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General : Meters.. again...lol
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 Message 1 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·  (Original Message)Sent: 8/16/2005 4:38 PM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknameanitamarieshook</NOBR>  (Original Message) Sent: 8/16/2005 2:00 AM
 
I feel that there are more important things in life to worry about then cheating some  meter. 
But some people feel different.
Why?  I guess they have nothing better to do then complain about someone else  group or life, maybe because their life is not as interesting as the one they are complaing about.
If I worried about that meter each week  then I would have to close my group down because some time we get maybe 200 post, or maybe a little more on a good day.LOL
I thought this was a interesting subject at first but this group is talking about it  and they are rehashing the subject over and over..
There are 82 post on this subject.
I call that  cheating the meter...
Because once you have answered then you should move onto another subject 
 I would think to something more interesting would come about then who has more post and how they came about geting them .
 

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Recommend  Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSarges_Mom</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 2:57 AM
LOL & you just posted again about it this is funny

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Recommend  Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nickname«°Cally°»</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 6:44 AM
meters wat meters who cares about meters not me for one..... i dont even look at em  n cant stick seeing groups with same person  posting over n over sooooooooooooooooooooo boring
 
mind its  very hard these days to think of ideas need more helpppppppppppppp
 
Cally

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Recommend  Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameMộộŋSρĩяĩť</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 7:00 AM
Lmao @ Sarges_Mom. 
So is that 82 including the post that started this thread or 83 ...lol

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Recommend  Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nickname»-----Honnybeehive---»1</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 7:05 AM
i dont care about the meter
never have
 

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Recommend  Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamecaveninit</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 8:20 AM
Groan....

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Recommend  Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSarges_Mom</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 9:06 AM
LOL This is making my Upper Cheeks HURT From laughing so hard LOL I lost count WHO CARES 

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Recommend  Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameCrazy_Old_Maid</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 10:06 AM
Well, you've made a good point.  And they've made an equally good point.
 
However, what you're speaking of in the other thread...it has become a conversation.  If we only spoke our opinions and moved on, then we wouldn't learn FROM each other, we'd only say "ME MY OPINION I DON'T NEED TO SEE HEAR YOURS" However, from conversation, we learn and interchange ideas.
 
Plus, newbies come in that have never heard of meters, only just learned about meter cheating, are dealing with items they've never discussed before.....even if the other members at MHM have been here for years or months even....the new members have not, and this is all new to them.
 
My personal belief is the meters need to take a flying hike.

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Recommend Delete    Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameGrace·</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 10:36 AM
What's interesting to me about all this, and other 'conflicting opinion' type threads... is that opposing views cannot just let the other side have their view without saying something about it!...LOL...
 
Think about it....  Someone who cares about meter readings, and ratings...cannot just enjoy caring and being concerned.. without being bashed or on some level or degree from very minor to very major...attacked by those who do not care......lol. .. and vice versa.   Has anyone else notice this phenomenon?
 
Like with topic of meters.... People who think meters are not important enough to discuss... get upset with people who do think meters are important.   And those who are seriously concerned about the meters.. well, you know...  
 
What I don't understand about human nature is why do we feel the need to constantly try to convince some one with a view or opinion opposite of our own, that they are wrong to be the way they are, and that they need to change the way they think or feel about it?  
 
If someone loves meters, and loves striving to be in the top rated groups... shouldn't they be allowed to discuss their concerns and interest without criticism or comment from those who "couldnt' care less"...?   I think they should.   They should be able to cheer and celebrate and/or voice their concerns.. without being put down about it.     
 
Yes, on some threads .. sometimes it's a simple, friendly exchange of different points of view.  But sometimes.. some people get down right beligerent and abusive and condenscending. 
 
This is not addressed to any one person in particular.... not at all...  For those who "couldn't care less" about meters... and for those who "get tired of the constant talk about meters".....  I have to wonder... why do you bother to even read the thread?... and why do you bother to make a post on that thread about being fed up with the discussion?   If you don't like the topic of a particular thread, and are tired of it... why don't you just ignore the thread altogether?   
 
