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Reply
 Message 1 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301  (Original Message)Sent: 8/8/2008 5:10 PM
Certain resources chosen for states like Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Virginia upon further research, were not in favor of Dual Diagnosis Anonymous.  In fact these organizations were only in favor of complete sobriety including the advocation of members of their cult/organization actually throwing away their precribed medications. 
 
We WILL NOT be member of this type of dangerous idiocy.  I have seen more lives end because certain members of the recovey community convinced their sponsee's and fellows to stop taking their anti-depressant medication. 
 
These types of organizations will not in any way shape or form, be represented here, in fact, they will be shunned as the dangerous fanatical organizations that they are. 
 
Personally I am a strong proponent of Dual Diagnosis Anonymous and started a meeting which is still going strong in uptown San Diego and helping hundreds assuredly.  In particular, Dual Diagnosis Anonymous is a perfect example of a program that brings the basics of the spiritual program together with medical expertise; Integration!
 
Will continue to research for "level-headed" and "integrated" organizations that bind well with the glbtq community.  Unfortunately,  some states are lagging in resources and activity, further frustrating our cause. We will get there.
 
Thanks for your patience as we move through this process, and make the necessary changes needed as we mold this new project the way we want it.  Any input would be great!
 
Thanks again!
 
Brandon


First  Previous  2-14 of 14  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/8/2008 5:50 PM
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!  I don't know the statistics but, based sheerly on personal experience and contacts with other addicts, I have yet to met few - very few - sufferers who don't have something else going on to fuel whatever their addiction is. And coincidentally, one of my Detah Row inmates, for whatever reason, has taken an interest in my own recovery and, just this week, I wrote him about the problems associated with a dual diagnosis. I don't know who these people are who discredit the reality, even the possibility of dual diagnosis, but they're eliminating the chances of a full recovery. I'm gonna try to come up with some stats. To everyone, don't be conned into thinking that recovery is just eliminating the substance of addiction; if only it could be that simple!

Reply
 Message 3 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/8/2008 7:23 PM

Chris, & others,

The following is what I came across on what I thought was an accredited resource for Pennsylvania, Virginia, Vermont, etc.  Ater reading the following,  I was amazed and of course removed the icons from our "Meth Project" webpages. 

We do have a strong task with this new project.  It is one to assure the fringe and out of touch sources out there are not represented here!

So, if anyone came in touch with this resource while browsing the (still being developed) webpages of the "Meth Project" I am sorry.  This is not the sort of obscurity in the professional or the non-professional recovery community that we will ever represent.

 

The Dual-Diagnosis Drug Rehab Myth

A growing trend in the drug rehab field over the last decade or so is called either a dual diagnosis or co-occurring disorder. What this means is that people suffering from drug and alcohol addiction are also given mental health labels because of their symptoms and their corresponding treatments have been found to be more harmful than good.

Dual-diagnosisThe main problem with this is that probably every substance abuser on Earth displays symptoms of some disorder or another, which not only questions the validity of the disorder itself but also makes it more difficult for addicts to fully recover. Besides, there are no blood or urine tests to determine if someone has one of these diagnoses, and brain scans are only hypothetical as to what they're really looking at.

The difficulty stems from telling someone they have a brain disease as well as from the side effects of the drugs used in rehabs to treat the symptoms of the disorders. By definition, giving addicts more drugs might be considered a form of treatment, but it cannot be rehabilitation. In addition, the drugs often given to somebody include harmful substances such as antidepressants that carry heavy "Black Box" warnings, antipsychotics that cause diabetes among other things, and anti-anxiety drugs that are also very addictive and can throw someone into a psychosis if they suddenly stop taking them.

We continually get calls from individuals and family members who have been deceived by drug rehab programs into thinking that the issue was a dual diagnosis, yet many years later after several treatment attempts and several medications the problem still exists.

What we have found to be the case with most addicts is that if they are able to be completely detoxified and they get the necessary life skills to be productive and happy, then their new drug-free life will be free of the symptoms described in the mental health disorders.

