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General : Bush okays an orderly $13.4 billion -
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 Message 1 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGS  (Original Message)Sent: 12/19/2008 2:39 PM
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Aj_GmLrnv3UMMb6kf1dCF9S7YWsA/SIG=11nr8p6fa/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/ap/081219/meltdown_autos.html

Well here we go again.


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Reply
 Message 16 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname™Curm�?/nobr>Sent: 12/21/2008 12:03 AM
CKBT,
 
Are we really going to come out of a recession by having to pay MORE in taxes?
 
Yup, Obama is going to prove that you can TAX your way out of a Recession.  Like Churchill said, Obama will place us all in the bucket and tell us to raise ourselves up by the handle.
 
 
He will tax us out of a Recession, and TAX us into a Panic Depression.  Rebember unemployment only reached about 12% during the last Depression.  I believe Obama will improve on that by driving unemployment over 20%.  I closed down all US operations in September, and laid everyone off except my foreign operations.
 
Curm

Reply
 Message 17 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname™Curm�?/nobr>Sent: 12/21/2008 12:07 AM
Dude,
 
destroy our auto manufacture base
 
Not to worry!  The US Toyota, Honda, BMW, KIA, Mercedes operations are thriving and earning fair profits by putting ALL the cost value INTO the vehicles.  GM, Ford, and Crystler just give a big chunk of the buyer's money to the unions by shorting quality.
 
Curm

Reply
 Message 18 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAdude_0Sent: 12/21/2008 12:50 AM
     Labor costs are 10% of the cost of making a car, and big three cars on average cost about $2,000 less than Toyotas or Hondas.

Reply
 Message 19 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname™Curm�?/nobr>Sent: 12/21/2008 1:06 AM
Dude,
 
Do you have a link for the assertions you made in post 18?  I don't believe the 10% number.
 
Curm

Reply
 Message 20 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/21/2008 1:15 AM
But you don't know for sure.
 
 

Reply
 Message 21 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAdude_0Sent: 12/21/2008 3:10 AM

UAW leaders are quick to point out that labor is less than 10% of the total cost of an automobile today, and that the Detroit Three have plenty of other cost issues beyond the scope of the UAW contract.

 

                http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070722/COL06/707220658/1002/BUSINESS&theme=AUTOTALKS072007


Reply
 Message 22 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameopaleuxSent: 12/21/2008 3:49 AM
i think the internet is hurting dealerships, although it's not mentioned much.  But many people do go to E-bay to buy vehicles online.   And what they buy, are used luxury cars and pay a price similar to what they would for a brand new non-luxury vehicle.  

Reply
 Message 23 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname™Curm�?/nobr>Sent: 12/21/2008 4:22 AM
Whatever their problems, the big three will be gone by this time next year, regardless of bailouts, because nobody will buy their vehicles now.
 
Curm

Reply
 Message 24 of 30 in Discussion 
From: Stanley LevinSent: 12/21/2008 5:04 AM
Who wants to buy a vehicle not knowing if the warranty on that vehicle will be good a few months after the purchase?

One would have to be stone crazy to purchase a vehicle under such trying circumstances.

Reply
 Message 25 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameslslady10Sent: 12/21/2008 5:07 AM
Bankruptcy is the only sane alternative. Restructuring would be overseen by the courts, and people would still have jobs. The UAW is the catalyst for the failure of the American auto industry.

Reply
 Message 26 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname™Curm�?/nobr>Sent: 12/21/2008 1:48 PM
SL2,
 
The UAW is the catalyst for the failure of the American auto industry.
 
The UAW probably also deserves some credit for a portion of the success of all the foreign vehicle manufacturers.
 
Curm

Reply
 Message 27 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/21/2008 3:07 PM
LOL
 
Toyota and Honda operate profitable North American operations using UAW labor.
 
So do Ford, GM and Chrysler.
 
There are lots of Big Three operations that mkae money/

Reply
 Message 28 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/21/2008 7:00 PM
Here is a look at how the bank failures have affected executive compensation.
 
I know it is beyond the rightie intellectual capacity to find fault with anyojne but the common working man, but you will find the Big Three probably award each other greater compensation than the banks...in case yo were wondering where those tax dollars were going.
 

AP study finds $1.6 billion went to bailed-out bank executives

Sun Dec 21, 12:20 PM

By Frank Bass And Rita Beamish, The Associated Press

Banks that are getting taxpayer bailouts awarded their top executives nearly $1.6 billion in salaries, bonuses, and other benefits last year, an Associated Press analysis reveals.

The rewards came even at banks where poor results last year foretold the economic crisis that sent them to Washington for a government rescue. Some trimmed their executive compensation due to lagging bank performance, but still forked over multimillion-dollar executive pay packages.