For example...  I do not understand the purpose of this thread at all.   Why was it necessary to start a thread.... basically complaining about something the writer is not even interested in..... and at the same time criticising those who are interested in the topic and have things to say about it???    I'm confused....   
 
Those who have an interest in anything... should be able to discuss that interest.. without being attacked or criticised by those who are not even interested...    A general question.... If you are not interested in the topic ... why are you participating in the topic discussion thread?????  ....
 
This phenomenom of this kind of reminds me of those cocain commercials.. the guy going around in circles....  
 
"I don't like this topic, but I'm going to post on this thread, to tell them I don't like this topic, because I'm tired of seeing this topic, that I don't like, but I'm going to post on this subject, that I'm tired of reading about, that I couldn't care less about, but I'm going to state my opinion about it, even thought I don't care anything about it, doesn't interest me in the least, not important to me at all, but I'm going to post on it, here it is again, another thread on this topic I don't like, I'm not intereste in it, doesnt' affect me, gonna post and let them know that,  don't really care one way or another, but I'm going to post on it, waste of my time, got things more important to do and think about, but I'm going to post on it, this topic I don't like, don't give a hoot about, not interested....


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 Message 2 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 8/16/2005 5:17 PM
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Recommend  Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameTmarie64</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 10:50 AM
Grace, when the "discussion" turns to whines about meter cheating, no they shouldn't be allowed to discuss it.  If they REALLY want something done about meter cheating they need to get off their butts and report groups that they think are doing it, not beating those who don't care over the heads with the constant "waah, my group's not number one so someone MUST have cheated" ad nauseum.
 
Also, to imply that if a group doesn't have a meter or isn't highly rated it's not as good as other groups is bull.  I've been a member of two groups that are highly rated, top 10, in Women Central, and BOTH of them are full of backbiting, drama, whiners, and women who don't want honest opinions; as a matter of fact I had to report one of the assistant managers of one group for emailing me repeatedly after I left the group, I told her 3 times to stop emailing me and got tired of it.  So, NO meters don't mean anything but that someone is posting.  Because those 2 groups SUCKED, if you don't go along with the majority opinion every time, you get harassed, cussed, and flamed.

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Recommend  Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamecaveninit</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 11:13 AM
Grace.. VERY WELL said!
hugs
janet

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 Message 3 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 8/17/2005 12:07 PM
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Recommend  Message 12 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nickname♥Bear1963�?/FONT></NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 11:16 AM
Speaking of the meters...
How do you check your group meter?
Everyone talks about the meter cheating & such all of the time..But I have no idea about it.
 
I loved your post Grace!
 
~Bear

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Recommend  Message 13 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSarges_Mom</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 11:28 AM
Grace  & tmarie64 your very right this started with a gripe & whine thats what started my day with a big laugh and made my day great it was so funny No sense made in it LOL Im still laughing. I dont worry about things like meters if Im on top or bottom in my group .I have a son in Iraq now!!  that worries me NOT meters on MSN get real people I thought we were adults here in the real world.  The internet is some people's lives its not my whole life I have real things in this life that are serious to worry about thats why it gave me a good laugh and I needed it today.  So for the person that started this thread THANK YOU for the Humor. I did need it
Karen

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Recommend  Message 14 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameMộộŋSρĩяĩť</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 11:40 AM
Well said Grace, that was the point of my earlier post, this thread started with a moan about the number of posts regarding the meters .. which has now created ...an extra 14 posts on the subject...lol.
I don't mind discussing the meters, not at all, I do find it humerous when people say stop talking about it, let the thread die etc, when they themselves have just created a new discussion on it or bumped an older thread up ..lol.
 