Before you let another treatment center convince you that your loved one has a dual diagnosis or a co-occurring disorder, call us to find an effective drug rehab program that works. We recommend long-term, drug-free rehab programs that use a biophysical approach.

http://www.drug-alcohol-rehabs.org/dual-diagnosis.html


Reply
 Message 4 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/8/2008 8:55 PM
Glossary of Terms - Dual Diagnosis, Co-occurring Disorders.

Dual diagnosis refers to Co-occuring Disorders of Mental Health disorders and Substance Abuse disorders (alcohol and/or drug dependence or abuse).

Dual Diagnosis, and Dual/Multiple disorders profiles may include the following:

  1. Severe/major mental illness and a substance disorder(s)
  2. Substance disorder(s) and a personality disorder(s)
  3. Substance disorder(s), personality disorder(s) and substance induced acute symptoms that may require psychiatric care, i.e., hallucinations, depression, and other symptoms resulting from substance abuse or withdrawal.
  4. Substance abuse, mental illness, and organic syndromes in various combinations. Organic sydromes may be a result of substance abuse, or independent of substance abuse.
Persons are found across the mental health and substance abuse systems who have various combinations of these dual/multiple disorders.

They are also found outside of these systems of care, often among the homeless, and within the criminal justice system.

Acronyms that define various dual disorders:

MICAA: Mentally Ill, Chemical Abusers, and Addicted. Denotes the severely mentally ill chemical abuser. (Sciacca, 1991)

MISA: Mentally Ill Substance Abuser. May denote various combinations of dual disorders with or without severe mental illness.

MIDAA*, This denotes the inclusion of Mental Illness, Drug Addiction and Alcoholism in various combinations as dual/multiple disorders.

CAMI: Chemical Abusing Mentally Ill. This denotes Chemical abuse or dependence as primary with personality disorders (but without severe mental illness). (Sciacca,1991).

CAMI, With substance induced psychotic episodes: Same as CAMI with induced acute symptoms. (Sciacca,1991)

Reference: Sciacca, K. "An Integrated Treatment Approach for Severely Mentally Ill Individuals with Substance Disorders" New Directions for Mental Health Services, Jossey Bass Publ. Summer 1991,#50.

*MIDAA and logo are registered trademarks of Kathleen Sciacca and Sciacca Comprehensive Service Development for MIDAA.


Reply
 Message 5 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/8/2008 8:57 PM
Dual Diagnosis

Dual diagnosis occurs when someone has both a mental disorder and an alcohol or drug problem. These conditions occur together frequently. In particular, alcohol and drug problems tend to occur with

Sometimes the mental problem occurs first. This can lead people to use alcohol or drugs that make them feel better temporarily. Sometimes the substance abuse occurs first. Over time, that can lead to emotional and mental problems.

To get better, someone with a dual diagnosis must treat both conditions. First, the person must go for a period of time without using alcohol or drugs. This is called detoxification. The next step is rehabilitation for the substance problem and treatment for the mental disorder. This step might include medicines, support groups and talk therapy.

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Reply
 Message 6 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/8/2008 10:12 PM
Chris,
 
Thank you for these resources

Reply
 Message 7 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/9/2008 9:24 PM
Dual Diagnosis: A Cautionary Note
The Danger of 'Pills Only' Psychiatric Treatment
 

Our recent two-part series about the problems and the proposed solutions of dually diagnosed patients, prompted the following letter from a visitor to the About Alcoholism / Substance Abuse site.

I have enjoyed much of the discussion of "dual diagnosis," but I would like to sound a warning bell about the new eagerness of physicians to find treatable (read 'treatable with pills') psychiatric "diseases" in alcoholics, addicts, and related individuals.

Dual Diagnosis

The Problem
Those with severe mental disorders and substance abuse problems can fall through the diagnosis cracks.

The Solution
Even when diagnosed correctly, proper treatment is not always available.

More Information
Links to internet resources about dual diagnosis.


It is certainly true that many addicted and nonaddicted persons can and do benefit from involvement with appropriate psychiatric attention, and we need to stress here the word "appropriate" as it applies to psychiatric treatment. The fields of medicine and addictive phenomena have often in the past had a mutually troubled relationship for reasons well known to all of us on both sides, and some aspects of this long problematic relationship may continue to date.

