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| From:  Teri1029 (Original Message) | Sent: 3/17/2008 2:59 AM |
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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: Welcome Teri029
I will cut and paste your message with your
questions if I may. I do not have all the answers I learn with every person and
every dog. Though I am decades older than Caesar I have a ton or respect for the
man He is a true observer of Canines and has loads of creative common
sense.
I will try not to write a book here and bore
you.
-----how do you take
dogs that seem aggressive, at least to other dogs, and get them to start
behaving non aggressive?
Prevention is the key here. I do
not let them get to level 10 I stop it at 1 They are not allowed to posture or
resource guard. I am dominant but not aggressive we equate
dominance with aggression- when used correctly it is not. When a new
client comes with a potential aggressive dog I watch the team usually it
is the person not the dog. I ask for the lead and work the dog to find its hot
button( what it loves loves loves) then transfer the message to the dog that
when you look at me focus on me and not the other dog you get your love. and I
make it worth their while believe me . It is about shaping the new behavior
and not letting past events creep in and tarnish your new behavior. It takes
work on the part of the handler usually with me because I pick up on subtle
signs 10 min at most.
It really is one dog
who is the culprit for me
Well if you let it go you will find
it will ultimately leak into the rest of your dogs and it will affect the
others. It needs to be addressed for harmony.
and I have basically
just accepted it and do not allow him to be with others
If you don't mind me saying if you
avoid this it will only get worse. If you are the true leader of your pack you
dictate the rules and stick to them. If he takes it upon himself to correct
another dog he is vying for lead position. That is not good. My dogs do not
walk out in front of me they walk beside or a tad behind. Once they
demonstrate balance I can be more lenient at this. Think about a marine
platoon you send a guy out at point and he has to search out the enemy so he
is on high alert nerves on edge ready to fire. That is what we do to our dogs
when we let them walk in front we give them the message they are in
charge.
Please don't think that
if push came to shove that my dogs would not support me if I were in trouble.
But I am the one who decides who comes on the property and who must be
accepted. My pack makes it easy for me because they are all balanced they
ignore a new dog and the dog gets to slowly osmos without being forced into a
situation that they have to react to.
What type of collar and lead do you
use to walk your dog? What exercise does he get? What work does he do for you
to help you keep your position of leader? Working a dog ( my dogs are so
motivated they can not tell the difference between work and play )helps build
a bond between you and re enforces the fact that you are the
manager.
but even 1 of the
females seem to get into it with him..
It hard to explain, but he is very
insecure I sense.
You are
very likely right here most of the dogs that I work with are fear motivated.
That is why positive reinforcement of the behavior you want which eventually
extinguishes the non supported behavior works well with them. We don't keep
doing something if it gets attack. Ah Self confidence marvelous isn't
it?
So in a
nut shell when a client comes I walk the dog a bit to establish that I
have no fear or hesitation I bring out my most balanced dog ( an intact Male 5
yr old Kelpie) He plays with the ball and I make the new dog focus on me using
positive reinforcement and well timed corrections. Then another and another
until I have at least 5 or 6 out there. When I feel comfortable I let the new
dog drag a 30 foot lead line then they correct impolite behavior of the new
comer and we go for a long walk..........
Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 3:54
PM
Subject: Re: Welcome Teri029
Welcome
Teri029
Reply
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| From: jamestrd |
Hi terri,
it seems you follow
Cesar Millans philosophies... and utilize much of the same as
he..
I am curious though,
how do you take dogs
that seem aggressive, at least to other dogs, and get them to
start behaving non aggressive? It is defnitely an issue with the
TRD, and defnitely one I have some issues with.. It really is
one dog who is the culprit for me, and I have bascially just
accepted it and do not allow him to be with others.really just
one male, but even 1 of the females seem to get into it with
him..
It hard to explain, but he is very insecure I
sense.
He is not aggressive in a sense that he will seek
out the fight, but he can not handle approach by others, it
really just gets him wild.