Benefits included cash bonuses, stock options, personal use of company jets and chauffeurs, home security, country club memberships and professional money management, the review of federal securities documents found.

The total amount given to nearly 600 executives would cover bailout costs for many of the 116 banks that have so far accepted tax dollars to boost their bottom lines.

Representative Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services committee and a long-standing critic of executive largesse, said the bonuses tallied by the review amount to a bribe "to get them to do the jobs for which they are well paid in the first place.

"Most of us sign on to do jobs and we do them best we can," said Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat. "We're told that some of the most highly paid people in executive positions are different. They need extra money to be motivated!"

The AP compiled total compensation based on annual reports that the banks file with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The 116 banks have so far received $188 billion in taxpayer help. Among the findings:

-The average paid to each of the banks' top executives was $2.6 million in salary, bonuses and benefits.

-Lloyd Blankfein, president and chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs, took home nearly $54 million in compensation last year. The company's top five executives received a total of $242 million.

This year, Goldman will forgo cash and stock bonuses for its seven top-paid executives. They will work for their base salaries of $600,000, the company said. Facing increasing concern by its own shareholders on executive payments, the company described its pay plan last spring as essential to retain and motivate executives "whose efforts and judgments are vital to our continued success, by setting their compensation at appropriate and competitive levels." Goldman spokesman Ed Canaday declined to comment beyond that written report.

The New York-based company last week reported its first quarterly loss since it went public in 1999. It received $10 billion in taxpayer money Oct. 28.

-Even where banks cut back on pay, some executives were left with seven-or eight-figure compensation that most people can only dream about. Richard Fairbank, the chairman of Capital One Financial Corp., took a $1 million hit in compensation after his company had a disappointing year, but still got $17 million in stock options. The McLean, Va.-based company received $3.56 billion in bailout money Nov. 14.

-John Thain, chief executive officer of Merrill Lynch, topped all corporate bank bosses with $83 million in earnings last year. Thain, a former chief operating officer for Goldman Sachs, took the reins of the company in December 2007, avoiding the blame for a year in which Merrill lost $7.8 billion. Since he began work late in the year, he earned $57,692 in salary, a $15 million signing bonus and an additional $68 million in stock options.

Like Goldman, Merrill got $10 billion from taxpayers Oct. 28.

The AP review comes amid sharp questions about the banks' commitment to the goals of the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, a law designed to buy bad mortgages and other troubled assets. Last month, the Bush administration changed the program's goals, instructing the Treasury Department to pump tax dollars directly into banks in a bid to prevent wholesale economic collapse.

The program set restrictions on some executive compensation for participating banks, but did not limit salaries and bonuses unless they had the effect of encouraging excessive risk to the institution. Banks were barred from giving golden parachutes to departing executives and deducting some executive pay for tax purposes.

Banks that got bailout funds also paid out millions for home security systems, private chauffeured cars, and club dues. Some banks even paid for financial advisers. Wells Fargo of San Francisco, which took $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money, gave its top executives up to $20,000 each to pay personal financial planners.

At Bank of New York Mellon Corp., chief executive Robert Kelly's stipend for financial planning services came to $66,748, on top of his $975,000 salary and $7.5 million bonus. His car and driver cost $178,879. Kelly also received $846,000 in relocation expenses, including help selling his home in Pittsburgh and purchasing one in Manhattan, the company said.

Goldman Sachs' tab for leased cars and drivers ran as high as $233,000 per executive. The firm told its shareholders this year that financial counselling and chauffeurs are important in giving executives more time to focus on their jobs.

JPMorgan Chase chairman James Dimon ran up a $211,182 private jet travel tab last year when his family lived in Chicago and he was commuting to New York. The company got $25 billion in bailout funds.

Banks cite security to justify personal use of company aircraft for some executives. But Representative Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) questioned that rationale, saying executives visit many locations more vulnerable than the country's security-conscious commercial air terminals.

Sherman, a member of the House Financial Services Committee, said pay excesses undermine development of good bank economic policies and promote an escalating pay spiral among competing financial institutions - something particularly hard to take when banks then ask for rescue money.

He wants them to come before Congress, like the automakers did, and spell out their spending plans for bailout funds.

"The tougher we are on the executives that come to Washington, the fewer will come for a bailout," he said.

Recent Business Stories

More Finance News

Reply
 Message 29 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameopaleuxSent: 12/22/2008 7:00 PM
so..what happened with the politicians' making this huge claim that there would be no "golden parachutes" to the CEOs?...

Reply
 Message 30 of 30 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname69BuickGSSent: 12/22/2008 7:48 PM
Are you kidding?
 
They can argue the meaning of the word "the".
 
These are all lawyers, afterall.

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