|
|
 |
|
Reply
| | | From: raskalnikov (Original Message) | Sent: 3/17/2005 6:58 PM |
Some time ago while browsing through some of the links on this sight I came across a study done in Europe regarding what was an "adequate" dose of methadone for maintenance purposes. Their conclusion was that people can be very different in the way and the speed in which they metabolize methadone. What they did basically was let the patient call the shots as to increasing or maintaining at, what for them was a comfortable level. The result was that an "adequate dosage ranged from 700mg a day for one woman in England to a low of about 20 mg per day. The conclusion, of course, was that all patients should be treated individually and not be forced into a system where they are given an insufficient dosage. I am trying to find this study again to show to my Doctor who for the most part is pretty good but does have a bit of a bias against what she considers too large a dosage. I seem to remember that it might have been a sight connected to the Soros Foundation but I coul be wrong about that. If anyone has read this study and knows where to find it could you please steer me in the right direction? I'd really appreciate it. Thank you,
raskolnikov |
|
 First
Previous
2-16 of 16
Next
Last
|
Reply
| | | From: Indigo | Sent: 3/17/2005 11:33 PM |
There is no such thing as a normal dose of methadone--but for many years most countries (USA, England, Canada etc) "undermedicated" their patients--40 to 60 mg was considered adequate for most junkies--As of late the Global consensus on adequate methadone levels (no cravings & not able to cut through the methadone with heroin) ranges from 80mg to 120 mg for the majority of junkies....There is a test called a peak & trough test that measures the rate that your body metabolizes ones methadone--this test has shown that some individuals need 200 or 300 mgs in some cases or even more--Unfortunately most clinics will not perform this test for various reasons including cost--But I guess one could always pay out of their own pocket as a last resort....We're all different & there is no "one size fits all" solution to this problem..... |
|
Reply
| | From:  ©Sha | Sent: 3/18/2005 5:00 PM |
Yea that link is ringing a bell..tried to find it last night..no luck. Do you remember if you found it in a message someone posted or under the 'Links" section of the board (to the left of this screen)? Will keep looking Sha |
|
Reply
| | | From: lucky | Sent: 3/18/2005 10:17 PM |
ive had raging habits before and can honestly say that 50mgs of done will stop me being sick even on 3g a day habit- i dont understand people over there(usa) who are on 200mgs or so why?I took 90mgs an hour ago and am begining to get a buz now- i have a script for 40 a day but have used the last couple of days- smoked a bag today fuckin huge , nice and clean just ran down the foil like molasses still miss the rush of a dig tho, i thought that after 3 years my veins would 'grow'back no fuckin chance- and im still still scared to try the groin - shame i dont know any nurses at least they could show me where to hit the the damn thing Lucky |
|
Reply
| | | From: Marco | Sent: 3/18/2005 10:40 PM |
Hey Lucky, there's a huge difference between not being sick and not having any cravings. I completely agree that 50mg would keep just about anyone from being sick, but my experience has been that most (but not all) people still have strong cravings at 50mg. The "normal" range in the US is 80 - 120mg, but the whole point of methadone is to get to whatever dose you need so that you're not craving dope. The times I've been on methadone, I had to get to about 150mg before I could honestly say that I wasn't craving. At that dose I wasn't thinking about dope, wasn't getting high, was just living a normal life. But if I went down to 130 or 120, the cravings would start up and I'd spend half my day thinking about dope. There are people here, (Claude for example) who know far more about methadone than me, but I do know that the point is not to take an amount that keeps you from getting sick, but to get on a stable amount where you're not craving dope. And while that may have something to do with metabolism, that's only part of the reason. Some people just need a larger dose of opiates to keep their receptors occupied so they don't spend their days craving. I know you enjoy using and I have no interest in changing that, but should you ever want to stop, get on a higher dose of methadone and you shouldn't even be thinking about H or craving it. Marco |
|
Reply
| |
|
Marco,
I wish you stop selling yourself short as your knowledge of the subject is
respectable and what you stated to lucky was right on the money I appreciate the
props you awarded me but your knowledge of methadone surpasses my knowledge
of bup,lol.
