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| | From:  _MrWonder_ (Original Message) | Sent: 1/11/2008 10:04 PM |
What Is Water Baptism For? Water baptism is for a person who has been born again. The New Testament words "baptisma" and "baptizo" were not interpreted from the Greek text, but transliterated into English forms: "baptism" and "baptize." To "baptize" means to completely immerse. Those baptized by John the Baptist were completely immersed, as were those who believed in Jesus. Scripture tells us that there was always a body of water available, such as Jesus' own baptism (in the Jordan River) and the baptism of the Ethiopian (Acts 8:33). Those being baptized went into the water and were completely immersed. Water baptism symbolizes Christ's death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:14) and is a testimony of your commitment to the Lord. It takes place after you have believed, as with the believers at Pentecost (Acts 2:41) and Samaria (Acts 8:12); and with the Ethiopian (Acts 8:38), Paul (Acts 9:18), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15), the Philippian jailer (Acts 16:33), and the believers in Corinth (Acts 18:8) and Ephesus (Acts 19:5). Water baptism portrays your sins as being forgiven and cleansed. Your sins are forgiven when you confess them (1 John 1:9) and are cleansed by Jesus' shed blood (1 John 1:7). You are baptized to testify of that cleansing and forgiveness. Jesus had no sin. He was baptized to "fulfill righteousness." He identified Himself with wicked sinners through John the Baptist's message to the people of their need for repentance. Although Jesus was free of sin, His baptism pleased the Father (Matthew 3:17). This act of obedience set an example to all believers of their need for water baptism. As He identified with us in our sin, though He was sinless, even so we identify with Him in His righteousness, although we have no righteousness of our own. New believers are to be baptized by those who have been baptized themselves. Any believer can baptize any other believer. |
©2003 MrWonder. |
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| | | From: olegig | Sent: 1/14/2008 5:06 PM |
Cindy, On the face of it, I pretty much agree with what you said in #6. By the "Goldie Locks" treatment I did not mean what is too hard, too soft or just right, for these are feelings. I meant that when an interpretation is "just right" then it agrees with all the other body of scripture. |
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Just in case it is necessary... let me clarify something. I am not a hyper- dispensationalist... I am not even a dispensationalist. I don't claim a title of any kind. I am not an ist, ism, ite or anything else like that. A saved member of the Body of Christ. I am a Bible Believer. That is all. In Chirst, Cindy |
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As for forgiveness in your post 6, Cindy, if I offend my wife today, I ask her forgiveness even though she forgave me yesterday for whatever I did. In other words, God lives in eternity but WE live in time. As I sin, I also apologize to God, confess it to God, ask His cleansing and forgiveness, and grace not to repeat it. I like to keep our relationship pure and clean. But you may of course treat God however you think is best. I know I do too. |
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Mr Wonder, In other words, God lives in eternity but WE live in time. As I sin, I also apologize to God, confess it to God, ask His cleansing and forgiveness, and grace not to repeat it. ... ask His cleansing and forgiveness? Is this not asking God for something He has already given us? We are already forgiven and we are already cleansed... He couldn't have saved us in any other condition. He provided the cleansed forgiven position. We did nothing for it... It is a gift. 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; In my illustration of giving my kids their allowances. If I gave it to them on Friday... then they asked for it again on Monday, and Tuesday, and Wednesday, by Thursday I think I would be getting rather annoyed with them. I would have to ask them ... "What Part of "I already gave you your allowance don't you understand"? "Stop asking for what I have already given you." I have no problem whatsoever with talking to God about the things I do wrong that don't come under the heading of Love thy neighbor as thyself. Confessing something is to own up to something. When we Confess Christ as our saviour, we are "owning up" to Him. When we confess to God that we did something, we are owning up to that which we did. We might ask someone on this earth to forgive us... because they didn't die for our sins. We don't know if they have forgiven us or not until we ask them. We DO know that God has forgiven us because he told us so in His Word. In Christ, Cindy |
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Is this not asking God for something He has already given us? [Cindy] Do you oppose obedience to Scripture? "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." If I stub my toe today and say "Damn!" I ask God's cleansing and forgiveness because of it happening TODAY. To do otherwise is to be hardened in my own heart toward my own sin. Now if I continue asking for forgiveness and cleansing 20 years after I said "Damn!" and have already had that cleansing and forgiveness and have not repeated that sin for 20 years, THEN your analogy with your uncle is somewhat relevant. God is eternal. I live in time. I talk to Him as life happens. For example: Yesterday, I told God "I love you". Well guess what? I TOLD HIM AGAIN TODAY. By your logic I should have told Him 36 years ago and refuse to ever tell Him again. |
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Mr Wonder Do you oppose obedience to Scripture? "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Absolutely not.... I do not oppose obedience to Scripture. I am apposed to obeying instructions in Scripture, that we, the Body of Christ were not told to follow. Otherwise folks would be out building arks and thinking that would save them. Isn't it funny how folks think that is such a stupid statememt... yet will try to follow Israel's instructions without question when those instructions weren't given to them either. 1 John 1:9 was not written to the Body of Christ. It was written to Israel. They had conditional salvation... based on them enduring to the end. They had conditions that had to be met... if they did... God would. We do not have those conditions. In our case, God DID already in spite of what we might do. Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Again... look at these two verses. Paul said to the Body of Christ: Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Jesus said to the twelve: Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. If they did... God would.... if they didn't... God wouldn't. Their salvation was conditional. ...Now if I continue asking for forgiveness and cleansing 20 years after I said "Damn!" and have already had that cleansing and forgiveness... So you are counting the word "Damn" as a sin... and you don't think Chirst died for that sin providing you with forgiveness for it. Or at least you don't think he died for it until you do it and asked him for forgiveness for it? Did Christ not know that one day you would say that word? Did Christ not know each and every sin that he became?What if you said it one day, didn't even realize you said it, and never asked for forgiveness for it. Are you doomed forever? 2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Are you reconciled to God or not? God says you are. Is God imputing your trespasses unto you, or not? God says He isn't. The sin issue is gone. God was in Christ and reconciled the world. For example: Yesterday, I told God "I love you". Well guess what? I TOLD HIM AGAIN TODAY. You are comparing apples with oranges. Telling God you love him is not the same as asking Him to forgive you for something he has already forgiven you for by Christ's death on the cross. When you said "Damn" couldn't you have just said, "Sorry Lord, I will try to do better without asking for the forgivness you already have? Showing Him that you trust in what He said was accomplished at the cross. And also, I never said we shouldn't talk to Him, confess/own up to what we do, say we are sorry, tell Him we love Him and trust Him, or just simply have a conversation with Him. He does hear everything that we say to Him. In Christ Cindy |
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Sorry about the big print then little print, this font then that font... I try to get my posts consistant in both type and size but sometimes it just doesn't work out right. lol I do like the way the blue and green and black colors are used to show a difference between our words and someones elses. That makes it much easier to be clear about things we are saying and what someone else said that we are responding to. In Christ, Cindy |
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There's the problem. 1 John is written to Christians, meaning the Church, not Israel. |
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1 John was written to Israel. It was not written to the Body of Chirst for doctrine. Consider these verses from 1 John: 1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Mr Wonder... do you have an unction from the Holy One? Do you know all things? Do you not need any man to teach you? Remember these verses? Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. They are from the OT: Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Did God give the Body of Christ teachers? Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: If we had no need of teachers.... why did God give them to us? If the law was written in or inward parts and in our heart, why did God tell us to study? 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you claim 1 John 1:9 as your doctrine... do you also Claim 1 John 2:20 and 1 John 2:27? If you do, recite all 600+ laws included in the law of Moses and the Levitical requirements. Put down your Bible and recite it from beginning to end without looking. Can you do that? Is the law written in your inward parts and in your heart? It isn't written in mine. I have to study. I have to consider what Paul said if I want understanding in all things. 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. In Christ, Cindy |
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| | | From: olegig | Sent: 1/19/2008 3:31 AM |
Cindy, Very good post # 16. |
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I John is to the church, not Israel. Quoting it makes it all the more apparent. |
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Mr. Wonder When the Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus... How many could see the resurrected Jesus Christ in His Place in Heaven? Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. How do you make Acts 9:7 correspond to this verse from 1 John: 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; When Paul was saved those with him saw no man. Yet, 1 John 1:1 says... they have not only seen Him, but there hands have handled him. Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 1 John 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. Look at Chapter 2 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: What is an advocate? From the Webster's 1828 Dictionary: advocate AD'VOCATE, n. [L. advocatus, from advoco, to call for, to plead for; of ad and voco, to call. See Vocal.] 1. Advocate, in its primary sense, signifies, one who pleads the cause of another in a court of civil law. Hence, 2. One who pleads the cause of another before any tribunal or judicial court, as a barrister in the English courts. We say, a man is a learned lawyer and an able advocate. AD'VOCATE, v.t. To plead in favor of; to defend by argument, before a tribunal; to support or vindicate. Do we in the Body of Christ need an advocate? Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. We in the Body of Christ are already justified. Jesus Christ has already paid for our crimes, and we cannot be retried, we do not need an advocate. In view of the Scriptures posted in my previous post, and those posted in this one. If you do not yet see that 1 John was written to Israel, then ask yourself these two Questions. 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Ask yourself: Am I trying to keep the Commandments to gain or keep salvation? 1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. Ask yourself: Do I have that Unction from the Holy One and know all things? I have posted several Scripture references that show that the entire Book of 1 John is written unto Israel. Everything from Hebrews through Revelation is for Israel All Scripture in the Bible is for us, but not all of it contains instructions directly to us. 1 John dos NOT contain instructions to the Church the Body of Christ. In Christ, Cindy |
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1 John 1:1 says... they have not only seen Him, but there hands have handled him. John here refers to Himself and the other Apostles of Christ. Yes, need an Advocate, for Satan is the accuser of the brethren and accuses us day and night before the Father. The Lord Jesus is our Advocate against Satan. |
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I think I may be beginning to understand why you cannot see what I am trying to show you. Can you please give me a discription of "the Church" that you keep refering to? Who belongs to "the Church"? Do you consider the twelve apostles and the apostle paul to both be in the same church? Do you think that we, the Body of Christ, and the 8012+ members of the Church which was at Jersalem, to be in the same Church? In Christ Cindy |
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