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General : Obama says he will scrap "Star Wars" Think this would change his mind?
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 Message 1 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2  (Original Message)Sent: 12/18/2008 2:01 PM

What a Single Nuclear Warhead Could Do

Why the U.S. needs a space-based missile defense against an EMP attack.

As severe as the global financial crisis now is, it does not pose an existential threat to the U.S. Through fits and starts we will sort out the best way to revive the country's economic engine. Mistakes can be tolerated, however painful. The same may not be true with matters of national security.

Although President George W. Bush has accomplished more in the way of missile defense than his predecessors -- including Ronald Reagan -- he will leave office with only a rudimentary system designed to stop a handful of North Korean missiles launched at our West Coast. Barack Obama will become commander in chief of a country essentially undefended against Russian, Chinese, Iranian or ship-launched terrorist missiles. This is not acceptable.

The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, have proven how vulnerable we are. On that day, Islamic terrorists flew planes into our buildings. It is not unreasonable to believe that if they obtain nuclear weapons, they might use them to destroy us. And yet too many policy makers have rejected three basic facts about our position in the world today....

.........Let us say the freighter ship launches a nuclear-armed Shahab-3 missile off the coast of the U.S. and the missile explodes 300 miles over Chicago. The nuclear detonation in space creates an electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

Gamma rays from the explosion, through the Compton Effect, generate three classes of disruptive electromagnetic pulses, which permanently destroy consumer electronics, the electronics in some automobiles and, most importantly, the hundreds of large transformers that distribute power throughout the U.S. All of our lights, refrigerators, water-pumping stations, TVs and radios stop running. We have no communication and no ability to provide food and water to 300 million Americans.

This is what is referred to as an EMP attack, and such an attack would effectively throw America back technologically into the early 19th century. It would require the Iranians to be able to produce a warhead as sophisticated as we expect the Russians or the Chinese to possess. But that is certainly attainable. Common sense would suggest that, absent food and water, the number of people who could die of deprivation and as a result of social breakdown might run well into the millions.

LINK

*****************************

Just a little something to think about for when Iran gets their nukes.

 



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Reply
 Message 6 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/18/2008 7:40 PM
We already have all sorts of missile defense.

Just like we had all sorts of ways to shoot down the airliners on 911.

I think Obama may be onto something.

Reply
 Message 7 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOpar5Sent: 12/18/2008 7:50 PM
Buick,
 
I suggest you check your facts.    There was no policy in effect to shoot down those planes at the time, had no way of knowing what they were coing to do, and had set the stage with the FAA's "no resistance" policy toward hijackers.    The Muslims wouldn't have tried it without that FAA policy.     Another government FU, with a government answer of "Air Marshals," some of our best cops, bored out of their minds and reduced to dealing with airborne drunks.     Government has effectively destroyed our free market, now can we reasonably expect them to bring it back in any manner OTHER than getting out of the way?       I think not.    

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 Message 8 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2Sent: 12/18/2008 8:46 PM
Eppie and the rest of you naysayers, read the article. It distinctly says there would be no way to prove who did it thus no retaliation. It only takes on nuclear missle detonated in the atmosphere to cripple us. Maybe you would like to go back in time but I wouldn't. It's hard enough getting by in this world without more liberal grasshoppers knocking on my door.

Reply
 Message 9 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCheerfulEppieblossomSent: 12/18/2008 10:30 PM
DDuct??  No way to prove that a nuclear armed missle came from Iran????  You'd best get a grip!! 

Reply
 Message 10 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCheerfulEppieblossomSent: 12/18/2008 10:45 PM
DDuct.  Do you honestly believe that if Israel were hit by a nuke, ALL the usual suspects wouldn't face retaliation???  Trust me, the secret services of Syria, Iran lebanon, Egypt and EVERY OTHER ARAB STATE work closesly with the Mossad to prevent a nuke from blowing up in Israel.  THEIR SURVIVAL DEPENDS ON IT!!  I DO WISH SOME OF YOU WOULD GROW UP AND LOOK AT THE SITUATION AS IT REALLY IS AND NOT DEPEND ON YOUR CHILDISH NIGHTMARES TO FORM YOUR JUDGEMENTS.

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 Message 11 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/18/2008 10:58 PM
Policy shmolicy.

We have 1001 ways to shoot down airplanes.

We didn;t get japped on 911 because we're no good at shooting down airplanes.

Reply
 Message 12 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2Sent: 12/18/2008 11:42 PM
Eppie, did you even read the story? Since it is obvious you didn't, I'll post what it said here for you........
 

Consider Iran. For the past decade, Iran -- with the assistance of Russia, China and North Korea -- has been developing missile technology. Iranian Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani announced in 2004 their ability to mass produce the Shahab-3 missile capable of carrying a lethal payload to Israel or -- if launched from a ship -- to an American city.

