MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
Red Path Witches Resources[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  WELCOME  
  To Walk the Red Road  
  Support Our Troops  
  Little Indian  
  *RPWR Rules-PLEASE READ!!*  
    
    
  Links  
  PowWows (mbs)  
  General  
  RedPath Prayers  
  Ceremonies  
  RedPath Beliefs  
  RedPath Legends  
  Histories  
  Red Path Deities  
  Animal Medicine  
  Native Crafts  
  Two Spirit  
  Drumming  
  End of the Trail  
  The Heart Speaks  
  word meanings  
  Our People  
  Our Nations  
  medicine  
  Herbs  
  Mother Earth  
  Our Spirituality  
  Being Indian  
  Listening to Native Americans  
  I can't remember their Names  
  The Wounded Knee Massacre  
  Trail of Tears  
  Obligations of the True Path Walkers  
  Warriorwoman  
  The 7 Grandfather Teachings  
  The Ten Commandments of Mother Earth  
  ~Ancient One~  
  The Mirrors of My Eyes  
  Medicine Path  
  Sacred Path  
  Pictures  
  W.O. Harvey C. Addison - Tribute to my big brother  
  Gemstones & the 5 Elements  
  
  
  Tools  
 
Two Spirit : Trying two explain two-spirit
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWitchway_Pawnee  (Original Message)Sent: 1/21/2004 6:38 AM
 

In my culture we have people who dress half-man, half-woman. Winkte, we call them in our language, but gay people are dressing up as women in our dances, and that's not the way. ...If you are Winkte, that is an honorable term, and you are a special human being. And among my nation and all Plains people, we consider you a teacher of our children, and are proud of what and who you are. If you're going to sing my songs, and do my dances, then ask us. Quit butchering my songs, my dances, and the things that I am proud to wear. It means nothing now.

~Russell Means~

 


Trying to Understand

A strong exploration of the conceptual difficulties Westerners face in understanding sacred Native gender traditions


The Basics

  • Many Native American Tribes have three, five, or even seven genders.
  • These duel-sexed people, or "two-spirited" are seen without stigma and considered emmisaries from the Creator. They are treated with deference and respect, even considered sacred.
  • They are sacred for many reasons, not the least of which being that they embody both Mother Earth and Father Sky. They may be found as a vital part of almost any ceremony involving the entire band. They "hold both a masculine and feminine heart within their souls, and therefore twice the power."
  • As androgyne beings, it is thought that they are better able to be fair -- seeing into the hearts of both males and females. They are often called on to play the role of mediator.
  • In regards to duty, relationship and dress, physical sex is not important. The "spirit" is the determinate.
  • "Two-spirit" is the closest thing to an appropriate umbrella term for referring to these gender traditions among Native peoples. However, even "two-spirit" is contested in modern usage.

Cultural Misunderstandings

  • The Western/European worldview is fundamentally different from Native perception. The Western/European worldview is dominated by dualistic/binary thinking (e.g. male-female). Native perception is not. Native perception typically insists that all things are connected, whereas Western approaches focus on independence. We (westerners) are being racist when we try to cram Native experience into Western categories.
  • There is no universal singular Native tradition. There is a great deal of diversity among Native nations in respect to gender diversity. Overgeneralizations about "the" tradition is another way we (westerners) display our shallow approach to Native experience.Not all tribes had a "berdache" tradition. The Iroquois and some other nations had a strong warrior expectation with no room for sissies.
  • "Berdache" remains a term used by many anthropologists, but is considered (by many Native Americans) to be a European, racist slur, indicative of a long history of Native oppression at the hands of European colonists (who never took the time or interest to understand Native culture on its own terms).
  • Each Native nation (i.e. each with its own language) would have a specific term (and practice) which referred to those we (westerners) might call "other-gendered."