Lucky, Marco gave you excellent advice and
as he stated the goal in using methadone as a treatment modality is to reach a
level of normalcy (what ever that may be,it is different for everyone) you want
to feel like you have not taken any medications while feeling free of w/d and
cravings no matter what dose that may take you to. The best way is to forget
about a dose and to keep going up while evaluating how one is responding and the
time to stop increasing your dose is when dope is not on the mind and sickness
is a thing of the pass.
The mistake allot of people (and the
doctors are guilty of this) that target a number to reach and accept how they
feel once reaching that dose and that is considered poor
treatment.
I do realize that people that are not ready
to give up using they try to balance out a dose of methadone that is high enough
to keep one from going into full w/d but at the same time low enough so that
they are able to feel their heroin when they use. This was not giving one the
full benefit of methadone but it's not for me to judge nor tell someone that
they are wrong as I did the very same thing early on in my attempt to stop using
smack and it took me a process to reach the beginning of recovery in my own time
so the same thing will happen for you when you are ready in your time. So lucky
I wish you the best and if you ever need my help all you have to do is give a
shout
out.
Claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:40
PM
Subject: Re: need help finding a
link
need help
finding a link
Reply
|
|
| From: Marco |
Hey Lucky, there's a huge difference between not being sick
and not having any cravings. I completely agree that 50mg
would keep just about anyone from being sick, but my experience
has been that most (but not all) people still have
strong cravings at 50mg. The "normal" range in the US
is 80 - 120mg, but the whole point of methadone is to get to
whatever dose you need so that you're not craving dope.
The times I've been on methadone, I had to get to about
150mg before I could honestly say that I wasn't craving.
At that dose I wasn't thinking about dope, wasn't getting high,
was just living a normal life. But if I went down to 130
or 120, the cravings would start up and I'd spend half my day
thinking about dope.
There are people here, (Claude for example) who know far
more about methadone than me, but I do know that the point is
not to take an amount that keeps you from getting sick, but to
get on a stable amount where you're not craving dope. And
while that may have something to do with metabolism, that's only
part of the reason. Some people just need a larger dose of
opiates to keep their receptors occupied so they don't spend
their days craving.
I know you enjoy using and I have no interest in changing
that, but should you ever want to stop, get on a higher dose of
methadone and you shouldn't even be thinking about H or craving
it.
Marco | |
View other groups in this
category.
|
|
Reply
| |
|
Lucky, first of all your 90 is equal to 180
in the usa because you use a diff formula of methadone also everyone is
different and not everyone is on 200 but there are some on 500 and some on 50
and whatever works is what the dose should be.
claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:17
PM
Subject: Re: need help finding a
link
need help
finding a link
Reply
|
|
| From: lucky |
ive had raging habits before and can honestly say that
50mgs of done will stop me being sick even on 3g a day habit- i
dont understand people over there(usa) who are on 200mgs or so
why?I took 90mgs an hour ago and am begining to get a buz now- i
have a script for 40 a day but have used the last couple of
days- smoked a bag today fuckin huge , nice and clean just ran
down the foil like molasses still miss the rush of a dig tho,
i thought that after 3 years my veins would 'grow'back no
fuckin chance- and im still still scared to try the groin -
shame i dont know any nurses at least they could show me where
to hit the the damn thing
Lucky | |
View other groups in this
category.
|
|
Reply
| |
|
Indigo,
even the p & t test is not 100% due to the fact that in the usa we use
racemic mix of methadone and only 50% of the methadone given is active and the
test cannot distinquish the difference between the active and non-active also
most doctors don't really know how to use them properly and there are still
other variables involved that one's dose should not be denied because of
or lack of a test. The best judge is the patient and when we these jack/asses
learn this.
claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:33
PM
Subject: Re: need help finding a
link
need help
finding a link
Reply
|
|
| From: Indigo |
There is no such thing as a normal dose of methadone--but
for many years most countries (USA, England, Canada etc)
"undermedicated" their patients--40 to 60 mg was considered
adequate for most junkies--As of late the Global consensus on
adequate methadone levels (no cravings & not able to cut
through the methadone with heroin) ranges from 80mg to 120 mg
for the majority of junkies....There is a test called a peak
& trough test that measures the rate that your body
metabolizes ones methadone--this test has shown that some
individuals need 200 or 300 mgs in some cases or even
more--Unfortunately most clinics will not perform this test for
various reasons including cost--But I guess one could always pay
out of their own pocket as a last resort....We're all different
& there is no "one size fits all" solution to this
problem..... | |
View other groups in this
category.