I know ore info would be
needed, but im just curious as to how you would handle this
situation..
oh, and welcome aboard, nice ot have some new
faces and
insight.. | |
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I like the way you have broken that up and answerd . The one bit i find hard to explaine with out someone actualy seeing it for them selfs is how we give off the wrong signals. For example the majority of people tighten up the lead when another is near or even lifts their arm slightly , our heart rate quickens and our head goes up as we are waiting for the kick off . This is all the wrong things we do , rather that tighten n lift up i drop down to head level with my arm , with realy bad ones i have the lead on my belt . A dogs heart rate quickens as a lead gets tight and when we lift our heads to try and look more in controlle we are actualy giving the cue to the dog to go and protect. I try and explaine it to owners as in ... if they were in an agrument and someone dived forward to restrain them their natural reaction is to shout more or to stuggle to get away , if someone was to stand in front and talk calmly most even the worst people for fighting will back down as the eye contact has been broken , i find this workes the same for our 4 legged family.That tip was given to me by a night club bouncer and boy it workes . With the worst dogs i have had here 2 mastiffs , i used a board to break their focus then we moved on to a word as i did it as they did not respond to any stimulant like a toy or treats or any comand. We moved on to a clear board then just the comand and to my pleasure IT WORKED . well i say it worked actualy it was more that they becme controled rather than cured. The other method i used with a paticularly stubborn collie was a football rattle ( the kids u spin and it makes a fast clicking sound ) He stopped his dive on the spot and looked at what i was doing , this allowed the other dog to pass and the next session the other dog was turned round and walked with us side by side , the collie had not even noticed .He was not truly aggressive he was fustrated , once he learn agility he became even better and now can be let off the lead and walked side by side with any dog.I guess with the collie it needed to work as a collie does not make a lap dog does it. I have lots of wierd little methods but do use the baisics with most and that workes fine. |
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I will try to offer more on his behavior.
As I have said, he is not really the seek out fight type.He does get along with 1 of my females, and all of my adults have been raised together. it wasn't until about 15 months old, that he started to turnn. I also sense he had a very negative experience before I got him ,which was at 4 months old.
the 1 female that he will have some scraps with, and normally she seems to start it, is 1 of similar age in which he grew up with, so I sense there is some dynamics there and hierarchy struggles.
The other female is older, and is the 1 dog he can be with.
He does not like puppies and will hurt them, no doubt in mind..
if I let my other male with, who is very balanced, he will not seek out to fight him, but will growl if he comes near, and then"fend " him off by approaching him and growling, but will not chase him down in anyway. He does not do this with any dog, but he can not handle being approached..he is very dominant and teritorial this way.
instances that have caused the fights between the males, is when there was prey and females invloved. if ThaLaw the probelm dog, growls at any of the females, the other male will attack him. This i understand.
if he growls or corrects the red female, she will go at him,not holding back and a fight will ensue.
So I sense there is pack insticnt/struggles, as he does accept certain dogs. he has also accidentally been loose with a rehome TRD I have, and no battle happened, much to my surprise.
for this reason, I do accept there is a certain energy r dynamic the dog maintains with some, defnitely with me, and Iis why I feel he is not really "aggressive" but is confused, frustrated and fearful at times.
he does relax in certian situations, but not in others.
In one instance, he got loose on me some time back. I went out to look for him and when i returned home, he was walking down the street with a guy walking his female.
I panicked a little, and ran to them, apologized to the guy, and calle dThalaw back to the property. he came, but the funny thing was he walking a distance of about 6 feet form them and did nothing.
I asked the guy if there was any aggression and he said "no, hes fine.She can hold her own"
When I train and walk with him, groom and give affection more, he defnitely chnages some, but unfortunately, I just can not do this for him as much as I would like.
Even in my kennel, he will growl at others, but when i work with him, he seems to forget any are there. They are in their cages at this point.
he gets plenty of run time, to the tune of 2-4 hours a day, and he uses it constructively, and sometimes destructively.he will run for an hour strait sometimes..
