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General : Finally putting up a post:-)
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 Message 1 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MAxi1981  (Original Message)Sent: 12/9/2008 11:25 AM
Hi,
i have been reading the posts on this site now for over a year, but until now have never had the courage to actually post myself. Just by reading other peoples stories it has given me motivation and information but most of all a feeling that i am defnitly not alone in this insanity of addiction. 
I have used Heroin for about 10 years, after the birth of my son in 2005 i swore i would stop, seeing this little being suffer with withdrawals has left me with a guilt i can never let go. But even that, hurting my precious baby boy did'nt stop me from starting again. After 3 failed atttempts on metahdone i am on number 4 and have not used for a year, i started at 160mg and have made it to 7mg. I was sure that by new year i would be clean, i'm not sure if i will make it but i wll defnitly try. The problem is the depression that seems to get more and more intense with each reduction. I am terrified of what i will be like when i am completely clean, it scares me so much. My doctor keeps pushing the anti depressants but i have had bad experiences with these in the past. I have no idea what to do, all i want is to be a good mother to my son and leave all the crap of my past behind me. But it's not that easy and i am at a point where i just don't know.  I know there are many here who have been at this point in some way or another and it would be great to hear how you dealt with the depression, the guilt and the fear of being clean.
 Thanks for an amazing site
Anna 


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Reply
 Message 2 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLovingmom2433Sent: 12/9/2008 4:05 PM
Hi Anna, welcome to H of h, and glad you posted..
The depression is what lingers well after cravings leave.
The reason is because the brain has been damaged and is incapable for making endorphins and dopamine that is resoonsible for well being and happiness.
Usually with a very slow decrease in methadone the brain willl catch up.
It dosent sound like you have had that experince yet and that is why the doctor wants you to take anti-depressants.
Have you ever been on meds for depression??
Hows about the newer ones that are available today?
It takes a while sometimes to find the right meds, but i guarentee once you get on the right meds you will feel SO much better.
Keep talking to your doctor about it,
Love Karen

Reply
 Message 3 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAwnMineesSent: 12/9/2008 11:29 PM
Hi Anna,

Names Jack and I'm fairly new here also. I'm glad you posted and I think you will find that in doing so, a lot of your fear, depression and anxiety about living clean will lessen. I have always had a very hard time trusting anyone or confiding in anyone about my addiction for all the fear's all addicts have. I've had enough rejection in my life and getting a negative reaction just makes me close down and wallow in my anger, shame, embarrassment etc.

I know that the majority of the population seems to have a real problem with the option of anti-depressants but in my experience, it was a necessity and also a matter of finding the right one & dosage. I'm on 20 mg. of Wellbutrin and 10 mg. of Lexapro plus 1 mg. of clonazapan 3/day.

The first anti-depressant I was put on was Prozac and it messed me up bad. It seemed to make everything worse plus the asshole Dr. told me to stop taking them after a month and he was going to put me on something else the next week. What a friggin moron. I crashed fast and hard.

Needless to say, I found another dr. more experienced with these types of med's and we finally came up with the right ones and dosage. It has been a Godsend for me but I still have terrible bouts of depression & anxiety that seem to get triggered by the strangest things.

I get your fear of being clean and how will you handle it but if you flip it and look at it as an active addict, worrying about where you're gonna get your next fix etc., its pretty much the same but without the danger's of staying in the game.

I'm sure you've had people tell you that relapse is a part of recovery and please, don't ever stop your quest to stay clean. Having a child is the ultimate motivator.

Everything Karen said in her post about the brain being damaged from using and thus incapable of making endorphins and dopamine is right on. When I'm starting to get that panic/fear/sick to my gut feeling, I go for a run or to the gym and try to work up my own natural endorphins and it does help. Doesn't hurt to try.

You are definitely not alone in your feelings of insanity - I know it all too well and it sucks. Don't look at your so-called failures at getting clean as failures. With each attempt, you got a little further than you were before. So many of us addicts usually try to get clean because jail or court mandated rehab's attempt to get us clean but as you know, it all boils down to what you want.