|
|
Reply
| |
Well, I see I got a thread going but still no luck finding that link I was looking for... and yes Sha it was from the links on the home page that I started but I get so carried away following one link after another that I might start reading about methadone and end up with an article on marsupials or something.... so much to read, so little time... Yes Indigo, I am aware of most of the things you said in your reply about the peak and trough testing and how there can be huge differences in the way different people metabolize methadone. I am currently on a split dose of 120mg am and 30mg pm because I was metabolizing the meth too fast and I was wakuing up ill every morning. I finally got a decent Dr. who actually believed me and didn't automatically think I was trying to pull a scam or something. Unfortunately he moved to Tuktoyaktuk, NWT to minister to the Eskimeaux and and the rough necks working the rigs in the Arctic Ocean... I wasn't prepared to follow him. The thing is that I want to get an increase in the pm dose as I don't feel it's enough and I've started doing my carries before my next one is due and then having to buy more from certain unamed (of course) sources. I now have a Dr. who isn't too bad but not quite as well informed as my previous one so I wanted to bring her this study in printed form so it's not just me flapping my lips but having something concrete to show her that she can follow up on as there were a lot of other links there pertaining to the same subject. Something I did read in this thread that I didn't know about though was this racemic methadone given in the U.S. Are you saying that 100mg in the U.S. is only equivalent to 50mg in Canada? If so, that's a new one to me... ...later... I managed to find one study done by a Dr. Payte that goes into the peak/trough effect and what he considers to be an adequate trough level (In the 400ng/mg range) but it isn't quite as definitive as this other study I was referring to. So, if anyone happens to trip over it I would still like to know how to find it. Yours, etc., etc., raskolnikov |
|
Reply
| | | From: ©Sha | Sent: 3/23/2005 6:54 PM |
Okay I'll keep lQQking. Lol yea I do the same thing..sometimes my pc shuts down cause I have so many pages open that all started from one or two links..such is the scattered mind sometimes.  |
| |
Reply
| |
| This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager. |
|
Reply
| | | From: ©Sha | Sent: 3/23/2005 7:37 PM |
right..forgot to ask if maybe the study you were reading was could've been on "management of breakthrough pain?" I seem to recall one that spoke of a study done on dosage (not related to BTP). Or maybe it was a references taken from the authors sources. Anyway I added the references at the bottom of this page..see if you maybe got it from here there arequite a few Peyte et eal studies...if it is one of these...let me know the name and I'll look for it if you can't find it online.: Sorry for the above delete...it was mine and it was a mess...so reposted. Sha References 1. Chen, K.K. (1948). Pharmacology of methadone and related compounds. Annals: New York Academy of Sciences, 51, 83�?4.<O:P></O:P> 2. Crews, J.C., Sweeney, N.J., & Denson, D.D. (1993). Clinical efficacy of methadone in patients refractory to other m-opioid receptor agonist analgesics for management of terminal cancer pain. Cancer, 72, 2266�?272.<O:P></O:P> 3. Denson, D.D., Concilus, R.R., Gregg, R.V., & Crews, J.C. (1990). The correlation between predicted and measured patient specific analgesic concentrations after intravenous titration: a guide for initial maintenance requirements with methadone. Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 30, 1049�?054.<O:P></O:P> 4. Fainsinger, R., Schoeller, T., & Bruera, E. (1993). Methadone on the management of cancer pain: a review. Pain, 52, 137�?47.<O:P></O:P> 5. Gourlay, G.K., Cherry, D.A., & Cousins, M.J. (1986). A comparative study of the efficacy and pharmacokinetics of oral methadone and morphine in the treatment of severe pain in patients with cancer. Pain, 25, 297�?12.