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| | From:  _MrWonder_ (Original Message) | Sent: 1/11/2008 10:07 PM |
Baptism is Identification
The Lord Jesus went to John the Baptizer to be baptized of him. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance from sin. The Lord was not a sinner and did not need to be baptized. So why did He do it? Because He was identifying Himself with His own people. "He came unto His own and His own received Him not, but as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God--even to them that believe on His name." He was the Lamb slain from the world's foundation. He was the fulfillment of the Passover Lamb. As John said, "The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world." He partook of flesh and blood with His own, but without sin. He identified Himself with sinners and was the sinner's friend, though He was sinless. "For He hath made Him to be sin for us--(He) who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." He was in a sense baptized into the human condition when He was baptized in water, for He took on the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin. He bore our sins on the Cross, yet He was the spotless Lamb. He was no sinner but identified Himself with sinners. We are not saints in ourselves we identify ourselves with Him when we are baptized in water, for it signifies our death with Him on His Cross, our burial, and our resurrection with Him unto a new life of holiness unto the Lord. He became poor that we could become rich. He became sin that we could become the righteousness of God. He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon Him. We were healed by His stripes. Though no sinner, He joined with us and redeemed us. Though no saints, we joined with Him and received His righteousness. When He was baptized in water, He accepted me. When I was baptized in water, I accepted Him. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
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Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Where is the water? Our Circumcision is done without hands! Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: What is so hard about understanding that our Baptism is also a baptism done without hands? In Christ Cindy |
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He left the water baptism to others MOST OF THE TIME , although Paul himself baptized people occasionally. Yes Paul himself baptized at the beginning of his ministry. Paul got revelations from the Lord through out his ministry and stopped baptizing when It was revealed to him from the resurrected Jesus Christ to stop. Show me one, just one single Scripture where the Bible tells you that Paul left the Baptizing to others most of the time! Just one! But I am in Israel's covenant so I am spiritual Israel. How so? The old Covenant was with Israel. Israel has been cast away. End of old Covenant. The new Covenant doesn't start until the second coming. Under the old covenant Gentiles could only be blessed by blessing Israel. Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. How can you bless the Israel of God, when there is no Israel of God today. Israel was cast away before we were ever born. At least it was cast away before I was born... I don't suspect you were here at the time of Acts 28:28 either... if you were, you are an old, old, old ... did I say old ... person. Were the Ephesians in Ephesians 2 blessing Israel? NO, they were not. Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: I am as much an alien from the commonwealth of Israel (as it has been cast away until the second coming) as the Ephesians were, and just as much a stranger from the covenants of promise. That is what the mystery of Ephesians is all about. Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: How... By the gospel. Not by blessing Israel. Israel will be born again after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and the Body of Christ has been taken out of the way. It will be caught out and saved from the Wrath to come, raptured. Only then can the New Covenant begin. In Christ, Cindy I really tried to keep it short so you wouldn't lose my point in my many words. : ) |
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Paul got revelations from the Lord through out his ministry and stopped baptizing when It was revealed to him from the resurrected Jesus Christ to stop. Show me one, just one single Scripture where the Bible tells you that Paul left the Baptizing to others most of the time! Just one! SHOW ME where Christ told him to STOP and I will SURE show you the latter. |
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1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. Water Baptism was a Jewish requirement. Paul's early ministry was to the Jew and the Greek. Therefore the first time he was sent... Because of the remnant (Romans 11:5) he water baptized. 1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; Once that remnant was gathered, there was no further need for the sign (manifestation) of water baptism for the Jews. Israel fell, was cast away in Acts 28:28 and Paul went on to the far hence Gentiles. Do a search for yourself... where do you even find the word baptize, baptized, or baptizing, in any form in Paul's Prison epistles? The last time the word is used is in Gal 3:27. In Christ, Cindy |
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He did not tell Paul to stop. Paul made it clear his purpose was to preach, not baptize. But Christ did not tell him to stop. Paul baptized a few, but his main thrust was the teaching and preaching of the Gospel. 1 Cor. 1 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. Paul left the baptizing to others, for the most part. Unlike today's preachers, he let others participate. You notice that he said HIS EMPHASIS was preaching but he did not tell them to not be baptized in water, did he? If Christ had told Paul to quit baptizing, then Paul would have told the Corinthians at the same time to quit baptizing. But he did not. He named the people he baptized and then said he was glad he baptized no others lest people would gossip that he had baptized in his OWN name. The fact he did not tell them to quit is evidence he approved of it, but was proud to be blameless himself. I also recall him baptizing in Ephesus. |
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There was a baptism in Ephesus. But it wasn't a water baptism and Paul didn't do it the Spirit did. Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Keep in mind what John's Baptism was; Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: These twelve men had already been baptized unto John's baptism, water baptism. Let the verse say what it says. When they heard this.... they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. What happens when someone in this dispensation hears the gospel? Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. That baptism that took place at Ephesus with those twelve men was not a water baptism, it was a Spirit baptism. They had already been baptized in water. The only baptism that Paul mentions in Ephesians is the one baptism of Ephesians 4:5, which is the Spirit baptism. Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, and Colossians 2:12 Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Neither of these baptisms are water baptism. You won't find one single verse about water baptism in Paul prison epistles. In those letters he doesn't instruct anyone to be water baptized. Don't you think if it were required for their either their salvation or their walk with Christ that he would have given some sort of instructions, to someone, somewhere on how it was to be done? If you believe your Bible and Ephesians says ONE baptism, and your Bible tells you that baptism is BY THE SPIRIT, how can you possibly believe that there needs to be a second one done with water to accomplish something the Spirit can't? Paul left the baptizing to others, for the most part. Unlike today's preachers, he let others participate. Show me a verse that says Paul left the baptizing to others. In Christ, Cindy |