Michelle xx

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Recommend  Message 15 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nickname«Earth_angeL3»</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 11:54 AM
Blimey!! if my group 'ad a meter it would 'ave to be battery operated just to keep it tickin over cos it never gets used

Reply
Recommend  Message 16 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nickname©βłţçħέŋ_Ťįğğëŗ</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 12:26 PM
Meter cheating is important because that is how groups are listed. If your group is very active, then you move up the list and therefore other msn users can find your group quicker and so you get new members more often. Thats why i think we all need to understand why a lot of people ARE worried about their meters and meter cheating. But with that said, i also feel that if your group is great and you have great members, they will refer other members to your group and you will eventually get new members. I for one, only check my meter about every 2 months and its only because im curious, not because im worried. And i have never joined a group that is above me to see if they got there by meter cheating. I could care less. But as i said before, we do need to consider why others do feel they are important. After all, they are there for a purpose. Unfortantely, unless you are the person who combs through the groups and shuts them down for meter cheating, there isnt much you can do about it other than report them if you know thats what they are doing. I think a lot of us have come to that realization and thats why we dont worry about our meters. Why worry about them if we know its not gonna make a difference. There will always be meter cheating as long as there is meters, and if msn decides to come up with another idea on how to list the groups, we will find something wrong with it as well. It will never be completely fair so we have to go with what we got and worry the least we can about the things we cant control.

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Recommend  Message 17 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknamePommieMommy</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 2:14 PM
Grace Bravo and thanks  from a Newbie MGR :o) I just wanted to say and I'll make it quick... New members  ( MGR)  know nothing about meter cheating and probably have yet to get a good game going. I found the meters by accident never saw my group on any other page. I could care less about rising to the top I just love to see my group growing... the STATS reflect my hard work and I do take pride in my hard work not the meters.
 
I don't feel comfy expressing myself on this board and on my own post concerning the meters, I  have expressed it would be my last question here... It's just not worth it, I don't have this type of hostility in my group and I certainly didn't come here to find it :o) So I'll keep my feelings and concerns for my group to myself.
 
I just wanted to say thanks Grace

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Recommend  Message 18 of 18 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameTmarie64</NOBR> Sent: 8/16/2005 2:31 PM
Thanks, sargesmom.   It does get funny. 

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 Message 4 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/14/2005 5:29 PM
In reply to a question about managers who cheat with multiple fasle memberships to boost membership etc.
 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameGrace·</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 10:52 AM
Hi Roberto....  first... I understand what you are saying.   They are cheating.  And I understand how you feel.  I don't like cheaters in life either.  
 
However...by my age, 53... you learn it's provides a much more calm life to let go of what others are doing wrong.. and just focus on your own qualities and character and strive to be the best person you yourself can be.   I remember being just like you when I was in my 20's.... my inner radar picked up on every wrong thing someone else was doing in our apartment community... and it irritated me to no end and I felt so in need of making them be "right".  
 
That was my life mantra back then... I wanted to teach everyone the "right" way to behave, or the "right" kind of resident to be, or the "right" kind of parent to be.   Thankfully that need started disappearing in my 30's... and has totally evaporated now...lol.   Now if an opportunity arises...I just share information learned from my own experiences...but without any need to change anyone.   Each person has to make their own choices about who they want to be.   We can't force anything on anyone.  And it's so peaceful not to feel the need to try.    
 
I think the hardest part about growing up is having our eyes opened up to what everyone else is doing.. and seeing all the 'wrong' that people are doing out there.   We want our world to be good and right and correct and peaceful... and when our awareness radar of life beyond ourselves starts seeing and hearing all the things that contradict what we want 'truth' to be... it can indeed send us in a tailspin.   It hurts.  It makes us angry.  And we feel our world is starting to crumble... because in reality... outside of the scope of ourselves... it's not always such a wonderful, perfect place all the time.   And that is a scary thing to discover. 
 
There is a whole lot of good... it just sometimes gets overshadowed and we have to put forth our own effort and make the choice to look for it.
 
Sometimes it is good to try to correct someone elses wrong behavior.... most especially if it is something that is bringing physical harm to someone else.   And then there are times...  that we have to learn to put everything on a scale of degree of how 'wrong' it is.. and ask ourselves is it really necessary to let ourselves be so negatively affected by it.?.. it is really that major, important, or even serious?  
 
As you grow in years Roberto ... you will start to find... many things are not worth the time or emotion to get upset about.  Mostly because everyone that is doing something wrong, or making a wrong kind of choice of behavior... is also in the process of learning about life and themselves.... and has to learn from their own mistakes. 
 