<O:P></O:P> 6. Irick, N.E. (1987). Methadone: pluses and minuses. Indiana Medicine, 80, 142�?43.<O:P></O:P> 7. Manfredi, P.L., Borsook, D., Chandler, S.W., & Payne, R. (1997). Intravenous methadone for cancer pain unrelieved by morphine and hydromorphone: clinical observations. Pain, 70, 313�?16.<O:P></O:P> 8. Mercadante, S. (1999). Opioid rotation for cancer pain: Rationale and clinical aspects. Cancer, 86, 1856�?866.<O:P></O:P> 9. Mercadante, S., Casuccio A., & Calderone, L. (1999). Rapid switching from morphine to methadone in cancer patients with poor response to morphine. Journal of Clinical Oncology, 17, 3307�?312.<O:P></O:P> 10. Mercadante, S., Sapio, M., Serretta, R., & Caligara, M. (1996). Patient-controlled analgesia with oral methadone in cancer pain: Preliminary report. Annals of Oncology, 7, 613�?17.<O:P></O:P> 11. Payte, J.T. (1997). Methadone maintenance treatment: The first thirty years. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 29, 149�?50.<O:P></O:P> 12. Payte, J.T. (1991). A brief history of methadone in the treatment of opioid dependence: A personal perspective. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 23, 103�?07.<O:P></O:P> 13. Portenoy, R.K., & Foley, K.M. (1986). Chronic use of opioid analgesics in non-malignant pain: Report of 38 cases. Pain, 25, 171�?86.<O:P></O:P> 14. Ripamaonti, C., Zecca, E., & Bruera, E. (1997). An update on the clinical use of methadone for cancer pain. Pain, 70,109�?15.<O:P></O:P> 15. Rosenbaum, M. (1995). The demedicalization of methadone maintenance. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 27, 145�?46.<O:P></O:P> 16. Sawe, J. (1986). High-dose morphine and methadone in cancer patients. Clinical Pharmacokinetics, 11, 87�?06.<O:P></O:P> 17. Zweben, J.E., & Payte, J.T. (1990). Methadone maintenance in the treatment of opioid dependence: A current perspective. The Western Journal of Medicine, 152, 588�?99. <O:P></O:P> 18. Baselt RC and Cravey RH, Disposition of Toxic Drugs and Chemicals in Man, 3rd ed, Chicago, IL: Year Book Medical Publishers Inc, 1989, 512-5. <O:P></O:P> 19. Bryson PD, Comprehensive Review in Toxicology, 2nd ed, Rockville, MD: Aspen Publishers Inc, 1989, 329. <O:P></O:P> 20. Calsyn DA, Saxon AJ, and Barndt DC, "Urine Screening Practices in Methadone Maintenance Clinics. A Survey of How the Results are Used,"J Nerv Ment Dis, 1991, 179(4):222-7. <O:P></O:P> 21. Wolff K, Hay AW, and Raistrick D, "Plasma Methadone Measurements and Their Role in Methadone Detoxification Programs,"Clin Chem, 1992, 38(3):420-5. <O:P></O:P> 22. Wolff K, Sanderson M, Hay AW, et al, "Methadone Concentrations in Plasma and Their Relationship to Drug Dosage,"Clin Chem, 1991, 37(2):205-9.<O:P></O:P> 23. NMDA-receptor antagonists in neuropathic pain:experimental methods to clinical trials. Sang CN. Massachusetts General Hospital, Department of Anesthesiology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, USA. J Pain Symptom Manage 2000 Jan; 19(1 Suppl):S21-5<O:P></O:P> 24. Are NMDA receptors involved in opiate-induced neural and behavioral plasticity? A review of preclinical studies. Trujillo KA. Psychology Program, California State University San Marcos, 92096-0001, USA. Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2000 Aug; 151(2-3):121-41<O:P></O:P> 25. Therapeutic potential of NMDA receptor antagonists in the treatment of alcohol and substance use disorders. Bisaga A, Popik P, Bespalov AY, Danysz W. New York State Psychiatric Institute, Unit #120, 1051 Riverside Dr., New York, NY 10032, USA. Expert Opin Investig Drugs 2000 Oct; 9(10):2233-48<O:P></O:P> 26. NMDA-receptor antagonists and opioid receptor interactions as related to analgesia and tolerance. Price DD, Mayer DJ, Mao J, Caruso FS. Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, University of Florida, USA. J Pain Symptom Manage 2000 Jan; 19(1 Suppl):S7-11<O:P></O:P> 27. Clinically available NMDA receptor antagonists memantine and dextromethorphan reverse existing tolerance to the antinociceptive effects of morphine in mice. Popik P, Kozela E, Danysz W. Institute of Pharmacology, Polish Academy of Sciences, Krakow. Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol 2000 Apr; 361(4): 425-32<O:P></O:P> 28. The use of NMDA-receptor antagonists in the treatment of chronic pain. Hewitt DJ Department of Neurology, Emory University Medical Center, Atlanta, Georgia, USA. Clin J Pain 2000 Jun; 16(2 Suppl):S73-9.<O:P></O:P> 29. Opioid analgesics as noncompetitive N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) antagonists. Ebert B, Thorkildsen C, Andersen S, Christrup LL, Hjeds H. PharmaBiotec Research Center, Department of Pharmacology, The Royal Danish School of Pharmacy, Copenhagen. Biochem Pharmacol 1998 Sep 1;56(5):553-9<O:P></O:P> 30. Wolff, K., Sanderson, M., Hay, AWM, and Raistrick, D., Methadone Concentrations in plasma and Their Relationship to Drug Dosage. Clin. Chem. 37/2, pgs. 205-209 (1971) http://www.ncpainmanagement.com/MethadonePhysinfo.htm Another link:
|
|
Reply
| |
|
In the UK they use a non racemic mix and
their 50mg dose is = to 100mg in the states. I understand that some parts of
canada may be using the same formula but I'm not sure which one you may be
getting but it would be very easy to find out by just asking if the methadone
being used is (R) methadone which is the active part or the racemic mix which is
half active and half inactive.
Are you saying that 100mg in the U.S. is only equivalent to 50mg in
Canada? If so, that's a new one to me...
That is providing they are using the
R-methadone which is only the active part, and in the US they use 50mg active +
50mg inactive which gives you the 100mg but only the active part(50mg) is
doing the work.
claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:51
PM
Subject: Re: need help finding a
link
need help
finding a link
Reply
|
|
| From: raskalnikov |
Well, I see I got a thread going but still no luck finding
that link I was looking for... and yes Sha it was from the links
on the home page that I started but I get so carried away
following one link after another that I might start reading
about methadone and end up with an article on marsupials or
something.... so much to read, so little time...
Yes Indigo, I am aware of most of the things you said in
your reply about the peak and trough testing and how
there can be huge differences in the way different
people metabolize methadone. I am currently on a split dose of
120mg am and 30mg pm because I was metabolizing the meth too
fast and I was wakuing up ill every morning. I finally got a
decent Dr. who actually believed me and didn't automatically
think I was trying to pull a scam or something.
Unfortunately he moved to Tuktoyaktuk, NWT to minister to the
Eskimeaux and and the rough necks working the rigs in the Arctic
Ocean... I wasn't prepared to follow him. The thing is that
I want to get an increase in the pm dose as I don't feel it's
enough and I've started doing my carries before my next one is
due and then having to buy more from certain unamed (of course)
sources. I now have a Dr. who isn't too bad but not quite
as well informed as my previous one so I wanted to bring her
this study in printed form so it's not just me flapping my lips
but having something concrete to show her that she can follow up
on as there were a lot of other links there pertaining to the
same subject.
Something I did read in this thread that I didn't know
about though was this racemic methadone given in the U.S.
Are you saying that 100mg in the U.S. is only equivalent to 50mg
in Canada? If so, that's a new one to me...
...later...
I managed to find one study done by a Dr. Payte that goes
into the peak/trough effect and what he considers to be an
adequate trough level (In the 400ng/mg range) but it isn't quite
as definitive as this other study I was referring to. So,
if anyone happens to trip over it I would still like to know how
to find it.
