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| | | From: flapjack (Original Message) | Sent: 12/3/2005 5:14 AM |
I don't believe addiction is a disease. It is a health and social issue, but not a disease. It's just the pompous declaration of the medical Medicalocracy of the A.M.A. and such organizations. I am not sick. I like to get high. My neuro-plumbing may be fucked but that was inherent to my being from the beginning and not resultant of my drug use. I am aware that prolonged use of drugs does alter the actions of the brain, perhaps never to regain former proper function. Doctors are idiots. They make too much money, make too many mistakes, have no real love for their craft, and are haughty and condescending to the lay person in general. Especially if said lay person has educated himself and researches his own condition and appeals to a doctor for help in setting a regimen for his recovery and well being having to do with alternative and/or homeopathic remedies in conjunction with advanced western medicines. The same goes for psychiatrists. I'd rather be treated by a shaman or witch doctor, or mid-wife. Leprosy, cancer, diabetes, rheumatism, MS, those are diseases. My getting high, or even wanting to get high is not a disease. It is my will and understanding of my own mind and body and self medication. Nothing more, nothing less. But this all simply my opinion and belief. I just don't care what the 'authorities' have to say about it because they want to keep the layman in the dark anyway because then they wouldn't be able to keep their lofty status as 'benevolent' and finacial pillars of society. This is not to say that all doctors are assholes. I'm sure their are many compassionate practitioners, but the exhorbitant costs preclude many from their advice and treatment, like me. Perhaps I should research some clinics around Philly because it is about time for me to get all those checks and tests such as prostate, full physical, blood work, thyroid and liver tests and cell counts, etc. because I'm thirty eight and have never had a doctor or even seen one in about eighteen years. I am ignorant of the process, but have learned you cannot just go see a doctor anymore; you must have insurance and a primary care physician, blah, blah, blah. I've no medical history or records at all. I guess it doesn't matter all that much, except for the money. Why don't they just socialize it already. If their is irrefutable and empirical proof that addiction is a disease, and not just disease like corrolations, then I wouldn't mind being enlightened, but I still would believe it to be bullshit propagated by the the ones who control the dissemination of medical and psychiatric knowledge and direct the overview in general of such material. Now where'd I put all those pills at... |
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Hi flap, I have always questioned whether addiction was a disease or not myself. I tend to lean towards it being a disease. This is why i think so: When someone uses drugs the brain of an addict quickly changes brain chemisty where the brain of a non addict can abuse drugs and the chemistry doesnt change. The choice to do drugs was initially the persons decision but once the brain chemistry changes the decision becomes more then just wanting to get high. When someone starts to use drugs they get high, when the high wears off they feel normal, when the brain chemistry changes a person needs to do the drugs just to feel normal. This is just my little ole opinion  Also how about the genetic factor here????? Do you have drug abuse or alchohol abuse or addiction in general in your family??? Both of my grandfathers were alchoholics, Both my parents were alchoholics. The genetic factor in My family is pretty high. Im so thrilled you have been around posting, I have always loved reading your thoughts. Much Love Karen p.s. you really should go to a doctor and get a good check-up. Lee would love you for that!!! |
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The great debate. Anyone that has not sucumbed to addiction will tell you that no way is addiction a disease. They will then go on a roll with "Cancer is a disease. People don't choose to get that. Those POOR people now that is a shame. YOU chose your woes". Thank you, thank you. Karen, supposedly they isolated a genetic marker proving that alcoholism is genetic. If that is true I am not sure. Than again it could be a ploy to have to come up with yet another controlled drug to cure us all. I never met my bio-sperm donor, but was always made aware he was an alcoholic. Not a bad man, but a drunk none the less. So it made me wonder if his genes manifested themselves as my dope addiction. What about environment? In my heart I believe my love of dope was not brought on by a love for dope. LOL Although a truer love I could never have had. Albeit a bad one. A dark, ugly, childhood experience is what I choose to believe had me clamoring to get numb, but it may just be a very good excuse. Recently Robert Downey Junior said that, and I wanted to find him, and give him a swift kick. My fear is when "they" decide that you're bi-polar. I mean who ain't bi-polar anymore? Over half the world is bi-polar. When being diagnosed that not long ago I asked the Doc who mind you spoke to me for five minutes "Don't bi-polar people get things done, and excell in a manic phase?" Why yes sireeeeee he says. I said "Well then I ain't bi-polar because I'm a paralyzed procrastinator". Socialized medicine would be wonderful. It ain't happeneing though Too much loot involved. Many Americans are frustrated also when they're in the store paying $300 for their scripts, and an immigrant behind them slaps a welfare card on the counter for the same scripts and pays NOTHING. I understand the frustration of that especially from the elderly who have built up this country, and fought in wars to secure freedoms, and now that has allowed others to profit while they eat cat food. Well, no use getting angry with that today because it's lovely out, and I want to be a nice person. LOL All wonderful things to you all today. Now I'm off to the Docs to watch all the barbie doll drug reps give out free tix to concerts, and sporting events to the Docs who will peddle their wares. Oooops. That wasn't nice, but some of those reps man, they could be in Playboy or GQ. |
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Hey Flap,
Just for argument sake lets call it a disease why would that be a problem?
