I recently had a chat with a good friend of mine. Like most serious discussion it was done at tim hortons. anyway, we started talking about religion, she said that she didnt believe in God, i asked why, she said because of all the pain that is in the world. I sat back for a minute, then i asked her "So God to you, would be a painless being?" she said yes, i said "but dont we learn our greatest lessons through pain? if it wasnt for the pain of war we would never fight for peace, if it wasnt for the suffering in jail everyone would be a criminal." she couldnt really come up with a reply. so i thought about it a bit more. if god is love and mercy and forgivenesss, is he not also hate and tourment and vengence?