Think about this scenario: An ordinary-looking freighter ship heading toward New York or Los Angeles launches a missile from its hull or from a canister lowered into the sea. It hits a densely populated area. A million people are incinerated. The ship is then sunk. No one claims responsibility. There is no firm evidence as to who sponsored the attack, and thus no one against whom to launch a counterstrike.

But as terrible as that scenario sounds, there is one that is worse. Let us say the freighter ship launches a nuclear-armed Shahab-3 missile off the coast of the U.S. and the missile explodes 300 miles over Chicago. The nuclear detonation in space creates an electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

Get the mesasage?

 


Reply
 Message 13 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2Sent: 12/18/2008 11:45 PM
I believe one time you said you were a retired teacher? If so, I'm sad for those you taught.

Reply
 Message 14 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaptainKBTSent: 12/19/2008 12:00 AM
We already have all sorts of missile defense.

Just like we had all sorts of ways to shoot down the airliners on 911.

Shooting down commercial aircraft and shooting down missiles are two entirely different things.
 
We have 1001 ways to shoot down airplanes.

We didn;t get japped on 911 because we're no good at shooting down airplanes.
 
Huh...?!!!! Are you nuts? The US military and their technology are excellent at shooting down "airplanes"...actually the best in the world.

Reply
 Message 15 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameopaleuxSent: 12/19/2008 2:00 AM
do you honestly think if Iran could take out Israel, they care that the Palestinians who would be obliterated as well?...they only care about the Palestinians when they are committing carnage on their arch-enemy, Israel.

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 Message 16 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCheerfulEppieblossomSent: 12/19/2008 4:19 AM
DDuct.  Don't feel sad for those I taught.  I taught them how to recognize and deal with hopeless fools like you.  Now, with what can only be an enormous gathering of will, try to understand that Iran or any other country which attacks the United States or israel with a nuke will be completely destroyed.  And if you think there are no technological ways to identify the source of a nuke OR an EMP devise, it is only because you are an ignorant, ill informed fool.

Reply
 Message 17 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaptainKBTSent: 12/19/2008 2:01 PM
Talking about "hopeless fools"....your so transparent....
 
What you fail to understand Eppie is that Iran or any other terrorist COUNTRY is not going to attack anyone directly. Their plan is to proliferate the weapon to some terrorist organization and then they will use it. Then Iran will deny deny deny, and leftards such as yourself will believe them, appease them, and make excuses for them and then condem the USA/Israel for its accusals and "war mongering" while hundreds of thousands of Americans/Israelis lay dead. In short, if the USA/Israel finds evidence that the nuke device is Iranian made, idiots like you will stick up for your buddies in Iran and say the evidence was fabricated.

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 Message 18 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2Sent: 12/19/2008 2:02 PM
Eppie you still don't get the situation. An EMP attack in one area disrupts communications for the entire country and the entire US economy. The problem is that you put our mindset into the mind of an Iranian leader. Do you not know that they do not care if their country is destroyed? Do you not understand that to destroy part of our country and throw the rest into chaos will get them a place in heaven and that is their ultimate goal? They have no fear of what will happen to the rest of their country so long as they achieve the favor of Allah and are deemed as martyrs in the rest of the muslim world. They do not recognize the fact of Mutual Assured Destruction as the more "civilized" among us such as China and Russia, they only need their one chance to please Allah.
 
By the way, the only thing that can possibly be determined from a nuclear blast is the place of origin for the nuclear material not the bomb itself since it is completely destroyed. So say the material came from stolen Russian material yet the bomb is set off by Iran. Who gets the blame? Do you nuke Russia? And while we're at it, suppose that bomb/missle kills yourself and the ones you love, will you really care if the culprit is destroyed since you won't be around to see it and what about the rest of the people who will suffer initially and forever after?
 
One question, isn't it better to have a deterrent so that the attack is not possible in the first place than to have one innocent die?
 
Before you start calling people fools take a good long look in the mirror.

Reply
 Message 19 of 20 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/19/2008 2:06 PM
The point is that you don;t have to strap a nuke to a missile to use it.

You can put it in the belly of a cargo ship and sail it into New York harbor.




Reply
 Message 20 of 20 in Discussion 
From: DDuct2Sent: 12/19/2008 2:16 PM
It would not achieve the desired effect if detonated aboard a ship and would cause minmum disruption. To get the full effect, the higher it is detonated, the better.
 
A blast at 300 miles above the central US would effectively cripple communications over the entire country.
 
 
While a blast in NY harbor would cause massive area of destruction and chaos we could carry on as we did after 9/11. An EMP at alttitude would have far more reaching effect on the entire country.

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