The economic reality is that organized medicine has lost control of the addictions field and all the fees and revenues they gained from it. In the past, the family physician, the drying out farm, the "specialist" in alcoholism wielding Valium and the other medications have all played a prominent and profitable role in the addictions.

More recently, these medical players have been shouldered aside by psychiatrists, and more recently yet, the psychiatrists have been shouldered aside by the addiction counselors. Only a few short years ago, physicians -- including psychiatrists -- made enormous amounts of money by being the physician of record in all manner of addiction treatment centers.

Surprise! A New Interest Develops

Most recently, addiction counselors have displaced the psychiatrist as the treatment manager of choice for the addiction itself, and internal medicine experts have replaced the psychiatrist as the medical manager of the addicted persons' medical problems.

Setting aside the question of whether there was ever any solid reason for psychiatrists to be active on addiction treatment units in the past, it has become clear that there is now no more room for the psychiatrist to offer expensive "services" on the inpatient units, and no more room for the psychiatrists to offer similarly high revenue "services" on the outpatient and follow-up phases of addiction treatment itself. Physicians in general, and psychiatrists in particular have additionally lost immense amounts of money as HMOs have cut into their personal profits.

But wait! These physicians have now announced a new-found interest in the diagnosis and treatment of "dual diagnosis," "co-existing" psychiatric disease in recovering people. And the "treatment" for this newly found problem may begin simultaneously with the treatment of the primary addiction, at which point of course no one really has much realistic chance of being able to determine how much of an addicted person's distress is part of the addiction itself and how much is part of some concurrent psychiatric disease.

Different Brand of Alcoholics?

And as we have observed, an important portion of the discussion in psychiatric circles is on the question of "How soon can diagnosis and treatment of psychiatric disease be begun when treating an addicted person for their addiction?"

OTHER RESOURCES

Abuse/Incest Support
Your Guide: Nancy Burnett

Attention Deficit Disorder
Guide: Bob Seay

Bipolar Disorder
Guide: Kimberly Bailey

Depression
Guide: Nancy Schimelpfening

Mental Health Resources
Guide: Leonard Holmes

Panic/Anxiety Disorders
Guide: Cathleen Henning

Substance Abuse
Guide: Leslie Franzblau

Perhaps we should not be surprised to find that these psychiatric treatment services, and the fees that can be charged for these services, will be started earlier and earlier in the addiction treatment phase when it is especially difficult, perhaps impossible, to tell where the addiction ends and a psychiatric disorder begins. After all, what newly detoxed alcoholic is not depressed, anxious, etc etc etc?

Alcoholics are alcoholics, and those we see these days are probably pretty much unchanged now from those that have filled the addiction treatment units for years. If these dual diagnosis ideas are so powerfully important and such a major issue in the treatment of addictions, why didn't the psychiatrists who were so active on treatment units five, ten, fifteen, or even twenty years ago come up with these ideas then?

I suspect that the answer is that they didn't need the revenue that stems from dual diagnosis work then, but they surely do need it now that they have been appropriately displaced by treatment teams of an addictions counselor and an internal medicine specialist.

How many perfectly normal people are currently receiving psychiatric "treatment," primarily pills dispensed on a five or ten minute visit every month or two, that are completely unneeded? What sort of "psychiatric treatment" consists of these pills and these pills only? How many perfectly normal people have we heard announce that they have "a chemical imbalance" that was diagnosed in the earliest stages of their recovery?

"Pills Only" Treatment?

It seems to me that very often, this lucrative treatment for a co-existing psychiatric problem goes on and on and on, and is perhaps still continuing months and years later without adequate re-evaluation to see if the office visits, the consultations, and the pills -- all of which earn the psychiatrist a fee, of course -- are still necessary and still remain the treatment of choice.

HMOs themselves represent another pressure in favor of "pills only" psychiatric treatment for addicted and for other persons simply because "pills only" treatment is cheaper to the HMOs than are other forms of counseling and therapy aimed at helping people to make positive changes in their own lives.