I-coo-coo-a (Sauk and Fox); Agokwa (Ojibwa); Hee-man-eh (Cheyenne); Ougokweniini (Anishnawbe); Winkte (Sioux and Lakota); Ihamana (Zuni); Nadleeh (Navajo); Tanowaip (Shoshoni); Kwidó (Tewa); Manly Hearts (The North Piegan)

 

Sexual/Gender Misunderstandings

  • Western cultural and moral terms do not apply. Equating Western categories with these Native practices and understandings tends to result in racist and homophobic expressions -- simplifications which allow us to avoid really listening to the alternative assumptions found in Native cultures.
  • To the Western mind, "two-spirited" persons would be "other-gendered" -- i.e. neither male nor female. However, the worldviews are so different that there is really no comparable category that applies directly.
  • Because such Native persons are not considered male or female, they cannot be rightly categorized as "homosexuals." Such labels were applied inappropriately by European colonists.
  • Such Native persons are not "transexuals." They are not trapped in the "wrong" body. From a Native perspective, they represent a natural and accepted gender identity within the created order.
  • Such Native persons are not "crossdressers" or "transvestites" -- their dress was culturally appropriate for their given gender identity and not considered transgressive within Native culture.
  • "Transgendered" is the closest western concept that would apply. However, "transgender" implies some crossing over of the gender dualism -- a dualism which does not exist in the Native worldview. "Other-gendered" has the same problem, in that it assumes "male" and "female" as normative. In addition, "transgendered" fails to communicate the sacred role affiliated with such individuals in Native cultures.

Western Misappropriation of "two-spirit"

  • Because Western culture can be so oppressive, it is easy to rush towards other cultural traditions which appear more enlightened. But we are still responsible for our actions. We who know what it is like to be misunderstood, labeled and re-presented by others in regards to gender identity, should appreciate the similar experience of Native people in regards to cultural experience.
  • Because these sacred traditions are integral to very specific cultural traditions, it is wrong to appropriate Native terms for general use in Western settings. It is important to respect the fact that Native and Western cultural presuppositions differ so drastically that we need an altogether different term for those of us who would claim a similar sacred role (as othergendered -- i.e. not male, not female, with sacred significance) within Western culture(s).
  • I offer "OtherWise" as a functional Western alternative, which does not misappropriate sacred Native traditions.
  • Native Americans are burdened with sustaining their culture(s) in the face of Western Imperialism. It is our burden as Westerners to transform our own culture -- beginning with ourselves.

Making Amends

  • Native Americans owe us NOTHING. Our culture's spiritual poverty is our own responsibility to explore and address creatively.
  • Our first task is to be silent. We must learn how to listen. Even (especially) to the rage. Without imposing our own definitions. Without rushing to conclusions or defense.
  • By listening deeply and not rushing to apply our own categorical explanations, we begin the second task -- which is to taking responsibility for the damage done by our own ancestors as well as by us. We must own our own histories.
  • In claiming our past, we open ourselves to the future. Our third task is to be about the work of transforming our own culture from its very roots.
  • And when we have done our own work in earnest, let us begin it again.


First  Previous  2-3 of 3  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCronesCorner34Sent: 8/22/2004 9:06 PM
Once again, I am asking your permission to print out (for my use only) the five articles you have on people who are two-spirit.
 
When I first read them a few months ago, I meant to ask, but of course it slipped my mind.
 
I have never, ever, had the priviledge to read such a sensitive and  enlightened review/history.  As I have a daughter who is "two-spiritied" it did indeed touch my heart. 
 
I simply cannot understand how some people can be so cruel to our "two-spirited"Brothers and Sisters - especially since so many of them have done nothing to enlighten their knowledge about those considered "other"or "different"  in our world.
 
I thank "The One who is above all" for "lending" me this beautiful daughter my time on Earth.  And also for her great partner too.
 
CronesCorner34

Reply
 Message 3 of 3 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWitchway_PawneeSent: 8/22/2004 9:32 PM
You are most welcome to take anything from this community that you need to use.
I too think it is important to understand one who is two-spirited, as the white culture seems to think it only means being gay.  Two-spirit people can be gay or hetro.  It is more in the spirit than sex.
Please feel free to use anything in this group.
Blessings to you,
Witchway