And then again... sometimes.... some people just really have no idea that what they are doing is wrong or bad... because no one ever taught them values, morals or personal responsibility for their behavior.   These kind of people are not deliberately making bad or irresponsible or selfish choices... they just really have no inner concept of what they are doing... and if they are willing to learn... they can benefit from being corrected or having their behavior chastised.    
 
Sometimes it is good to put forth the effort to correct someone and call them on what they are doing wrong.   It may indeed save their life in some ways.  And for others.. sometimes it's a total waste of time... and a waste of personal energy to even let yourself get upset about them.  
 
Perspective about when to, and when not to care and intervene ...comes with age.  
 
Till then.... I'm proud of you that you have such strong ethical values.  The world needs that and I hope you hold tightly to them... because through the years many people will strive to tell you to let go of them.  Don't do it.
 
It hurts to see someone gaining unfairly through lies and cheating.. in any area of life.   As long as you don't become one of those people.... you will always be ok.   And while the cheaters may in one form or another rob you of something.... as long as you don't let them steal your good character and moral heart and values... they can't hurt the 'you' that really matters.   If you hold on to that truth .... the things they gain... like false labels of being an award winning group without honestly earning that award... won't hurt you.  Because you will learn in time these kind of people only hurt themselves.. and you will also learn... they aren't fooling anyone... and you will see in time that the people that matter, the people of value... aren't going to associate with them anyway.  
 
With your strong sense of values I have a feeling you will be fine and that you will have a good life.   Strive to not let the meter cheaters rob you of your own joy in groups.  They aren't worth it.   Hugs, Grace
 
 

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 Message 5 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/14/2005 5:30 PM
My reply to a question How Many Groups Cheat?
 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameGrace·</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 11:26 AM
Actually from what I've seen after strolling around various msn group categories is that the joke is on the groups that are at the top of any list of categories of groups.... because many groups are listed under categories that don't truthfully fit who they are. 
 
Take any one of the #1 groups in any category list.   For example.. lets use Womens Central.   I know that the top group in that msn category is not the only top womens group... because some women have their womens only group listed under lots of other msn categories... for a variety of reasons.   
 
So to me... when I see a group listed as being "#1"... it does not really mean anything.... because the toughest competition is most likely claiming the exact same thing and is also enjoying being #1... somewhere's else, under a different MSN category.  
 
Your group may be #1 on a particular category list of groups... but it doesn't truthfully mean you are the absolute #1 gruop in your category.
 
So all the games being played to boost up the posting numbers.... is for naught.   And in truth.... while the games are fun.... when you get to understand your interest in the game itself really means you are maybe, possibly, simply being used to keep the posting ratings up.... you have the free choice... to play and get that siggy.... which in one game I am 15 posts away from winning one...lol.... or to not play. 
 
Members aren't forced to play games. 
 
Game players at heart... simply love to play games.  They are quick, easy on the brain, many times mindless... and just light hearted fun....and a creative, entertaining way to get yourself a siggy.  
 
Everyone loves to 'win' at something in life.   Everyone enjoys being "#1"... wether in a game, or in a group listing.   Sometimes... off the computer... people may never ever win at anything or get to cheer about being first in anything.   Why can't people in groups just be allowed to have some innocent fun in life... without hastles about it?  
 
The world's economy and whole structure is built on competition... yet in MSN Groups... people want to deny members the one, clean, fun, non-injuring method of being competitive... non-sensical games....and they want to take away their chance to win something a simple as a posting "race" when in reality some of the players may not be able to "run" any other way because they may be stuck at home bed bound or in a wheel chair.  
 
How many groups cheat...?... I'd venture to say, in one way or another....and sometimes unknowingly,... probably every single one. 
 
The thing is... it's all usually just silly stuff that has no real value on the larger scale of life.  And certainly nothing important enough to make a big to-do about.   There is less and less easy, nice, fun in life.   It's sad that it's being denied on group boards more and more.   
 

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 Message 6 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/15/2005 3:10 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameDebMomX3</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 1:12 PM
 Cheers to you Grace! Couldn't have said that better myself!