Are "pills only" really the treatment of choice and to be preferred over individual counseling, couples' counseling, group therapy, assertion training, and all the other valuable treatment techniques available to all of us if appropriate?

Beware of Trends, Fads

It is absolutely, certainly, undeniably, crystal clear that many recovering people, just like many nonrecovering people, can and do benefit from, and even require appropriate psychiatric services, and it would be cruel to even hint that these people should not be benefitting from the availability of various forms of counseling, therapies, medications, and other forms of treatment?

My reading of Bill Wilson's words on this point is that he specifically advocated psychiatric or psychologic treatment where appropriate and it is certainly true that AA's publications include a pamphlet indicating that some recovering people can and do need special treatment, including medication. But it is reasonable to ask whether or not everyone who is receiving medication is being treated with the right form of psychiatric treatment, with the right medicine for the right period of time for the right reasons?

It is wise to guard against the possibility that addicts of all varieties and physicians in all their varieties might work against each other and might sometimes even use each other for their own purposes?

It wise to ask ourselves what protections we need to put into place to increase our chances of getting the best possible medical care, including psychiatric and psychological care. In medicine, as in all areas, we need especially to be beware of trends, fads, and the hottest "NEW! NEW! NEW!" product, service, or discovery, and the current "dual diagnosis" material needs to be included in this scrutiny?


Reply
 Message 8 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/9/2008 9:28 PM
By_Illness

Dual Diagnosis and Integrated Treatment of Mental Illness and Substance Abuse Disorder

What are dual diagnosis services?

Dual diagnosis services are treatments for people who suffer from co-occurring disorders -- mental illness and substance abuse. Research has strongly indicated that to recover fully, a consumer with co-occurring disorder needs treatment for both problems -- focusing on one does not ensure the other will go away. Dual diagnosis services integrate assistance for each condition, helping people recover from both in one setting, at the same time.

Dual diagnosis services include different types of assistance that go beyond standard therapy or medication: assertive outreach, job and housing assistance, family counseling, even money and relationship management. The personalized treatment is viewed as long-term and can be begun at whatever stage of recovery the consumer is in. Positivity, hope and optimism are at the foundation of integrated treatment.

How often do people with severe mental illnesses also experience a co-occurring substance abuse problem?

There is a lack of information on the numbers of people with co-occurring disorders, but research has shown the disorders are very common. According to reports published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA):

  • Roughly 50 percent of individuals with severe mental disorders are affected by substance abuse.
  • Thirty-seven percent of alcohol abusers and 53 percent of drug abusers also have at least one serious mental illness.
  • Of all people diagnosed as mentally ill, 29 percent abuse either alcohol or drugs.

The best data available on the prevalence of co-occurring disorders are derived from two major surveys: the Epidemiologic Catchment Area (ECA) Survey (administered 1980-1984), and the National Comorbidity Survey (NCS), administered between 1990 and 1992.

Results of the NCS and the ECA Survey indicate high prevalence rates for co-occurring substance abuse disorders and mental disorders, as well as the increased risk for people with either a substance abuse disorder or mental disorder for developing a co-occurring disorder. For example, the NCS found that:

  • 42.7 percent of individuals with a 12-month addictive disorder had at least one 12-month mental disorder.
  • 14.7 percent of individuals with a 12-month mental disorder had at least one 12-month addictive disorder.

The ECA Survey found that individuals with severe mental disorders were at significant risk for developing a substance use disorder during their lifetime. Specifically:

  • 47 percent of individuals with schizophrenia also had a substance abuse disorder (more than four times as likely as the general population).
  • 61 percent of individuals with bipolar disorder also had a substance abuse disorder (more than five times as likely as the general population).

Continuing studies support these findings, that these disorders do appear to occur much more frequently then previously realized, and that appropriate integrated treatments must be developed.

What are the consequences of co-occurring severe mental illness and substance abuse?

For the consumer, the consequences are numerous and harsh. Persons with a co-occurring disorder have a statistically greater propensity for violence, medication noncompliance, and failure to respond to treatment than consumers with just substance abuse or a mental illness. These problems also extend out to these consumers�?families, friends and co-workers.

