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| | From: Connor (Original Message) | Sent: 5/22/2002 9:18 PM |
The Old Men Admiring Themselves in the Water I heard the old, old men say, 'Everything alters, And one by one we drop away.' They had hands like claws, and their knees Were twisted like the old thorn-trees By the waters. I heard the old, old men say, 'All that's beautiful drifts away Like the waters.'
W.B.Yeats.
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/22/2002 11:28 PM |
thanks for posting this connor - a good one to read aloud. when speaking of the Imagistes, like Pound & H.D. - you cannot forget the man who had a profound influence on them. Yeats combined all the elements of an image into the final symbol, the 'Vision' called a poem. i think it is important when examining a piece which may be less familiar to readers, to put it in the time frame it was written. Yeats liked his poems to be read in sequence. this piece was written during his middle years, at the time he became involved with the theatre and began writing plays (he couldn't find any with poetic language worth a damn, in his opinion), and writing plays took him to another phase of the Mask. also, it is important to note: Maud Gonne married at this time. however, at her request he did help with the separation - so it was not complete tragedy for him. it is also important to place this poem in the proper grouping. it is from: In the Seven Woods. that title referred to Lady Gregory's estate. she was part of the theatre society he helped to organize. the trimming and paring down of this poem influenced all his later work, and in addition Yeats returned to earlier works and revised them. the most important lines in this piece, to me are: They had hands like claws, and their knees Were twisted like the old thorn-trees
not only fabulous description, but takes us to one of only six images he obsessively used: the Tree. also - in those last lines, the critical image: the Mask (beauty? youth? not fixed - can be many things - All) --- drifts away. susan |
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/23/2002 12:04 AM |
i should have said, the trimming and paring down of these poems (of this group), In the Seven Woods, influenced all his later work, etc. |
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| | From: Connor | Sent: 5/23/2002 10:23 PM |
I think a great poem, as this one is, stands apart from the poet who wrote it, on its own 'feet', so to speak, as a thing of independent life. It is a challenge to be able to receive in reverence its gentle life force. I think appending notes to it, interesting as that may be, can take away from the essential life of the poem. I am more interested in the product than the minutae of the poets life. Much I have against poetry is that it is based on ego worship rather than preception of the essence of what the art is. The more I read of Poetry Review and the like with its fawning over poets personalities and other minutae, rather than poetry, the less I want to be involved. It is good to set Yeats' work in context perhaps. But that is secondary to inwardly receiving a poem such as this, which, as he himself would have said, was received from a divine being, the inspirations of whom, he prepared himself. Interesting, that Yeats, as a practicing ceremonial magician held poetry as his highest aim. The highest ritual perhaps.
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/24/2002 6:45 AM |
it is late - for me - and i really would like to argue with you connor because you posted this on Metacriticism and therefore i am not going to stand back and just "receive in reverence its gentle life force." pah! analyzing a poem does not take away from it in the least. it adds. i am not "fawning" over a poet's personality or anything else. if you are likening my comments to something in Poetry Review - or any review. 'the divine being' ? he said a lot of things connor. but the mystical mostly came later in his life. how would you then account for the body of his work. he also spoke about his images, and most particularly the Mask. among other things. pah! receive a poem. receive it, but then use the nomenclature to tell me why it is a great poem. or he a great poet. this is a Metacriticism Board, not the Playground. susan |
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| | From: Connor | Sent: 5/24/2002 9:50 AM |
More relevant to a discussion of this poem, in my view, is its form, and how the elements of the imagination are incorporated, and the rhyme scheme and assonance etc. Which is more important for a aspirant poet. Yes, the other information is interesting, but I wouldn't call it analysing the poem. If youre interested Yeats joined the Theosophists and the Rosicrucians in the 1890s, which was pretty early in his career as a poet. |
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| | From: Connor | Sent: 5/24/2002 11:49 AM |
Susan, I am sorry for the tone of my original reply to your comments. I think they were a little out of order and one sided in regard to what you wrote; although I still stand by what I said about the importance of looking at the forms. You wouldn't disagree with me over this I'm sure. I didn't mean to compare your comments to my distain for Poetry Review. I should have said thanks for replying, and for your interest. Connor |
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/24/2002 5:02 PM |
it was late, and i've lately been reading Yeats - so i was a little taken aback. not talking of his early intro tho' - was thinking more of his wife, the lovely George - and his poetry thereafter. so fitting that his body was moved to Sligo, under Bulben - he would have loved the revision. more later. my tone too, in keeping with working late hours with programs - instead of poetry. susan |
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/25/2002 8:14 AM |
i think i'll read more Yeats and get back to you on this. i wanna find a poem of his i'd like to post. |
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| | From: Susan | Sent: 5/25/2002 4:53 PM |
meant to say, Ben Bulben. eek! grrrr ok. back to the salt mines for me. |
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I thought this may be of interest to lovers of poetry; written by Mohamed Rupani on June 17, 1964: |
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| | From: susie | Sent: 7/8/2002 11:30 PM |
i for one would have no idea if this is actually Yeats written in Gujarati. any takers? susan |
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Hi Susan and GujaratiPoem... I read the English version when I saw G.Poem's post on the General Board. I didn't remember Connor's post here. Yes, a wonderful poem by W B Yeats. No, can't read much, expect the peoples's name 'Gujarati' which is a Province also, in India, south west? Thanks "Meanders" |
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gujarati what ?? I only see english ........big question mark humongous(whatever) |
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| | From: sue | Sent: 12/8/2002 2:19 AM |
the Gujarati was on the General Board - not here. as far as i remember. susan |
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