And it sounds like you really want it now and especially for your child. Try and have faith and hope in your heart and don't beat yourself up over the past. Try and look forward to where you want to be and start working your way there the best way you can. Ask for help if you need it and people here are always very helpful and have a ton of information.

God Bless, Jack

Reply
 Message 4 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MAxi1981Sent: 12/10/2008 4:18 AM
Thankyou Karen and Jack for your replys:-)
It has really been hard having this burden of a double life, so to find a place where i can admit some of the things that i have done in my life without the fear of being harshly judged is a huge relief. No-one i know is aware of my past/present and it is sometimes a tough act to keep up. Especially when i feel so down and sick and have to pretend i'm fine. 
Karen, the things you said about the brain needing to recover makes sense, but i have alway had  depression/anxiety issues, it seems to run in my family! I have been on different meds since about 16, and i had similar experiances to Jack where the dr. kept putting me from one med to another and the side effects were horrid. I never found one that helped. I guess it does come down to finding the right one/combination, but i don't really have the best GP. Living in a small town makes it hard to find a good one. I have been trying to go to the gym but am majorly low on the motivation front! Just gotta keep on plugging away i guess and eventually i will get there, or so i hope. Are you guys still on Methadone? What are your thoughts on quick reduction? I am so sick of having to go in to my local chemist twice a week that i think i can handle the pysical side effects but if as Karen says the brain needs time to catch up maybe it's not such a good idea? 
Thanks again and till next post:-)
Anna 

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 Message 5 of 15 in Discussion 
From: SoulwingsSent: 12/10/2008 4:32 AM
Hi Anna. Welcome to HOH. I was going to write you to wait for a resonse from Karen but I see she has already posted. She has so much knowledge and good information about methadone I hope you found her post as well as Jack's comforting.
 
My name is Lori. I am the mom of a former heavy drug user. He is clean now just over two years. He has a gorgeous baby and yes, a child is a great motivator. The only experience I have had is with anti depressants. Its important to find the right one and unfortunately the first or second is not always the right one. Listen to your body and talk to your doctor. I wish you all the best. Keep posting!  Lori

Reply
 Message 6 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAwnMineesSent: 12/10/2008 6:29 AM
Hey Anna,

Glad you found some info. and a place you feel safe to ask questions and find no judgment. That's what took me a long time to finally post, I have a lot of issues with trust but I've been made to feel very comfortable here. I think you will also have the same reaction.

I wanted to tell you that I know how hard it is to lead the double life. I'm in the same position. No one really knows about my addiction, I've been able to hide it too well. I work in a bar which for me is perfect. I can be the listener and not feel obligated to share anything personal.

I am in therapy and under the guidance of a very awesome priest and I write a lot. I journal just about every day and getting a lot of shitty, depressing and alone feelings out on paper helps me a lot. I'd be dead without my therapist or priest. If you look back in the posts/threads, there is one I started called "Trust" that will give you my back story and explain a lot about myself.

I don't know enough about methadone myself as I'm still using - a functional user I guess you could say. I want to get on methadone or suboxon but haven't made that step yet. There are a lot of links and I've seen Karen post some specific ones for people, depending on where they live and what clinic's are available.

The only thing I know about methadone is it is a life saver for many people and unfortunately gets a bad rap as exchanging one addiction for another. A lot of controversy but from what I am learning, its a good choice. I also know that trying to lower your dose yourself (not under the supervision of a dr.) is definitely not a good idea. I'm not sure but I get the impression its way too hard and may have the reverse effects, meaning it can make it too hard not to use and you slide back.

I get how hard it is finding a dr. in a small town. Everyone seems to know everyone and that's how rumors and shit start. Is there another town close by that you could get to? I know that after you have been on the program and have a certain number/days etc. of clean UA's that you can get take homes eventually. That's about all I know on the subject but I'm sure some member's who know far more will share what they know.

And its easy to make excuses why you shouldn't try something, I get that so well. But, if you're even thinking about it, then you know its something you should give a try. Or at least look at all your options.