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It was water baptism at Ephesus. Paul did very little baptizing. Thus it was left to others. My pastor is the same way. He preaches. He lets others do the baptizing. |
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Wedge said; At least for us... Those in the Church at Jerusalem had to be water baptized, no question about that, their salvation depended on it. Not so! ! In Hebrews 11 we see that the writer shows that faith was the same for Abraham as it is for us today. | | | |
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Amen, Ckr4truth; water baptism has never saved anyone, but it is a commandment to every Christian. We either obey or we are walking in disobedience. |
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It's in one of Peter's epistles. |
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The comparison that I made in Post # 20, concerning the verses below is NVALID. ********** Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Keep in mind what John's Baptism was; Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ********** The Baptism in Matthew 28:19 is not John's baptism. It is yet future. I knew this, yet somehow I let that fact get lost in my brain while writing my response. However, those men in Acts 19 had already been baptized by John the Baptist, so I maintain that what I see in Acts 19 is the Baptism by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, not a second water baptism. But, just as I was going to other verses to prove it was the Spirit baptism, so also would someone have to go to other verses to prove it was water baptism. The context of those verses in Acts 19, just do not specify one way or the other. I will spend more time in study on this. Ckr4truth said: Wedge said; At least for us... Those in the Church at Jerusalem had to be water baptized, no question about that, their salvation depended on it. Not so! ! In Hebrews 11 we see that the writer shows that faith was the same for Abraham as it is for us today. I am not sure how you are connecting Hebrews 11 with baptism... perhaps you could give me some specific verses, so I can better understand your comment. Besides, Hebrews was written to Hebrews, and as I have said, those instructions are for those in the tribulation and they have nothing to do with the Church the Body of Christ... (They are for our learning, but not our direct instructions). By the time Hebrews 11 becomes, present tense, instead of the future tense as it is right now, the Body of Christ will have already been caught out of this world. I maintain, If the salvation of those at Jerusalem didn't depend on them being baptized into the name of Jesus Christ, why did Philip baptize the Ethiopian Eunuch? Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. They were getting ready for the tribulation that they thought was going to come in their lifetime, (but it didn't) and the setting up of the Kingdom over which Jesus Christ is the High Priest (which also didn't happen). Yet, but it will in the future. Doz said: Doesn't it equate the passing of the red sea and Noah's family in the ark to baptism? Is this the verse you were looking for? 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. They were saved by water.... but they didn't get wet. When we go back and read the scriptures pertaining to the baptism of the Israelites unto Moses, (Exodus 14) we will see that the Israelites didn't get wet... the Egyptians, however, did... they drowned. It is the same with Noah ... when we go back and read those Scriptures, (Genesis 7:16 and 21-22). Noah and his family stayed dry, while everyone else got wet and drowned. All this just emphasizes my point that thorough out time, in times past, now, and in the ages to come, there were, are and will be different baptisms. Some are with water and some are dry, without water. They all had to do with the identification (immersion) into something. Immersion into something doesn't always take water. In Exodus, the Israelites were baptized unto Moses and didn't get wet, but the Egyptians drowned. (Exodus 14: 16). In Genesis, Noah and his family were immersed in the ark, and didn't get wet, everyone else drowned. In John's baptism, which was with water, into the Name of Jesus Christ, they got wet (John 1:31), but not drowned. In our baptism, which is by the Spirit, into the Body of Christ, we don't get wet (1 Corinthians 12:13). In Christ, Cindy |
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I agree that it was by obeying God, which meant doing as God said to, and building the ark, is how Noah and his family were saved. If he hadn't built the ark, he and His family would have drowned along with everyone else. How is it then they say "water saved them?" They floated on top of the water... rather than being swept under by it. We could then reason that it was the ark that actually saved them, because without it, they would have had nothing to float in. I see something a little more being said in this verse. 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Several verse earlier in Genesis we find these verses. Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. I am going to make a comparison with these next verses then sum up where I am going with this. Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. I see a connection. Just as Noah was "saved by water", from the evil that was in the generation of people among which he walked, they all drowned; so were the Jews that believed on the Name of Jesus Christ, saved from the evil generation in which they walked, by identifying themselves with Jesus Christ. Water (baptism) also saved them by separating them from the evil generation in which they lived. Ok, now I am digressing from the study. Just for fun I am sharing a couple of little things, that have to do with Noah, but nothing to do with the topic of discussion, that I learned when I really started studying that I found amazing and so interesting: Noah didn't know what rain was. It had never rained on the earth. But when God told him that He was going to make it rain for 40 days and 40 nights, Noah didn't question it. God gave Noah the plans for building the ark... maybe because Noah didn't know how? Maybe a boat (ark) had never been built before? Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. Genesis 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. Also: As a child I was taught a little song about Noah and the ark... maybe you were taught that song too and can remember it better than I do. I can't remember all the words... But some went something like this... "And all the little animals two by two"... "The elephant, the rhino and the kangaroo"... imagine my eye opening moment when I learned that of the "Unclean" animals there were only two, one of each male and female. But of the "Clean" animals... there were fourteen, 7 or each, male and female. They did all enter two by two, but more than two of the "Clean" animals entered the ark. I found that so amazing. I was 40 + years old and had never seen that. That was one of many wow moments for me. Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. In Christ, Cindy The deleted post was mine... html marks showed up in the last post... I hope they are gone in this one... but if not... I am sorry, not sure why they show up sometimes and not others. |
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