your heart which could lead one to believe it's actually safer.  It also takes longer to get to your brain, so it really shouldn't give as much of a rush as shooting into a vein- I'm surprised you said it did and I wonder why that is.
 
Anyway, regarding dangers, I took a very cursory look at some things on the internet and while there seemed to be thousands of things stating it is dangerous and giving warning about how dangerous it is, there was almost nothing that explained why it is dangerous, or in fact, whether or not it actually is more dangerous.  There was quite a bit about the immediate pain and swelling, which can apparently be quite severe, but not much on serious risks- with one important exception:
 
It appears that on occasion it can reduce or cut off the flow of blood to an arm, leg, or whatever- resulting in gangrene and potentially amputation.  I didn't spend enough time looking to see if this could happen from one injection or if it was the product of repeatedly shooting into an artery, but it didn't sound pretty.  In any case, IMO it's probably just not a really smart thing to do- at a minimum the pain and swelling can be extremely severe and there doesn't seem to be any benefit- there's no reason it should give you a better rush; as I wrote above, it should actually be less of a rush since your blood returns to your heart and then is pumped out again before reaching your brain.
 
Be safe, Josie.
 
Marco

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 Message 18 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamecheanne68Sent: 9/23/2004 11:33 PM
Hey Josephine,
I have done radial blood draws for blood gases. I am a nurse and although it sounds like you did get the result you were looking for, it is a risky thing injecting into any artery. I imagine you must of got a quick flash of bright red frothy blood. If it was not bright red and frothy it was not an artery. Veins carry blood that is deoxygenated, meaning the blood is without oxygen and arteries carry blood that has oxygen. So if the blood you saw and if there was not a whole lot filling your syringe then it was not arterial. With arterial blood draws, you would get blood quickly filling your syringe and the blood would be very bright red and look foamy or frothy. If you did not get any of these then I don't know that you were injecting into an artery. What is risky is that it can lead to clots that are carried through the body to the lungs. A blood clot in the lungs is a serious thing or it can be carried back to the heart or brain. The risk of stroke or heart attack is not worth it. If you have good veins I would not risk it. Any artery whether it is the femoral or not is risky. They all carry the same amount of risk. Most people know of the femoral because it is the easiest to use and easy to find. If you have good veins, then use a new needle each time, this will cut down on the amount of scarring and not ruin your veins as quickly. Either that or stop or smoke your heroin. You chose a risky way of getting high and with it comes the dreaded track marks. Over time you will get scarring no matter what or some type of bruising. There is no way to completely hide it. If there were, I think most of us would of found it!
Anyway, be safe and although the high may be nice, man not being around to enjoy sucks!
C

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 Message 19 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamecheanne68Sent: 9/24/2004 4:41 PM
Hey Marco,
I just wanted to comment on your post regarding the dangers of shooting into an artery. While cutting off ones circulation can be very dangerous, one of the biggest dangers is blood clots. Even with injecting into a vein the risk of a clot is there, but more so with injecting into an artery. When injecting into an artery you will get an immediate rush of blood into the syringe that is very bright red and frothy. Once mixed with the dope in the syringe the blood starts to clot immediately and then injecting this back into the circulatory system is what causes a clot to travel. Into the brain or lungs where the arteries and veins become much smaller and increase the chances of causing a stroke or a pulmonary emboli which is as deadly. There is a reason that veins are used primarily in the hospital. When arteries are used, there is a special system to not only keep the blood from coagulating, but keeps the blood from traveling up into the tubing. It is a pressure system. They can monitor arterial pressures, monitor blood gases for oxygen levels and other life saving measures as well. Even from a small puncture with an ultra fine needle, the site can seep or leak and though it may not lead to death, it results in a mess and some bood loss.  I would hate to see anyone try this, especially someone maybe very new to injecting. Not everyone is able to get their hands on small gauge needles and if using something with a bigger gauge, it can lead to alot of bleeding. It can be hard to stop an arterial bleeding if not enough pressure is applied.
 
Anyone getting into the medical field now needs to be aware of the risks they are putting themselves and the patients in. I know this from personal experience and for anyone who works in the field and has an addiction, it is really tempting when around needles or meds to take them. It is right there and hey who will know? Is it worth ruining a career over?
 
Anyway, I hope this explains it a bit better.
Take Care Marco, I always enjoy your posts and what you have to say,
Cheryl

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 Message 20 of 25 in Discussion 
From: CurioSent: 9/28/2004 8:26 PM
Hi. I wanted to ask how you are feeling now? I hope you are able to take the medical advice here and put it to good use.
 
I am not a nurse or anything, but I would hope you will seek medical treatment in the event you have this problem again.
 
It makes me nervous to think while everyone hear is tring so much to help you, you are getting sicker.
 
Maybe you dodged a bullet this time...lucky girl.
 
Maybe next time you could go to the ER in a hospital you don't work in...hate to see another addict die in VEIN.
 

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 Message 21 of 25 in Discussion 
From: vinnySent: 10/6/2004 11:44 PM
Hi Josephine!  Great to hear from you.  I, too am completely addicted to heroin, but I still love it.  I smoke it almost every day, and I still shoot up whenever I can.  I'm in a position where I can afford the habit, so I really don't care what the final outcome will be. (I'm not married, have no children, etc.)  However, I realize that there are many people out there who are simply "dying" for their next fix.  What would you like to do next?
 
    Vinny
 

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 Message 22 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamecheanne68Sent: 10/7/2004 2:55 PM
Gee Vinny is that an invitation? Just wondering!

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 Message 23 of 25 in Discussion 
From: vinnySent: 10/8/2004 10:18 PM
Hi - just wondering - have you ever tried shooting into 1 of your feet?  Just near the surface of each foot, you should find a few veins.  For me, it works great!  Let me know what you think.
 
    Vinny
 

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 Message 24 of 25 in Discussion 
From: vinnySent: 12/5/2004 9:24 AM
Hi - I guess it IS!
 
    Vinny
 

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 Message 25 of 25 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamejunkiejen85Sent: 12/20/2004 7:36 PM
The pain you described happened to me once when I shot up OC in my arm.  I also went into seizures.  I think the problem may have been that you shot up valium and an undissolved piece found its way into your bloodstream.  To anyone who reads this...I wouldn't recommend shooting pills.  I have never had the problem with heroin anyways. 
 
 

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