Glad you replied and I hope you keep posting. It really does help.

God Bless, Jack.

Reply
 Message 7 of 15 in Discussion 
From: luckySent: 12/10/2008 4:47 PM
I havent posted on here for years - but just read your thread... the bit about you reducing from 160(?) to 7mgs is too fast which is why you are having trouble a solution could be too up your dose.I am an unqualified expert in 'done and 10% a month reduction is probably the way to go so from 160 to 144 to 130 to 117 to well you can do the maths.I am not saying go back to 160 but maybe to 60-70 then start the reduction. Remember with 'done the slower the taper the better.

lucky

Reply
 Message 8 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLovingmom2433Sent: 12/10/2008 11:58 PM
((((((Lucky))))))  its so great to see you post, Love Karen

Reply
 Message 9 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MAxi1981Sent: 12/11/2008 12:49 AM
Thanks again everyone for replying,
It's so cool how helpful everyone has been. I was quite nervous when i put my first post up, even though i had gotten the general feeling that this was a safe place to talk about this stuff, it was still daunting waiting to see what replys i would get. And so far it has been fantastic:-) truely an amazing site!
It has given me a bit of a boost just knowing that i can come here and vent if need be, because really other than my doctor (who is not particularily helpfull anyway) there is no one else.
I have been reducing very quickly the last year for 2 reasons, one my doctors insistance and two, my need to be able to live my life again without the constraints of Methadone. I guess in a way i could be setting myself up for a fall but i am soooo sick of this. Plus there is the added threat that each day i go to the chemist i will see someone i know and they will find out. Like i said in my last reply, living a double life is really exausting. It's like living a lie, something i guess most addicts can relate too. I can entirely understand your reasoning Lucky about going up again in dose but it would feel like too much hard work gone down the drain, i feel like either way it's going to hurt to stop, so i may as well do it quickly. But then i don't want to put myself in a vulnurable position either. I can't imagine using again, but i have thought that before. i am also far away from the people that i was using with so that helps. 
On another subject, over the past months of reading the posts here i have noticed that in the U.S there seems to be a very different system to here in Australia in regards to Methadone. I have never had to undergo UA's or anything like that. Here we are only allowed 5 Takeaways a week and that's only after 6 months of treatment and if the doc approves it. I have heard people write about split dosing as well? which sounds like it would make reducing alot easier. We only get one dose every 24hours, no exceptions. I would love to hear abit about the system over there in the U.S (and anywhere else as well), it sounds so much more sofisticated than here!  
Jack your replys especially have given me some new ideas on how to go about this, i think therapy would be great, but it's not easy to access here. And to find a good therapist is even harder. But i will try. Journaling also sounds good, i guess it's better down on paper than in my head! I think you sould defnitly try and get on some sort of a program, apart from being better for your body (cleaner) it is less expensive and safer. I did use for a long time and work, do the playgroup mum thing and have this other life behind closed doors but its so draining to keep that up. I did'nt realise how much until i really stopped. But it has to be the right time, otherwise you end up going back. Like everyone has said children are the best motivation. I never want to hurt my son again, even not being 100% emotionally available to him is something i don't want to put him through ever again. Now i just gotta find a good plan and all will be good! 
Thanks again everyone:-)
Anna
 

Reply
 Message 10 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAwnMineesSent: 12/11/2008 6:50 AM
Hey Anna,

I'm glad you are getting some good information and idea's to help you along. Like I said, I'm fairly new and I was really blown away to get the replies I got after my first post. I finally felt like I had an outlet where people would really get what I am dealing with.

The writing thing really helps me as I read and reread what comes tumbling out and it seems to help me arrange things in my head, kind of compartmentalize shit, ya know? I can weed out what makes sense and what doesn't.

As for therapy, my first one was awful. All he did was wait for me to start talking and he'd listen and then "Oh, time's up. See you next week." I kept waiting for some kind of report card or acknowledgment or something. My M.D. finally recommended the man I'm under the care of now and he's the complete opposite. He asks questions, offer's suggestions, has a memory like an elephant which is great cause I don't.