Yours, etc., etc.,
raskolnikov
| |
View other groups in this
category.
|
|
Reply
| |
I live out on the west coast, (Vancouver Island), and I started using heroin in 1968 and I've gone on methadone twice during that time, this time I've been on it for about 8 years and I thought I was quite knowledgable on subjects pertaining to opiate type drugs but I must say I've never heard of racemic methadone. I would be quite surprised if we were using it here but I am going to ask my pharmacist tomorrow when I go for my weekly. I don't understand the logic behind using it if it is a completely inert substance; just to make it sound like your dose is higher than it really is or what? Would the label on the prescription read R-Methadone? Speaking of this reminded me of something that happened to me several years ago... a friend had burgled a pharmacy and as he was on parole he didn't want to have it around his place so he dumped it all on me to sell for him. Well, needless to say I was my own best customer and I started with the Dilaudid and worked my way down to codeine phosphate with the whole range in between of course. Well, all good things must end and one day I find myself sick and the only thing left in the bag were two bottles of cough syrup labelled "Cophylac" I checked out the ingredients and, amongst a whole lot of other shit I see "Normethadone". It said to take one or two drops per dose and it had a little plastic top with a very small hole that would only dispense a drop at a time. I phoned a pharmacist and played the dummy with him asking "...is that the same stuff those damn hippies take to get high or what? 'cause I don't want to get myself addicted to no dope, etc..." He reassured me that although it was a similar drug and that it was addictive that if I only used it occasionlly and under my Dr.'s supervision I would be OK. Wellll.... I think to myself after doing some rapid math in my head... if a drop is good for a cough the whole bottle should be about right for me. You know, how most, (if not all), junkies think - if one is good then ten should be a lot better. I should add that they were very small bottles, holding maybe 50 ml, I don't know if it was the "Normethadone" or, more likely, some additive to prevent accidental OD but it was like drinking a bottle of ipecac, (which I also did once - but that's another story). Anyway, I was so sick that I thought I was going to turn myself inside out. I mean it completely emptied me in about 2 minutes and then I had the dry heaves for about what seemed like 4 or 5 hours but I'm sure was much less. Suffice it to say that it seemed like forever to me. Now here comes the really stupid part... the next day I'm getting very dope-sick so I rationalize that I probably just took too much the first time, so I'll try just a quarter of a bottle today... I'll let you guess at the results but let's just say it was like "instant replay"... Has anyone heard of this stuff? If not and you come across some, take it from me, unless you're a chemist and can isolate the "good" part, I would throw it as far and as fast as you can... really bad experience. Oh, the other three quarters of a bottle? I gave it to my cat to get rid of those furballs once and for all... just kidding... I threw it down the shitter like I should have done in the first place. Hey sha, thanks for doing all the research but none of those you listed ring any bells for me and it wasn't about pain management, it was about methadone maintenance for addicts. The study was done by allowing the participants to stop at a level where they felt comfortable not an arbitrary number that some bureaucrat laid down as THE amount that addicts should be given. Gotta' go now... take it cool boys and girls, raskolnikov |
|
Reply
| |
|
From what I understand the racemic
mix came about years ago when they were doing research on using methadone for
opiate treatment well in the trials somepeople got the active methadone and some
got the inactive as they both look and taste the same so no one but the
scientists knew who was taking which one. For some reason that no one can seem
to remember why the inactive part ended up in the final product and till today
it remained. In Europe they use only R-methadone which is the active part. If
you google racemic+methadone you will find tons of info on the
subject.