I know I am one source of his troubles, but the problem is, I have a hard time changing the dynamics with him..
I would love to say they are 1 big happy family and let them all together, but the situation remains, and I must only allow them together in combinations that work.
James |
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Sounds like you have a dog there that is reacting more than is agressive .Good that you aint just throwing him in and recognise diff situations. |
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I agree with you He sounds more fear based than
truly aggressive but a bite hurts whether it is aggressive by fear or dominance.
As you have seen he was ok not restrained but usually that only lasts so long
without the proper re enforcement. Almost all intact males start to exhibit
signs of testosterone about that age even the female can get funny. Just because
they were ok when young does not mean that will hold true through their adult
life. If you body block your dog does he give to you? So say he was staring at
her and you body blocked would he relax or look around you at her? Try real hard
in the next time to not let a fight happen as he will or she will get a mad on
and that is really hard not impossible to work with better to not have it
happen. Limit the time they are loose together short spurts keep exercise
managed like walks or you are on a down you get the toy now you are on a down
and you get the toy back and forth helping to develop SELF discipline that
is usually a learned trait with practice it gets better. I down the whole pack
then let one have a toy and go around the bunch. I also do it with food. I have
them all sit around me the quietest one gets the food first I toss or hand feed
while the others look they all get their turn and know it. It is a work in
progress that never ends.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:19
AM
Subject: Re: to james trd
to james
trd
Reply
|
|
| From: jamestrd |
I will try to offer more on his
behavior.
As I have said, he is not really the seek out
fight type.He does get along with 1 of my females, and all of my
adults have been raised together. it wasn't until about 15
months old, that he started to turnn. I also sense he had a very
negative experience before I got him ,which was at 4 months
old.
the 1 female that he will have some scraps with, and
normally she seems to start it, is 1 of similar age in which he
grew up with, so I sense there is some dynamics there and
hierarchy struggles.
The other female is older, and is
the 1 dog he can be with.
He does not like puppies and
will hurt them, no doubt in mind..
if I let my other male
with, who is very balanced, he will not seek out to fight him,
but will growl if he comes near, and then"fend " him off by
approaching him and growling, but will not chase him down in
anyway. He does not do this with any dog, but he can not handle
being approached..he is very dominant and teritorial this
way.
instances that have caused the fights between the
males, is when there was prey and females invloved. if ThaLaw
the probelm dog, growls at any of the females, the other male
will attack him. This i understand.
if he growls or corrects
the red female, she will go at him,not holding back and a fight
will ensue.
So I sense there is pack insticnt/struggles,
as he does accept certain dogs. he has also accidentally been
loose with a rehome TRD I have, and no battle happened, much to
my surprise.
for this reason, I do accept there is a
certain energy r dynamic the dog maintains with some, defnitely
with me, and Iis why I feel he is not really "aggressive" but is
confused, frustrated and fearful at times.
he does relax
in certian situations, but not in others.
In one
instance, he got loose on me some time back. I went out to look
for him and when i returned home, he was walking down the street
with a guy walking his female.
I panicked a little, and
ran to them, apologized to the guy, and calle dThalaw back to
the property. he came, but the funny thing was he walking a
distance of about 6 feet form them and did nothing.
I asked
the guy if there was any aggression and he said "no, hes
fine.She can hold her own"
When I train and walk with
him, groom and give affection more, he defnitely chnages some,
but unfortunately, I just can not do this for him as much as I
would like.
Even in my kennel, he will growl at others,
but when i work with him, he seems to forget any are there. They
are in their cages at this point.
he gets plenty of run
time, to the tune of 2-4 hours a day, and he uses it
constructively, and sometimes destructively.he will run for an
hour strait sometimes..
I know I am one source of his
troubles, but the problem is, I have a hard time changing the
dynamics with him..
I would love to say they are 1 big
happy family and let them all together, but the situation
remains, and I must only allow them together in combinations
that
work.
James | |
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