Personally I am torn even with all the training and schooling that I have been
exposed to. But I am also a realist and I do recognize that the only way people
can have their treatment paid for by their medical insurance is to have it
accepted by mainstream medicine as a medical disease or disorder. And if that's
what it takes for people to get the treatment that they need then I'll tattoo
it on my arse for all to see "addiction is a disease" ? ,lol.
Claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:14
AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] I disagree
about addiction being a disease
I
disagree about addiction being a disease
Reply
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| From: flapjack |
I don't believe addiction is a disease. It is a
health and social issue, but not a disease. It's just the
pompous declaration of the medical Medicalocracy of the A.M.A.
and such organizations. I am not sick. I like to get high. My
neuro-plumbing may be fucked but that was inherent to my being
from the beginning and not resultant of my drug use. I am aware
that prolonged use of drugs does alter the actions of the brain,
perhaps never to regain former proper function. Doctors are
idiots. They make too much money, make too many mistakes, have
no real love for their craft, and are haughty and condescending
to the lay person in general. Especially if said lay person has
educated himself and researches his own condition and appeals to
a doctor for help in setting a regimen for his recovery and well
being having to do with alternative and/or homeopathic remedies
in conjunction with advanced western medicines. The same goes
for psychiatrists. I'd rather be treated by a shaman or witch
doctor, or mid-wife. Leprosy, cancer, diabetes, rheumatism, MS,
those are diseases. My getting high, or even wanting to get
high is not a disease. It is my will and understanding of
my own mind and body and self medication. Nothing more, nothing
less. But this all simply my opinion and belief. I just don't
care what the 'authorities' have to say about it because they
want to keep the layman in the dark anyway because then they
wouldn't be able to keep their lofty status as 'benevolent' and
finacial pillars of society. This is not to say that all doctors
are assholes. I'm sure their are many compassionate
practitioners, but the exhorbitant costs preclude many from
their advice and treatment, like me. Perhaps I should research
some clinics around Philly because it is about time for me to
get all those checks and tests such as prostate, full physical,
blood work, thyroid and liver tests and cell counts, etc.
because I'm thirty eight and have never had a doctor
or even seen one in about eighteen years. I am ignorant of
the process, but have learned you cannot just go see a doctor
anymore; you must have insurance and a primary care physician,
blah, blah, blah. I've no medical history or records at all. I
guess it doesn't matter all that much, except for the money. Why
don't they just socialize it already. If their is irrefutable
and empirical proof that addiction is a disease, and not just
disease like corrolations, then I wouldn't
mind being enlightened, but I still would believe it to be
bullshit propagated by the the ones who control the
dissemination of medical and psychiatric knowledge and
direct the overview in general of such material. Now where'd I
put all those pills
at... | |
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Hey Karen and Gettinthere, flapj here. Just got off work and walked the dog and bought some milk, milk is my other addiction. Ahh, nothing like a tall glass of whole milk, or even gulping right out the jug; if I was on the farm, I'd just suck on that heiffers teat for christ sake. My grandfather on my mom's side(who was dead before I was born)was an alcoholic. From what my mom and grandma said he was a binge drinker. Not drinking for 'x' amount of time and then have a day or two of power consumption. Him and two others, otherwise there is no one else in my family that has problems with drugs or drink. My brother was a weedhead for about twenty five years and my cousin had a bout with the cocaine some years back, but that's it. The rest of my siblings and cousins dabbled and experimented in their teens and early twenties, then let it be. I started getting loaded at seventeen and quickly decided that weed and pills were going to be a part of my life for the forseeable future. I'm thinking there probably is a genetic marker or two but wether or not one becomes an addict is up to the individual, with all sorts of other variables thrown in such as friends, environment, childhood experiences, etc. I'm more or less a binger, y'know, I'll go for a while not indulging, then I go ahead and use for a while, but rarely to the point where I miss work or over do it and flop about in a stupor. I remember those days too though. Eating a bunch of pills and stumbling around making an ass of myself. It was fun. Lately I've been using more often than not so I'm gonna put a lid on it till after new years. When I'm not getting high, I feel OK, other than that I think about drugs alot, but I do that anyway, even when I got some, so I don't really need them it's just a habit. And in the past when I would really over do it alot with the pills and all, when they ran out I would feel like shit for a few days and then get my head together again and my living situation too if need be. I did not think in my mind that I simply could not function or feel normal with out them. Then again I've never used heavily for an extended period of time, like everyday for however many years. I've used heavily for perhaps some weeks or a couple of months at most, so I'm fortunate that my behavior has not lead me down the hardcore path. 90 to 96 were pretty much my worst years as far as drug taking and keeping jobs and apartments. I pissed off alot of my friends and put my mom through alot of grief. I think I'll be using on and off for the rest of my life and I want it to be that way. My brother and I have had many conversations about therapy and counseling for depression and addiction. I am ambivalent about entering into therapy mainly because I am not happy with the decision makers of our world and from what I understand, the therapy and medications are really just methods of control to keep you participating in the system and staying within the grid. You know, how to be happy in this ridiculous reality we have unfolded for