Purely healthwise, having a simultaneous mental illness and a substance abuse disorder frequently leads to overall poorer functioning and a greater chance of relapse. These consumers are in and out of hospitals and treatment programs without lasting success. People with dual diagnoses also tend to have tardive dyskinesia (TD) and physical illnesses more often than those with a single disorder, and they experience more episodes of psychosis. In addition, physicians often don’t recognize the presence of substance abuse disorders and mental disorders, especially in older adults.

Socially, people with mental illnesses often are susceptible to co-occurring disorders due to "downward drift." In other words, as a consequence of their mental illness they may find themselves living in marginal neighborhoods where drug use prevails. Having great difficulty developing social relationships, some people find themselves more easily accepted by groups whose social activity is based on drug use. Some may believe that an identity based on drug addiction is more acceptable than one based on mental illness.

Consumers with co-occurring disorders are also much more likely to be homeless or jailed. An estimated 50 percent of homeless adults with serious mental illnesses have a co-occurring substance abuse disorder. Meanwhile, 16% of jail and prison inmates are estimated to have severe mental and substance abuse disorders. Among detainees with mental disorders, 72 percent also have a co-occurring substance abuse disorder.

Consequences for society directly stem from the above. Just the back-and-forth treatment alone currently given to non-violent persons with dual diagnosis is costly. Moreover, violent or criminal consumers, no matter how unfairly afflicted, are dangerous and also costly. Those with co-occurring disorders are at high risk to contract AIDS, a disease that can affect society at large. Costs rise even higher when these persons, as those with co-occurring disorders have been shown to do, recycle through healthcare and criminal justice systems again and again. Without the establishment of more integrated treatment programs, the cycle will continue.

Why is an integrated approach to treating severe mental illnesses and substance abuse problems so important?

Despite much research that supports its success, integrated treatment is still not made widely available to consumers. Those who struggle both with serious mental illness and substance abuse face problems of enormous proportions. Mental health services tend not to be well prepared to deal with patients having both afflictions. Often only one of the two problems is identified. If both are recognized, the individual may bounce back and forth between services for mental illness and those for substance abuse, or they may be refused treatment by each of them. Fragmented and uncoordinated services create a service gap for persons with co-occurring disorders.

Providing appropriate, integrated services for these consumers will not only allow for their recovery and improved overall health, but can ameliorate the effects their disorders have on their family, friends and society at large. By helping these consumers stay in treatment, find housing and jobs, and develop better social skills and judgment, we can potentially begin to substantially diminish some of the most sinister and costly societal problems: crime, HIV/AIDS, domestic violence and more.

There is much evidence that integrated treatment can be effective. For example:

  • Individuals with a substance abuse disorder are more likely to receive treatment if they have a co-occurring mental disorder.
  • Research shows that when consumers with dual diagnosis successfully overcome alcohol abuse, their response to treatment improves remarkably.

With continued education on co-occurring disorders, hopefully, more treatments and better understanding are on the way.

What does effective integrated treatment entail?

Effective integrated treatment consists of the same health professionals, working in one setting, providing appropriate treatment for both mental health and substance abuse in a coordinated fashion. The caregivers see to it that interventions are bundled together; the consumers, therefore, receive consistent treatment, with no division between mental health or substance abuse assistance. The approach, philosophy and recommendations are seamless, and the need to consult with separate teams and programs is eliminated.

Integrated treatment also requires the recognition that substance abuse counseling and traditional mental health counseling are different approaches that must be reconciled to treat co-occurring disorders. It is not enough merely to teach relationship skills to a person with bipolar disorder. They must also learn to explore how to avoid the relationships that are intertwined with their substance abuse.

Providers should recognize that denial is an inherent part of the problem. Patients often do not have insight as to the seriousness and scope of the problem. Abstinence may be a goal of the program but should not be a precondition for entering treatment. If dually diagnosed clients do not fit into local Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and Narcotics Anonymous (NA) groups, special peer groups based on AA principles might be developed.

