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Metacriticism : Irreproducible Results for things we don't especially like
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Recommend  Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOrthoRhombic1  (Original Message)Sent: 4/27/2008 1:58 PM
I was going to put this in the Irreproducible Results thread, but I think that should be reserved for things we actually like. This one I don’t like, or at least I don’t think I do. I’m of mixed feelings about it, actually. I don’t like gimmicks masquerading about and marketed as “Art”. I am firmly with Ferlinghetti when he complains about “especially museum directors” who seem to claim to know more about “truth” or “beauty” than anyone else. So on the one hand, I find this poem gimmiky (from The Descent of Alette by Alice Notley). But I must be in error as the following reviewer tells me:

“What may first strike the reader as a typographical gimmick quickly becomes part of the poem's force, as the reader is drawn through the dank caverns of Notley's subterranean ‘world of souls’ on a dire mission: the assassination of a charismatic and seemingly omnipotent tyrant, in whose name the subway dwellers are imprisoned underground.”

I confess I have yet to be bowled over by its force, but hey! the story sounds like it should be good. The review describes The Descent of Alette as an epic, and not only that, but an epic written from a female perspective, and that does interest me—at least enough to try and find out more. I’m curious to know how other people respond to this poetry. This is an excerpt of a much longer poem, I remind you.

From The Descent of Alette ["I stood waiting"]
by Alice Notley

“I stood waiting" "for some minutes" "in this very" "alive darkness—"
"the air so vibrant," "the trees awake" "There were flowers," "mixed
grasses," "growing lower" "in the dark," "& I was relieved" "to be
near them" "after so much time" "where nothing grew" "Then" "I heard a

song" "faint & blurred," "a slow song" "I heard it" "as if through
walls" "As if" "there were a room" "next to where I stood" "& someone,"
"a man," "sang inside of it" "The tune was sad," "& attracting"
"I approached it—" "where its source seemed to be—" "& it moved away

from me" "just a" "short distance" "This happened twice" "Then I
understood" "I was to follow it:" "& so it led me—" "through deep
woods" "& clearings," "for" "a long while" "The voice sang" "the
same melody" "over" "& over" "mournful" "& intimate" "in a language"

"I didn't recognize—" "or didn't think I did:" "it was hard to" "hear
the words—" "Till at last we" "reached a meadow" "where the song"
"ceased to sound," "pale & empty" "with trees around it" "Then I
sank to" "the ground" "& fell asleep for" "a long time" "But when I

awoke" "of course" "it was dark"
 
All the double-quotes do for me is force me to read one phrase, stop, read another, stop again, read another, maybe enjamb the next two lines, etc. This is not the way I would normally read a poem, and I don’t particularly enjoy the feel of it. It’s kind of a monotonous phrase-stop-phrase parsing. But strip away the quotes and the words are a lot more interesting, it seems to me—and I’ve no idea how Alice would want the lines to be laid out in the absence of the quote marks, so I’ll just stick to the line structure given above:

I stood waiting for some minutes in this very alive darkness—
the air so vibrant, the trees awake. There were flowers, mixed
grasses, growing lower in the dark, & I was relieved to be
near them after so much time where nothing grew  Then I heard a

song faint & blurred, a slow song  I heard it as if through
walls  As if there were a room next to where I stood & someone,
a man, sang inside of it  The tune was sad, & attracting
I approached it—where the source seemed to be—& it moved away

from me just a short distance  This happened twice  Then I
understood I was to follow it: & so it led me—through deep
woods & clearings, for a long while the voice sang the
same melody over and over mournful & intimate in a language

I didn’t recognize—or didn’t think I did: it was hard to hear
the words—Till at last we reached a meadow where the song
ceased to sound, pale & empty with trees around it  Then I
sank to the ground & fell asleep for a long time  But when I

awoke of course it was dark
 
I question—or at least, would argue about—some of the punctuation, but sometimes that too adds an additional way to read some of the lines. I find myself wondering if she intends this to be read in more than one way (I mean simultaneously, not in a superficial vs deep kind of way).


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Recommend  Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: _susan_Sent: 4/28/2008 4:07 AM
i liked it better without the quotes.  glad you transposed it.
to me, the quotation marks were an artificial attempt to do something "different."
it wasn't.  different.
 
like going into a museum and seeing something you are 'supposed' to like,
just because______(fill in the blank) but coming away from it - well - disgusted.
 
who says the experts are right?  i can't imagine reading an entire 'epic' in this manner.
my eyes would glaze over.
 
btw, ortho - the other thread did say you could post bad, good or great.
and it's up for comment.  well, i guess we don't have to 'love' them.
hate's good too.
 
 
let's start a thread, call it:  poems we love which boggle the mind.
they may be bad, good, or great poems.  your call.  i like funny myself.
read 'em and post, or read 'em and weep - whatever the case may be.
if you post in another language, please provide the translation too.  thanks.

this one certainly boggles the mind - but not in a good way for me.


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Recommend  Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOrthoRhombic1Sent: 4/29/2008 7:41 AM
I debated whether to put this in the original thread, but it seemed like everyone was putting up things that, though mind boggling in one way or another, were poems people liked. I'm not sure I like this one. I know I don't like the quotation marks.

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Recommend  Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: _susan_Sent: 4/30/2008 1:23 AM
something made me look on Metacriticism for this.  don't know why.
i usually read all Message Boards at once.  so i wasn't fully aware.
but i'll provide a link to this later on our other thread.
 
s.

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Recommend  Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: _susan_Sent: 5/3/2008 7:24 PM

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Recommend  Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamekarasukokoroSent: 5/6/2008 1:07 AM
though i hardly ever venture into the scary metcrit woods, i'm glad i did this time. ortho the poem made me have the hiccups in its original state. with the annoying quote marks removed it really is quite lovely.
 
i conclude from this instance, just because some one is "known" doesn't mean they always know.
 
crow 

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Recommend  Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: _susan_Sent: 5/7/2008 6:11 AM
oh now where did Ortho disappear to -
i need his critique.
 
s.

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Recommend  Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOrthoRhombic1Sent: 5/7/2008 12:12 PM
I'm still around, susan. I just get busy now and then. The only time I can get online is usually in the middle of the night or early morning. I'm reading. I just haven't been able to comment much. I will though.

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Recommend  Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: gypsySent: 7/11/2008 6:15 AM
Ortho, you have a lot of patience.  I look at a page full of quotations and I am not likely to even begin to read it.  It is lovely without them!

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