He has been the driving force for me, along with one of the priests at my church who knows my situation. I like to think one is saving my life and sanity and the other is busting his ass to save my soul. (My therapist and M.D. work in conjunction that saves a lot of my relating information from one to the other and also helps them to work on what the best treatment is for me. They're awesome.)

They don't look at me or talk to me any different than they would anyone else. No judgment, just real concern and great advice. I think finding the right support (like here), M.D. etc. are so important. Here, finding I'm not alone in my stupidity (not calling anyone else stupid, just myself) has changed how I cope with stuff a lot better than I was.

Anna, one thing you said caught me, kind of like a little red flag. We addicts are great at setting ourselves up for failure, come up with every excuse in the world topped with dealing with the physical cravings. You said "it has to be the right time, otherwise you end up going back." It reminded me of my buddies wife when they began deciding when to begin their family.

He was anxious (as most men are) and said he wanted to wait until they had more money. The general consensus I got from everyone's input was "if you wait until you have more $, you'll never start". It seems to be true in that particular case. Just a kind of parallel for you to think of. You sound like you've come so far and I commend you for that. I wish I was there and I'm working on it.

I think when you get the basic's of your plan (which posting here will hopefully help you to) and you put it into motion, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. And at least you have something so precious in your life that will hopefully strengthen your desire to stay clean and move on and away from the game. Not one worth playing but we all find out too late, huh?

God Bless, Jack

Reply
 Message 11 of 15 in Discussion 
From: luckySent: 12/11/2008 11:50 PM
DONT PUT PRESSURE tON YOURSELF!!! dope doesnt work to timetables and as the stones said ..."you dont always get what you want but you get what you need" I am on my 4th methadone journey I started this one 5 years ago on 80mgs am am now on 15mgs i have talked to my doc about switching to MST (morphine) as it has a much shorter halflife so easy to come off totally but hey i may just stay on this dose till i die (think of it as medicine - if your diabetic you need insulinn everyday right?) My last attempt at quitting got fucked because i dropped to quickly - remember 'done has x2 effects ;it stops you getting sick but it also stops the cravings(at doses above 70-80)... I seem to be waffling here but go easy you said you were woried about people seeing u at the chemist? what about when u were using when they could have seen u scoring.
Good luck in what you decide to do - if your doc isnt giving the advice you need find another!
lucky

p.s i ought to admiyt that i still use gear 2-3 times a month!

Reply
 Message 12 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MAxi1981Sent: 12/12/2008 2:12 AM
Hey Lucky,
This is also my 4th try on Methadone through a chemist (in the last 4 years or so), although this is the first time i'm not using whilst on methadone! When my using was at its worst i was living overseas in Berlin so big city easy to hide, when i came back to Australia i was 5months pregnant, and brought 1litre meth with me (don't ask me how i managed to get it through customs, must have had someone looking over me!) Up until my son was born i managed to ween myself down to 10mg on my own but then his dad came over from Berlin with shit loads of gear and it all went down the drain. So my son went through hell after he was born and i was right back where i began. The docs put him on morphine and me on meth, they thought i had stopped using but my sons dad was still around so there was no hope. Basically i never had to score in Australia, i always had it around which made leading my double life alot easier. Most people i know here would be really shocked if they knew, especially my mother who is the only family i have in Australia. I'm really good at hiding things i guess, but when i'm in the chemist theres no where to hide, i get dosed in front of basically the whole shop, so if someone walks in that knows me or my mum or someone i work with it would be really fucked. So far i have gotten away with it but it really is only a matter of time.  It's a bit of a dilema, because at the rate i am reducing the withdrawals are quite constant, but i just want off the shit. So over it. I wonder if they do MST here, is it easier in regards to physical withdrawals? I think Australia is really behind in regards to opiate addiction therapy, so MST probably is'nt even an option here. 
I agree with you that it is a medicine, but there are so many predudices surrounding it, if i could stay on a level dose without it affecting the rest of my life, like family and work i would no questions. But i gotta think of my son too, as he gets older he will understand more.  
I gotta find a sulution somewhere and this wedsite is really helping, just getting other peoples views on things is great. Wow have really over rambled now.
thankyou for you reply, i hope all is well with you and that you are having a happy, safe christmas, and everyone else too:-)
 Anna