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 Message 7 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/15/2005 3:11 AM
Reply
Recommend  Message 54 of 59 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameSolitaryJade</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 5:06 PM
I just want to say BRAVO! to you Roberto and AZsDad and BRAVA! to Grace.

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 Message 8 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/15/2005 3:12 AM
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Recommend  Message 57 of 59 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameRach_ellies_mammy1</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 6:50 PM
I couldnt have put it better myslef Grace!!

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 Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/15/2005 3:12 AM
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Recommend  Message 58 of 59 in Discussion 
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamecaveninit</NOBR> Sent: 9/14/2005 8:21 PM
OMG Grace! What a GREAT post!
hugs
Janet

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 Message 10 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGrace·Sent: 9/20/2005 4:09 AM
What is Meter Cheating?
(You may copy and share as long as you leave my credit atttached)
"Written by Jean F. of GIC"
Meter cheating is increasing a groups activity to move the groups position up in the listings. It is considered meter cheating when the sole purpose, or stated purpose, is to make the group look more active then it is so it will list higher. Meter cheating is identified by the intent of the threads or post. As long as there is a possible legitimate reason for the threads, they cannot be considered meter cheating.
 
Examples of cheating meters are listed below:
 
1. Groups that upload 100's or more of duplicate graphics, pictures, or icons, that serve no purpose but to increase ratings.
 
2. Threads with 100's of post consisting only of emoticons, etc, and have no apparent purpose but to increase ratings.
 
3. Threads which contain messages to promt members to reply to increase ratings (i.e. a thread with a starting message that says (Bump this thread often so we can be #1)
 
MSN does not broswse groups looking for these violations, but they do respond to complaints.
 
MYTHS
 
Myth: It violates the CoC to bump a thread by using only the word "bump". Meter cheating is not determined by what is included or not included in a post. It is determined by the intent of the post it. If the post doesn't say something like,  "bump this thread so we can be #1" then it is assumed there is a legitimate purpose for the bump.
 
Myth: Excessive bumping violates the CoC. There is no such thing. A thread can be bumped as often as the group feels it is necessary. There are many reasons for bumping a thread. Some groups allow members to bump threads that are for a specific member so that when they come into the group, they will be able to find it. Or managers may bump threads that are important and need to be read by every member. This is considered bumping for a legitimate reason. If a manager or member post 100's of messages with no other possible intent than to boost activity, then it becomes cheating.
 
Myth: Posting just a graphic without words violates the CoC. There is no such rule. It is only considered cheating if the specific intent is to increase ratings.
 
Myth: Uploding 100's of graphics in the same weeks is cheating the meters. It is only cheating if the intent is to cheat. For example. if a manager or member are uploading the same graphics each time the intent could be to increase ratings. But as long as there is a possible explanation for the graphics, it cannot be assumed as cheating. Just because others don't see a use for the graphics doesn't mean there isn't one. Many managers store graphics in one group that they may only use in another group.
 
Myth: Playing games that only require members to include graphics or one word in their reply. Games of any kind are not considered meter cheating unless the intent of the game is to increase activity in addition to, move your group up in the listings. As long as members are participating and enjoying the games, it should be assumed that they are not being used soley as a way of increasing a groups rating. Groups that do allow such games, usually allow them because their members enjoy them. Even so, most of these games grow old and become less intresting to your members over a short period of time and will eventually die out anyway.
 
Myth: Coaching your members to post by offering them siggys/tags in return. Offering your members siggys/tags for posting cannot always be considered cheating. If we didnt limit who, why, or when we offered siggys or tags by offering them to members who participate in certain activies, we would be expected to make them for all members all the time. There are other ways to offer siggys/tags, such as having a request board, but a lot of members enjoy getting involved in group activies which offer rewards. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you do not state that "they will not get any siggys/tags unless they post a certain amount of times in a certain time frame". If you offer them in your group, they should be offered to all members in one form or another. Also, it cannot be proven that groups that offer siggys/tags as a reward for posting, have a higher rating than groups who do not. Therefore, it can only be assumed that these offerings are simply to encourage members to take part in the group and enjoy themselves, not to increase activity.

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