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| | | From: _susan_ (Original Message) | Sent: 1/4/2007 5:35 AM |
"Taigu Ryokan (1758-1831) (nicknamed Great Fool) lives on as one of Japan's best loved poets, the wise fool who wrote of his humble life with such directness. He is in a tradition of radical Zen poets or "great fools" including China's P'ang Yun (Layman P'ang, 740-811) and Han-shan (Cold Mountain, T'ang Dynasty), and Japan's poets of the Rinzai School: Ikkyu Sojun (Crazy Cloud, 1394-1481) and Hakuin Ekaku (1686-1769). Ryokan had no disciples, ran no temple, and in the eyes of the world was a penniless monk who spent his life in the snow country of Mt. Kugami. He admired most the Soto Zen teachings of Dogen Zenji and the unconventional life and poetry of Zen mountain poet Han-shan. He repeatedly refused to be honored or confined as a "professional" either as a Buddhist priest or a poet.
Who says my poems are poems?
These poems are not poems.
When you can understand this,
then we can begin to speak of poetry.
Ryokan never published a collection of verse while alive. His practice consisted of sitting in zazen meditation, walking in the woods, playing with children, making his daily begging rounds, reading and writing poetry, doing calligraphy, and on occasion drinking wine with friends." http://www.poetseers.org/spiritual_and_devotional_poets/buddhist/ryokan/ryokanp/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ry%C5%8Dkan That is one ironic ... poem. |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 1/20/2007 12:04 AM |
a pre-1940's copy is way over the $20.00 limit, btw. but there is an inexpensive edition available. however, first: 3-in-a-row. s. |
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I will start next month... three in a row, it's on
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 1/24/2007 5:23 AM |
we didn't start a serious challenge here until 2001. before that (2000), it was kind of informal. i recently added the book bonus. well, if the beginning of last year is considered recent. one person won. if i did it previously, only one other person would have won. 2 people since 2001 - the official start of word challenge - 3x in a row. good luck! heh |
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I have been seriously considering this question.
an end-rhyme
an arrangement of words
an emotion recollected in tranquility
all of these and more have been proferred
but that lead me to an even more important question
what raises a poem from mediocrity to stellar proportions.
William Carlos Williams wrote the one about the little red wagon
such a small arrangement of words
but he set the stage for the whole beat generation.
Matthew Arnold, with his poem about sailing set the stage for serious inquiry.
Eliot showed us how to set a modern epic with his quartet and how the women come and go
speaking of michaelangelo
what sets these apart from the dross?
I reviewed a poem on this site, and the notion it contained was larger than the poem itself
I would not dare to say the notion was bigger than the poet
yet it was not treated as fully as it should have been
curious. |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 2/12/2007 5:38 AM |
What is a poem. a relatively short work that requires a relatively long atttention span. |
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I sorta agree with you there, but Gongora's idle that stretches to 247 pages has only one line that raises it above the rest around page 87. "The fawn in the forest were not real...". Hmmm.
And as fr your translator note, I agree, but to believe in the pane of glass, one might actually get there. I agree, my translations are harsh and angular, that belies my interest in jazz.I do what i can to straighten up the metaphors and leave the rest alone. Too many people have man-handled Lorca for me to be interested in his stuff, but Pedro Salinas was The Man. That is my pursuit. He does real poetry. How does one put that into a schema? I cannot answer that one yet, after twenty years of trying. |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 2/18/2007 6:01 AM |
i'm fairly certain i used one of his poems in a challenge. s. |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 2/18/2007 6:02 AM |
Salinas that is, not Gongora (who i probably won't read). |
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Who says my poems are poems?
These poems are not poems.
When you can understand this,
then we can begin to speak of poetry.
this is a true, this is not a poem yet it is, the mere notion of it being a defined entity must be discarded, in the same manner when we talk about poetry the confinement of the concept/idea by the word itself must be ignored, then we can be to speak of poetry. more than that we can begin to speak about poetry. the question what is a poem like what is poetry is no longer valid and anyone who asks that question must be stopped before they walk further down that road to nowhere. (talking heads) kat1 |
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| | | From: gypsy | Sent: 7/11/2008 2:17 AM |
Would any definition be possible by ruling out what it is not? We can shortcut in that we know it has to be words, so it is symbollic, to start with. If it were only one word, it would not be a poem. 'Om', come on! "I am" a maybe? haha 'Buzz,' only if you are high as a kite. Katone, when you say when we talk about poetry the confinement of the concept/idea by the word itself must be ignored, are you saying "the word is never the thing." (Babba? What's the name of the philosopher who stopped talking for forty years because of this)? So, how do you begin to talk of poetry? (Ryokan's philosophy and observations in short lines). I liked the one about looking back at the mountain. gypsy |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 7/11/2008 6:10 AM |
Who says my poems are poems?
These poems are not poems.
amazing. that quote there remarkably applies to you, katone. |
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i am simply talking about the old chestnut of defining poetry. the word "poetry" cant be pinned down to what it is or what it isn't but must include the question what can it be and a genealogical approach in order for us to derive meaning and understanding. does that make sense? kat1 |
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| | | From: _susan_ | Sent: 8/4/2008 5:13 AM |
hahahaha nothing you say makes sense. hahaha |
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oh thank you, then my work is done, almost, does that make sense? ahaha |
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| | | From: gypsy | Sent: 8/4/2008 11:58 PM |
Genialogical approach as in having reference stemming from the same writer? When nothing a well-known poet writes makes sense, I imagine it is like a famous painter who can charge a lot of money for an empty canvas, or maybe one with a dot of ink the size of a pínhead in the middle of an empty canvas. Am I close? hahhaha Riddlethreadcurious |
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