claude
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:22
PM
Subject: Re: need help finding a
link
need help
finding a link
Reply
|
|
| From: raskalnikov |
I live out on the west coast, (Vancouver Island), and I
started using heroin in 1968 and I've gone on methadone twice
during that time, this time I've been on it for about 8 years
and I thought I was quite knowledgable on subjects pertaining to
opiate type drugs but I must say I've never heard of
racemic methadone. I would be quite surprised if we were using
it here but I am going to ask my pharmacist tomorrow when I go
for my weekly. I don't understand the logic behind using
it if it is a completely inert substance; just to make it sound
like your dose is higher than it really is or what? Would the
label on the prescription read R-Methadone? Speaking of this
reminded me of something that happened to me several years
ago... a friend had burgled a pharmacy and as he was on parole
he didn't want to have it around his place so he dumped it all
on me to sell for him. Well, needless to say I was my own best
customer and I started with the Dilaudid and worked my way down
to codeine phosphate with the whole range in between of
course. Well, all good things must end and one day I find
myself sick and the only thing left in the bag were two bottles
of cough syrup labelled "Cophylac" I checked out the ingredients
and, amongst a whole lot of other shit I see
"Normethadone". It said to take one or two drops per dose
and it had a little plastic top with a very small hole that
would only dispense a drop at a time. I phoned a pharmacist and
played the dummy with him asking "...is that the same stuff
those damn hippies take to get high or what? 'cause I don't want
to get myself addicted to no dope, etc..." He reassured me that
although it was a similar drug and that it was
addictive that if I only used it occasionlly and under my Dr.'s
supervision I would be OK. Wellll.... I think to myself
after doing some rapid math in my head... if a drop is good for
a cough the whole bottle should be about right for me. You know,
how most, (if not all), junkies think - if one is good
then ten should be a lot better. I should add that they were
very small bottles, holding maybe 50 ml, I don't know if it was
the "Normethadone" or, more likely, some additive to prevent
accidental OD but it was like drinking a bottle of ipecac,
(which I also did once - but that's another story). Anyway, I
was so sick that I thought I was going to turn myself inside
out. I mean it completely emptied me in about 2 minutes and then
I had the dry heaves for about what seemed like 4 or 5 hours but
I'm sure was much less. Suffice it to say that it seemed like
forever to me. Now here comes the really stupid part...
the next day I'm getting very dope-sick so I rationalize that I
probably just took too much the first time, so I'll try just a
quarter of a bottle today... I'll let you guess at the results
but let's just say it was like "instant replay"... Has anyone
heard of this stuff? If not and you come across some, take it
from me, unless you're a chemist and can isolate the "good"
part, I would throw it as far and as fast as you can... really
bad experience. Oh, the other three quarters of a bottle?
I gave it to my cat to get rid of those furballs once and for
all... just kidding... I threw it down the shitter like I
should have done in the first place.
Hey sha, thanks for doing all the research but none of
those you listed ring any bells for me and it wasn't about pain
management, it was about methadone maintenance for addicts. The
study was done by allowing the participants to stop at a level
where they felt comfortable not an arbitrary number that some
bureaucrat laid down as THE amount that addicts should be given.
Gotta' go now... take it cool boys and girls,
raskolnikov | |
View other groups in this
category.
|
|
Reply
| | | From: ©Sha | Sent: 3/25/2005 11:49 PM |
This isn't the study you're looking for but it does address higher doses of methadone: PDF: How Much is Enough? Methadone circulating in the blood can be measured by a laboratory test and is expressed in nanograms per milliLiter(ng/mL). A methadone blood level of 400 ng/ml (measured just prior to dosing and called the "trough" level) has been considered necessary by many for successful stabilization in MMT. However, no clinical research had actually demonstrated the existence of such a requirement. Eap and colleagues [7] in Switzerland studied 180 patients in MMT to evaluate this and also to demonstrate the blood concentration of the active R-methadone component that works best. They looked at differences between treatment responders and nonresponders. Response was defined as the absence of illicit opioid-positive urine tests during a 2-month study period. Eap et al. did find that a methadone blood level of 400 ng/ml and, in particular, an R-methadone concentration of 250 ng/ml were the most favorable levels for adequate treatment response. However, due to individual differences in methadone metabolism, individual patients required daily methadone doses ranging anywhere from 55 mg to 921 mg to achieve those adequate blood levels In the case of nonresponders (i.e., those with continuing illicit opioid-positive urine screens), almost all patients required much greater than 100 mg/d of methadone for treatment success. Furthermore, in patients receiving medications in addition to methadone, the range of effective methadone blood-level concentrations was extremely broad. There was more than a 40-fold difference between the smallest and largest optimal levels. Of particular interest, as blood levels of the active R-methadone component in these patients approached 400 ng/ml, a 100% positive response rate was achieved. That is, these difficult patients completely stopped using illicit opioids. This research helps explain why some previously unresponsive patients may require and benefit from relatively high doses of methadone. Especially in those receiving additional medications for physical or psychiatric illness. |
|
|
First
Previous
2-16 of 16
Next
Last
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
0 recommendations 
Return to Methadone