Clients with a dual diagnosis have to proceed at their own pace in treatment. An illness model of the problem should be used rather than a moralistic one. Providers need to convey understanding of how hard it is to end an addiction problem and give credit for any accomplishments. Attention should be given to social networks that can serve as important reinforcers. Clients should be given opportunities to socialize, have access to recreational activities, and develop peer relationships. Their families should be offered support and education, while learning not to react with guilt or blame but to learn to cope with two interacting illnesses.

What are the key factors in effective integrated treatment?

There are a number of key factors in an integrated treatment program.

Treatment must be approached in stages. First, a trust is established between the consumer and the caregiver. This helps motivate the consumer to learn the skills for actively controlling their illnesses and focus on goals. This helps keep the consumer on track, preventing relapse. Treatment can begin at any one of these stages; the program is tailored to the individual.

Assertive outreach has been shown to engage and retain clients at a high rate, while those that fail to include outreach lose clients. Therefore, effective programs, through intensive case management, meeting at the consumer’s residence, and other methods of developing a dependable relationship with the client, ensure that more consumers are consistently monitored and counseled.

Effective treatment includes motivational interventions, which, through education, support and counseling, help empower deeply demoralized clients to recognize the importance of their goals and illness self-management.

Of course, counseling is a fundamental component of dual diagnosis services. Counseling helps develop positive coping patterns, as well as promotes cognitive and behavioral skills. Counseling can be in the form of individual, group, or family therapy or a combination of these.

A consumer’s social support is critical. Their immediate environment has a direct impact on their choices and moods; therefore consumers need help strengthening positive relationships and jettisoning those that encourage negative behavior.

Effective integrated treatment programs view recovery as a long-term, community-based process, one that can take months or, more likely, years to undergo. Improvement is slow even with a consistent treatment program. However, such an approach prevents relapses and enhances a consumer’s gains.

To be effective, a dual diagnosis program must be comprehensive, taking into account a number of life’s aspects: stress management, social networks, jobs, housing and activities. These programs view substance abuse as intertwined with mental illness, not a separate issue, and therefore provide solutions to both illnesses together at the same time.

Finally, effective integrated treatment programs must contain elements of cultural sensitivity and competence to even lure consumers, much less retain them. Various groups such as African-Americans, homeless, women with children, Hispanics and others can benefit from services tailored to their particular racial and cultural needs.

Reviewed by Robert Drake, MD September 2003


Related Resources

About Medications
Information about medications used in the treatment of serious mental illnesses

Find Support
Learn more about the full spectrum of programs and services that NAMI provides across the country for people living with mental illnesses, and their families and loved ones.


Online Discussion

Living with Mental Illness & Substance Abuse
Find support, share knowledge, ask questions and meet people who've been there.


Mental Illness Discussion Groups
Dozens of online groups for consumers, parents, spouses, siblings, teens and more. Get connected and find support.


Related Links

Clinicaltrials.gov
Dual diagnosis research studies identified through the U.S. National Library of Medicine’s link to federally and privately funded studies worldwide.

Report To Congress on the Prevention and Treatment of Co-Occurring Substance Abuse Disorders and Mental Disorders
Report to Congress from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration on dual diagnoses.

The Dual Diagnosis Website
A web-based informational resource on co-occurring disorders.


Reply
 Message 9 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/9/2008 10:16 PM
Msg 7,8
 
Pretty good "objective" articles.  Furthermore, I will point out (based on personal experience) that anti-depressants did help me the first year or so of sobriety but they were continually pushed when I began to feel bad and wanted off of them.  It was personal choice to slowly wean off of these drugs.
 
Of course at the core of much of my depression was the "endocrine" illness that I had and have been recently cured of.
 
Everyone is an individual and when industries treat illness as if it was a cut and dried subject and the outcomes applicable in the same way to everyone under the same rules, we are in trouble.  I believe one of the many reasons we do not have more resolve in the disease or ailment of addiction or dual-diagnosis is because we have sharp divisions in our (generally speaking) minds concerning the ailment. 
 
Today, we have more objectivity coming into play as we have seen the "cut and dried" has only given us a small percentage of success with an epidemic shouting to those who think they've got it all figured out in all humility; They Don't!
 