ourselves. I do not want to learn to happily adjust to this society, I'd rather stay depressed and angry at it, to utterly reject it. But I also realize that there are other ways to combat depression and they all lay in the realm of changing one's behavior(which the shrinks try to help you to do, with or without medication). Inside, I know that I'm the only one who can help myself. The best psychiatrist and therapy and finest cutting edge medications won't do anything unles I actively try to alter my behavior and perception. So rather than seeing the shrink and taking the meds or whatever, I'll just figure it out for myself. The recipe for being happier for me I think, would be to use my free time more wisely by continuing to paint and draw, start playing my guitar again and begin writing poetry again and keeping a journal, and getting involved in some extracurricular activity like a night class once or twice a week, and/or devote a few hours a week volunteering to help others but I've only recently begun to exercise my artistic talents, but on no regular schedule, I have yet to start a journal again and start strumming the ol' guitar, and I've not looked into or researched earnestly about any classes or volunteering possibilities. I would still be depressed, but not as much because of the altered behavior and new stimuli. It seems so simple, but I'm not doing it. That's the sad part of drug use for me is that I'm content with less and fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way(PinkFloyd), plus, I'm a day dreamer to begin with and I think that's a big reason why I like getting high so much, it totally dovetails with that sort of mindset. Truth to tell, I still don't know what I want to do with my life, other than to stay alive. No goals or plans for the future(I won't get myself started on that one), so I just don't know. I'm a dreamer. And it does feel good to be posting again. Must go now, talk to you all soon OK, love to you both and the rest of the HoH family, flapjack |
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Hi Flap,
The disease model of addiction seems to be pretty widely accepted in the US and in the 12-step world. Bio-psycho-social-spiritual is the model being used in Canada and Europe. There are other models that have been used in different place and at different times. They are all backed by researchh that proves they are real, even when they contradict. Reason being they are all just different ways of describing and understanding the same thing, and the way you look at it somehow changes the way you see it. Unfortunately there hasn't been a model yet that's actually been able to come up with a good treatment - that's why the success rates are so low (if you can even define success anyway).
Personally I like bio-psycho-social-spiritual, but other people disagree. IMO if someone finds a particular model useful, they should stick to it, and if it opressing them, they should reject it. I got clean within the disease model, so it helped me for a while, but as I changed, it started to make me feel trapped, and it didn't make sense anymore, so I evolved and changed my framework. There isn't any right or wrong here, just different understandings. Maybe someone will come up with an understanding that contains some kind of real solution, but no one has solved that puzzle yet. If the disease model doesn't fit for you, then throw it out. These things are all just social constructs - even diseases like cancer, MS, polio, whatever, they are social constructs too, ways to classify clusters of symptoms so that doctors can make some guesses about the best treatment. Humans are funny, we put names on things and it makes them real, but then start believing in these things, and we let our creations destroy us.
I feel for you guys down in the states with the 2 tier, gated medical system, and I fear that Canada is going that way too. There are some excellent docs and psychiatrists, and nurses, and therapists, but there are a lot of wackos from all the professions, and a lot of people who get into it for the wrong reasons. But, Flap, you are perceptive enough to pick out whether someone is trustworthy or not.
Anyways, that's more than enough out of me.
-Curiosity |
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Hey y'all, flapj here. Ah, the social constructs! The agreed upon symbols that allow us to understand/comprehend the things around us that let us comprehend and communicate ideas with one another. This reality is nothing more than an agreed upon hallucination, all because of mutually agreed upon/learned semantics. Oh jeezis. But that's fine. It couldn't be any other way because then no one would be able to understand the other. We'd all be trapped in our own individual thoughts and imaginings thinking everybody else was insane. And the naming of things! I agree that to name something is to give it more power or a life of it's own so to speak. Like SAD, seasonal affective disorder; that didn't exist thirty years ago. Why would we want to give more power to symptoms/behaviors that have always been around by naming them. And like Claude said, what difference doest it make really anyway wether addiction is a disease or not, as long as one is able to get treatment if they so desire. I'd never looked at it that way before. I'm inclined to prefer the bio-psycho-social-spiritual model myself, even though I've not heard of it before now and know nothing of it. Thanks for sharing those bits of knowledge with me and learning me a new angle or two concerning addiction. I'm signing off folks. Much love to y'all, and all the rest of the Heretics, flapjack |
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No, they didn't have S.A.D 30 years ago or 40 years ago when I was growning up in a region where sunshine was the exception. Personally I wish they'd had a name for it back then. May the family doctor might have had a clue why every February he'd either be testing me for mono or to see if I had appendicitis. I just thought I was depressed because I was a weak person and let things get to me. And that not having a boyfriend was making me depressed. So I tried and tried not to let myself get down. I didn't like myself much cuz I'd still be so depressed and it was my fault that I couldn't snap out of it. What a waste of my teen years.
Funny thing was that I felt so much better if we vactioned in FL in March and during summer. |
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