Reply
 Message 13 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameRed_violet20021Sent: 12/17/2008 8:49 PM
wow good for you  for trying to cut down that is awesome I want you to know thats a big deal  finding the the time for readyiness  wow I compilment you big time. My name is Tina I am on 200mils for pain management but yes I am a herion addict and a very greety person when I am using. I have not abussed since july 25 2007 and I am going to be cutting down also BUT that big old BUT I suggest to you to really do it slow downt put yourself in stress over it it is ok just to express your fears indeed but really dont make it any harder than it is. OUR minds are a beautiful thing hey? I too am scared but I feal ready. My Methadone dr is very good we are on the same page and I came down from 240mils to 200 and it has been 6 months back and forth and finally stable on 200mils for this time. I dont allow myself to hurt me today I do what ever it takes to keep me bussy plus in recovery. I attend a group for relase prevention it is great. Heres my number call me and if I am not home please leave me your area code your in plus your number I got a great deal on long distance plane so I will call you back as soon as I get your number. 250-473-5759 is my phone number. who ever else would just like to talk call me I will call you back so it will only be that minute you talk to my machine if I am not home. Tina is my name 17 months clean xmas day. I live in British Columbia 250 area code thats important to leave me area code as if your in detrot or what ever I can at least call you back. I am hoping I am home when you do call but please be assured I look forward  in talking with anyone in recovery or even struggling as this is what life is right? kinda like  doing self help work hahaha ok  all Merry Xmas and nothing but the best in the new year Blessings to all use my email and number please call any one thats here and working it and looking for the  rewards called freedom from substances . ok all bye for now I am working on a computer at home I really am praying I get one affordable. ok love always your friend in recovery Tina Headley


From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Finally putting up a post:-)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:47:14 -0800

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New Message on Heritics of Heroin

Finally putting up a post:-)

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  Reply to Sender   Recommend Message 7 in Discussion
From: lucky

I havent posted on here for years - but just read your thread... the bit about you reducing from 160(?) to 7mgs is too fast which is why you are having trouble a solution could be too up your dose.I am an unqualified expert in 'done and 10% a month reduction is probably the way to go so from 160 to 144 to 130 to 117 to well you can do the maths.I am not saying go back to 160 but maybe to 60-70 then start the reduction. Remember with 'done the slower the taper the better.

lucky

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 Message 14 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLovingmom2433Sent: 12/18/2008 1:32 AM
Tina, its possible to wean off methadone painless but it needs to be done SOOOOO slooooowww.
The person weaning down has to be patient along with a patient doctor.
There is no reason a person has to suffer needlessly.
 
Im SO GLAD to hear your doing so well,,
Ive missed you..
Have a WONDERFUL Holiday, Love Karen

Reply
 Message 15 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MAxi1981Sent: 12/18/2008 10:54 AM
Hey all:-)
 
I am indeed putting myself through an insanely fast withdrawal, i am defnitly not a patient person. Which is something that has gotten me into trouble so many times before! Have started antidepressants now as well as valium to take to egde off a bit but still having constant mild withdrawals everyday. I don't think it is possible to have a completely painless methadone withdrawal, and so far i have never come across anyone who has. Hopefully someone here will prove me wrong!:-) I wanted to be completely drugfree for newyear but maybe i'll have to hold back a bit this last 7mg seems to be the hardest.
 
Tina: Thankyou for your lovely reply, and congradulations for 17 months off the gear, that's fantastic! I would love to chat but i live in Australia which could be quite expensive, and i am not sure of time zones and all that. But it would be great to talk to someone in the same boat. Let me know what you think. You can email me as well if you like [email protected]  
 
Wishing everyone here a fantastic christmas and hope all are doing ok
 
 
Anna

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