Brandon

Reply
 Message 10 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/23/2008 4:53 AM
After 250-300 long and short form e-mails, and some exchanges between various organizations since the second week of July the project has shown right around a 3-4% return activity rate. 
 
Needless to say I have a forced optimistic view of this project thus far and will press forward with it partly because I could be the king of mules but more importantly because I believe without a doubt that our community deserves and needs a network to support those seeking recovery who maybe the only one in their crowd who may be of the sexual minority.
 
I believe that if faith based organizations work for you that's great but I will always stand for clinical objectivity as a viable source of rehabilitation.  I will always stand up to the idiocy of places like the Salvation Army who support homosexual conversion technique as part of their addiction rehabilitation process and who will not or does not support glbt causes.
 
My research and outreach to a variety of organizations has fallen on deaf ears and those organizations that cannot even grant the common courtesy of returning a simple e-mail will not be represented on this website.  They will be torn down off of our webpages.  Do these organizations fear the glbt community?  It is possible.  I have a hard time believing if we had introduced ourselves as a mainstream recovery website we would have had a much bigger turn out and a much bigger response. 
 
Bottom line, I will continue to push forward with the countless hours, AND I do mean countless hours of trying to research and correspond with affiliated organizations and through perserverance we will make this thing work.  YOU can help with this project by taking part.  Not one (I understand some of you have overbearing schedules) member of this website has offered a hand in this new project.  In fact, I doubt that 98 percent of the membership here even exists. 
 
Acknowledging the total failure of MSN to support their online groups, the site membership which at one point was well over 1000 have left.  We have set at 297 for months, and 3-4 members participate.  Another handful of you tell us that you still exist only when Chris or I jump up and down when we get tired of talking to the wind.  This is a public site.  You don't have to be a member to view the site or its posts.  Those of you who maintain your membership for the dailies that are posted, that's great!  This site does not exist for the sole purpose of sending dailies or posting news.  You can link up to resources, RSS feeds, what have you. 
 
So, let it be known that I am speaking in a general sense.  I am quite dissapointed in the membership here.  I did not start this website, to be a newsletter source or an RSS feed.  These are benefits of being a member.  This site was and continues to expect membership participation.  Most MSN groups or sites of the like demand at least one post from their membership every 30 days or your membership goes away.  No questions asked.  It used to be the requirement here, and I should consider it again.
 
Moreover folks, there are recovering meth addicts just like me out there, and even if you're not a meth head, you're probably an addict if you're a member here.  If each one of you can correspond with one organization that you are aware of or who meets in your area and introduce our group you will have made a difference that we can start building on.
 
I am honored that Kirk Grugel has joined as our Arizona state corresondent and Allison Biastock has joined as our Alaska state correspondent.  This project is going to take a-lot of hard work.  I cannot do it by myself! 
 
Think about contributing folks!  What you give, you always get in return.
 
Brandon
Site manager

Reply
 Message 11 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/23/2008 11:39 PM
Ya gotta love this  The following shows my message to this rather large organization, http://www.methresources.dreamhosters.com/wp/?p=61
 
You'll notice the message was sent July 27th, however, it has not even been released by the moderators yet  That would be as good as anyone of you sending in a message for posting and never have it post.
 
I'm a wonderin if everyone and their brother got involved with organizing drug rehabilitation organizations, got bored, and deserted their sites and organizations.  It's a lookin that way
 
New York's only resource much like about 85% of the rest of the states will have their icons removed from our webpages...
 
I think we will market GLBT resources directly and then from there, find the GLBT recovery groups.

Reply
 Message 12 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/24/2008 1:31 AM
Furthering my point, University of Wisconsin!

We couldn't find the page you're looking for!

We're sorry, the page that you attempted to reach does not seem to exist.


Reply
 Message 13 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameChrismac682Sent: 8/24/2008 1:55 AM
Maybe they moved it to Boise!

Reply
 Message 14 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBrandflake301Sent: 8/24/2008 6:01 AM
And hopefully not to the restrooms of the Boise airport

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